Author Topic: 35 remington reamed to 356 win (Read 1303 times)

revbc · « **on:** April 10, 2012, 12:13:30 PM »

Thought I would share some pics of my ream job. Looks like it turned out ok, haven't shot it yet. I tried to setup all the suggested methods, just don't have the tooling. So this is a hand ream job from start to finish.

You just have to be slow and steady.

Many, many thanks to Dinny for supplying the brass. Mine hasn't made it yet.

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2012, 01:41:45 PM »

Nice job Bobby! Let us know how it shoots

revbc · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2012, 05:32:14 PM »

Question for the experts. I reamed this barrel to exactly flush to -.0005 below for the rim cut. Rifle locks up fine with the brass. However, my 190 gr. ranch dog bullet specs call for a oal of 2.450. At that length the last grease groove is exposed and it jams in the rifling good and tight. I have to seat it to about 2.319 to get it off the rifling, bullet looks pretty deep in the case.

Would I need to order a throat reamer? I don't think another .001-.002 deeper cut on the rim is going to make that much difference. I like the rim cut as shallow as possible to deter FTF's.

What you think is going on? The reamer from 4D has a short throat?

petemi · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2012, 11:05:16 PM »

Bobby, George cut mine with the same reamer. Case head is flush and it chambers 200 gr. round nose and pointed jacketed bullets fine. I don't do a lot with cast bullets, but it would seem to me that last grease groove ought to be in the case, not roaming around collecting dirt.

Pete

bikerbeans · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2012, 01:27:17 AM »

Bobby,

It is interesting that Ranch Dog would give you a COL that has a grease groove exposed. I would look into the data and/or call them and see what is up. If the longer COL is correct but you have to seat the bullet deeper to stay of the rifing then the powder data you have for the long COL isn't valid. IMO, long throats are good and Fred rents the 358 Reamer for $26, but I would verify it is a 35 cal rifle reamer, not a 38 cal pistol reamer.

BTW, ya gotta luv a boolit named Ranch Dog.

BB

dave29 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2012, 07:09:29 AM »

I wish people would stop posting about the .356 Winchester. I'm gonna have to find me a .35 Rem barrel and make me one before long.

gunther66 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 11, 2012, 08:25:52 AM »

Dave, Quit lusting and just do it! You won't look back. G66

revbc · « **Reply #7 on:** April 11, 2012, 10:48:59 AM »

BB,

I will follow up with them. The diagram that comes with the data on their site doesn't have the groove exposed. However, with the bullet in the case at the spec length it is exposed.

Bobby

Dinny · « **Reply #8 on:** April 11, 2012, 10:54:28 AM »

Bobby,
Did I measure something incorrectly when I assembled that dummy round?

Thanks, Dinny

EDIT: I just assembled another one double-checking my measurements. Same results...

I would think it's fine seated slightly deeper, may be that he just went with a middle-of-the-road length for good measures.

revbc · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2012, 11:31:25 AM »

Here's the data. And no, Dinny it was spot on. The issue is I am having to go to about 2.319 for it not to touch the rifling. Bullet looks real deep in the case. I checked your case length, it also was dead on.

The ogive is kinda fat on the RD bullet, but I haven't had this much difference in the casull or 357 maxi.

Dinny · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2012, 11:53:52 AM »

Bobby,
I see the problem now. I just seated one to that length and the case mouth is nearing the forward taper of the bullet. I don't see where you could get reliable neck tension with it seated that deep. I'm not too sure if this is a chamber or bullet issue. I'll ask a 'smith, if you wanna ask RD.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=contact_us

Thanks, Dinny

revbc · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2012, 12:34:57 PM »

I asked about it on their website. We will see. Dinny, did you try to chamber a round in your barrel at that length, 2.450?

Dinny · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2012, 12:48:07 PM »

Give me a few minutes to load another one to 2.450" and I'll let you know. The wife's 'a gripin, it may be later tonight.

Thanks, Dinny

revbc · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2012, 12:49:23 PM »

Thanks..............Do not upset the lady of the house

Got church at 7 anyhow.

Dinny · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2012, 04:53:39 PM »

Bobby,
I'm certain I have made some sort of mistake somewhere in my calculations and measurements. In FL sized .356 WW brass trimmed to 2.005", the dummy round doesn't chamber until I get a COAL of 2.400" In FL sized .358 Win brass trimmed to 2.005", the dummy round doesn't chamber until a COAL of 2.382". Most unusual that these are different numbers but I double checked them both for consistency.

My chamber was cut and throated using a dummy round that had a 200gr Barnes TTSX seated. Me thinks you may have to have your throat length increased ever so slightly.

Thanks, Dinny

revbc · « **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:19:16 PM »

Gonna order some 220 gr speers and see how they do. I have some 180 speers for my maxi, but she's real jealous of them.

I could live with the 2.400 or even 2.382, but 2.319 is a good ways off. Now my measurement may not be exact.

Dinny · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:25:40 PM »

Quote from: revbc on April 11, 2012, 05:19:16 PM

Gonna order some 220 gr speers and see how they do. I have some 180 speers for my maxi, but she's real jealous of them.

I firmly believe that a person could do whatever they wanted with just those two bullets alone in a .356 Winnie.

Thanks, Dinny

petemi · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2012, 10:20:37 PM »

Quote from: -Dinny on April 11, 2012, 04:53:39 PM

My chamber was cut and throated using a dummy round that had a 200gr Barnes TTSX seated. Me thinks you may have to have your throat length increased ever so slightly.

Thanks, Dinny

Quote from: revbc on April 10, 2012, 05:32:14 PM

However, my 190 gr. ranch dog bullet specs call for a oal of 2.450. At that length the last grease groove is exposed and it jams in the rifling good and tight. I have to seat it to about 2.319 to get it off the rifling, bullet looks pretty deep in the case.

Dinny and Bobby, if it were mine, I don't think I'd mess with the throat. I'm not working with you guys and perhaps am missing something. It seems to me, from reading this thread, the problem is caused by a poorly designed bullet, and not a shallow throat. I'd try other bullets first. Just my two cents.

Pete

Dinny · « **Reply #18 on:** April 12, 2012, 05:04:18 AM »

Pete,
That was my initial though too, but after trying it in my chamber, I see where lengthening the throat would be beneficial. This bullet is only 190gr, being all lead it's likely to be shorter than many other bullets. If he's having COAL issues now, he'll likely have more problems later even with jacketed bullets. A throat that short will also cause pressures to rise too fast and that in itself will be problematic.

There's one aspect of this I have no opinion on - the reamer. I haven't seen it used and have no idea how long of a throat it cuts all by itself.

Bobby,
You have a new email in your Inbox.

Thanks, Dinny

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2012, 05:15:27 AM »

Go easy on the throating with the .358" throater, it doesn't take much to get to where you need to be. Also make sure the test round has negligible runout, if the bullet is seated with runout it will seem to take more reaming than is actually necessary, don't ask how I know that!

Tim

Dinny · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2012, 05:20:18 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on April 12, 2012, 05:15:27 AM

Go easy on the throating with the .358" throater, it doesn't take much to get to where you need to be. Also make sure the test round has negligible runout, if the bullet is seated with runout it will seem to take more reaming than is actually necessary, don't ask how I know that!

Tim

That's good to know, I never thought about that before.

Thanks, Dinny

revbc · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2012, 04:33:29 AM »

Dinny,

200 gr Hornady's have plenty of room in the throat. Seated them to the cannulure with plenty of room to the rifling. May work with my Ranch Dogs a little more before trying to throat it. I have a friend here in Louisiana that has a throater.

Goin to the range to shoot my 2 bullets, can't wait

petemi · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2012, 05:39:59 AM »

Bobby, the Hornady 200 gr. SP Spire Point is what I'm loading and using now waiting for the Sierra Gameking 225 gr. SBT to come back into inventory. The Hornady has proven to be very flat shooting and accurate. I also bought the Hornady 180 gr. SSPB. I think I'll try them in the Maxis, and the .356/.358 and see what I get for accuracy and velocity. I'll let you know how I make out.

Pete

OldBob · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2012, 02:36:19 PM »

Bobby, is that current length having a tendency to pull the bullet or cause a sticking case when unloading a loaded round ? If not, I would be real tempted to try the bullet and throat as is......... remember, the old Schutzen shooters loaded the bullets into the lands, pre-engraving them to some extent and they darn sure got results . I don't think you will create any over pressure conditions with a lead bullet load.

revbc · « **Reply #24 on:** April 14, 2012, 04:37:54 PM »

OldBob,

Think I'm thinking like you are. I haven't loaded and shot any of my Ranch Dogs yet, just trying them out for fit. The 200 gr Hornady spire points touch the rifling about .020 (a guess, 2.217 oal from bullet ogive to rifling to be exact) below the cannelure, so they good

Gonna shoot some jacketed first and then work on my RD load. I'm gonna hold off doing any throating for now.

Bobby

petemi · « **Reply #25 on:** April 14, 2012, 11:27:43 PM »

Bobby, this is the bullet I'm waiting to try. My .308s love 165 - 168 gr. boat tails, so I'm thinking why wouldn't a chubby .308, the .356/358, like them too. We'll see.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/17657

Pete

revbc · « **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2012, 09:25:28 AM »

Pete,
I like em.

revbc · « **Reply #27 on:** April 16, 2012, 01:22:29 PM »

Greetings Bobby,

At 2.450" the first crimp groove should be exposed. The cartridge drawings do not provide 
bullet detail, only length detail, because of the size of the image. The chamber drawings 
provide complete detail.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #28 on:** April 16, 2012, 02:11:34 PM »

Quote from: revbc on April 16, 2012, 01:22:29 PM

Greetings Bobby,

At 2.450" the first crimp groove should be exposed. The cartridge drawings do not provide 
bullet detail, only length detail, because of the size of the image. The chamber drawings 
provide complete detail.

Bobby,
If that drawing is dimentionally accurate, at least in my case, the comments about grease grooves showing are simply a terminology issue.. Most cast bullets have BOTH crimp grooves and Grease grooves. What you have exposed is a crimping groove and thats 100% fine. Having a GREASE groove exposed will likely cause problems. At the very least is not desireable.

Crimping where you are (in the pic) as long as it fits in the chamber should be just fine. Seating a lead bullet into the rifling is different than a jacketed bullet. I will not say its just fine, but its not nearly as much a problem.

CW

revbc · « **Reply #29 on:** April 16, 2012, 02:18:36 PM »

CW,

I guess it's my lack of understanding. Dinny had only the first "crimp groove" exposed, that I took to be a grease groove (these tumble lube bullets I can't tell much difference).

So, one issue solved. Still don't think it will chamber at 2.450 oal. May give it another try later. The 200 gr hornadys are fine.