AK & CN bears

[dantana]

I do have another question for you guys and gals that have hunted either big bears up north.  I have been doing some penetration tests with all my 35s and my 45 WM shooting thru one gallon oil jugs with 5/8" plywood stacked in between the jugs.  Give me an idea the diameter and about size of a 1000-1200# shoulder bone?  And how thick would his shoulder meat be before you get to his vitals? And if the shoulder bone was lying on the ground could you break thru it with an axe?  Give me an idea?? Or a photo.
 
Below is 265 gr. Cast Performance for 45WM.
 

[Dand]

I'm no expert except that I live in Ak  Bear country.  Generally manage to avoid them - never shot one.  I'll be surprised if you get much of an answer. Most folks don't drag the meat or bones home.  And REALLY big bears like you mention aren't as common as one might think.  A lot of the troublesome bears are younger smaller bears that don't have sense to avoid humans or are forced into human areas.  On a float trip in Togiak a couple years ago, we saw something like 15 bears. The biggest ones would scoot away ASAP while younger smaller ones would stand there like they didn't know what to do.  Had to nearly hit one in the head with a thrown rock to get him to leave.  As far as how thick the "meat" is will be related to time of year you see them. In spring and summer they are much skinnier than as fall comes on.  Then they lay on the fat, and the truly big bears REALLY put on the fat unless they are in poor health.  A looong time ago I worked at a fish counting project.  We had weirs, towers, and fishwheels. Bears kept trashing the weir.  The boss and his helper staked out the weir one night and saw what they thought was a black bear wrecking the weir.  So they shot it.  It turned out to be a very dark small sow brownie - maybe 250-300 pounds.  Once it was dead (.338 mag 2 shots) the helper who carried a 357 decided to shoot the bear in the neck from I think about 20 yards to check penetration [I wasn't there when they shot].  He used standard 158 jacketed 357 ammo (1973 vintage).  There was at most about 4- 5 inches of really dense neck muscle plus the skin and hair.  We found the bullet up against the neck vertebrae with NO apparent damage to them.  The bullet mushroomed a little. I know loads and bullets have come a long way since then but I'd say something way more powerful is desirable if you have the choice. In 45 cal I'd think if you could go to 300 grn would be better - I don't know what the 45 WM can handle.


One thing, they can take a lot of shock.  The one successful hunt I was on my buddy shot a small brownie sow w a 7mm Rem Mag and 175 gr Nosler Partitions at about 170 yards. He did a behind the shoulder shot.  We heard the bullet smack, she spun around biting the spot then ran kind of toward us then into thick brush -REALLY fast.  She never went down. She didn't go far - 50 yds but it took us 2 days to find her - little nerve wracking walking back to back in the alders.



 I don't really follow my own advice that well - I carry a 41 magnum with 265 gr Corbons, Buffalo Bore or Federal Cast Core (250 gr) - and hope I never need to use it.  Oh and I think the boss and helper got in quite a bit of trouble for shooting that sow. At least she didn't have cubs. 


hope this helps.
check out the Alaska Dispatch online news paper.  They have been running some bear stuff.  A recent report on the kids in the outdoor school who got chewed up last summer concluded that they hadn't trained well, didn't have bear spray readily at hand and didn't follow the little training they'd had.


Don't discount bear spray it has been working for a lot of folks - but you need to practice to know what it will do.  Get the inert practice cans - the 1 time I've practiced with the real thing my face and lips tingled the rest of the day.

[corbanzo]

Dand I like that.... so I'm gonna use it...  I'm no expert, except that I live in alaska bear country...

First of all shooting through plastic and wood and paper and all that crap is dandy... but it doesn't reflect anatomy at all.

Second of all, if you do hit a large bone, it is going to shatter, and that is going to absorb a LOT of energy and your bullet won't be doing much after that.  Especially out of a .45WM.

Next point - if you do shoot a big bear in the shoulder with a .45WM, or anything else for that matter, you are going to have a pissed of bear with a broken shoulder.  - Which can still kill you without a half a seconds discussion.  Thinking of any round going through a shoulder and hitting vitals is dumb.  It's one or the other.  I'm trying to break the shoulder, and then I finish him off --- or I'm trying to hit the vitals and kill him. (In a hunting sense)

From the sounds of it you are just talking about wasting time for yourself not a real situation you plan to be in.

I've drawn on bears and luckily haven't had to shoot any in defense, but let me tell you where I aim. - At the bear.  That's right, there is no, aim for the shoulder or the brain or the heart or the whatever else.  In that situation the only place to aim is dead center mass, because you are most likely to hit something. 

Now since you did mention hunting....  Your shoulder shot with a pistol is a bad idea.  A large caliber magnum rifle, yes, you can break the living $%&^ out of the shoulder and anchor him then kill him. 

Can you break a rib and go through vitals with that round?  Yes you can.  That's the shot you want. 

Go and look up some anatomy diagrams.  A bear ain't a deer.