Author Topic: An Accurate load - or the MOST Accurate load ??? (Read 1205 times)

1armoured · « **on:** April 10, 2012, 08:22:47 PM »

How far do we go in establishing a load in a rifle ?
Do we try combinations of different;
Brass - type, weight and length, neck turned, uniformed primer pocket and flashhole
Powder – type and volume/weight
Primer – type
Projectile – type, weight
Seating
COAL
Etc etc
I load for 3 calibres, .22Hornet, .222 and .308 .
I'm no Benchrester, and I shoot sporting rifles.
I have my favourite MOA loads that I seem to have arrived at without being too anal,
but besides using good components, and good case prep, (without going overboard),
I don't get down to .1gr increments, try different primers, brass or powder, and too many seating depths.
If my load and projectile is good, then I'm good to go.
How far is too far to get a good load ?
cheers,
SS

DANNY-L · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2012, 01:56:24 AM »

I'm probably not alone but to me no matter how good of a group I get I try to get a better one. I think it's just the challenge of it.

shot1 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2012, 02:37:59 AM »

How far do we go in establishing a load in a rifle ?
Do we try combinations of different;
Brass - type, weight and length, neck turned, uniformed primer pocket and flashhole
Powder – type and volume/weight
Primer – type
Projectile – type, weight
Seating
COAL
Etc etc

To answer your question I need only one word. YES

The quest for accuracy is never ending.

jim36 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 11, 2012, 03:40:33 AM »

This post brings to mind what Jack Nickalos (sp?) said in one of his books. "After all, who is ever satisfied with their golf score." This applies to all of us when trying to shoot our best.
Jim...<")))><

necchi · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2012, 07:23:09 AM »

I think alot of it depends on the rifle at hand and of course the shooters goals.

I have factory rifles, that have factory spec chambers, they'll never be "Bench Gun" accurate but it is possible to squeeze smaller than MOA groups out of'm buy tweeking the variables at the loading bench.
And that's fun!

I try to get the best I can, but I'm not going to beat myself up.

1armoured · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2012, 03:37:16 PM »

Yeah,
I guess it also depends on a number of things.
Like your drive, and energy,
and your goal,
and the depth of pocket and size of wallet.

A box of 50 reloads, doesn't go far, with barrel warmers/sighters, and 5 shot groups,
and that's at least $25 down range for me, and I'm just on a pension,
and besides I'm lazy !!!
I also realise that one of the fixed variables in my shooting is my own ability in keeping those groups tight.

Sometimes I only manage 3 shot groups, to keep the costs down.
If the velocities are constant and they're touching at 100, I don't always see the need to put any more in there, ....and move on.

But there must be times when half a grain of powder, let alone .1gr, or 5 thou seating, or different neck bushings etc etc is not going to make any difference in average group size,
and at what cost ?
Unlimited spending and effort in reaching the goal ?
I don't know that I have specific goals, or budget, probably just satisfaction levels.
cheers,
SS

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2012, 05:54:51 AM »

I've had my current rifles for long enough to know what their favorites are, but that doesn't stop me from playing. I try to keep good records on my loads. Each and every one. My scopes stay set for that ONE load. When shooting a new load, as long as it hit the target and all go to pretty much the same point, cool! I'm not much of a 5 shot grouper. Don't see the reason. I don't shoot bench matches and no animals are gonna stand around for the 2nd let alone the 3rd shot.

So yeah, you can get as anal as ya want or you can get one that does what ya want and play with others over time. Who knows, ya might find something else. That's the fun of it..at least to me.

HWD

drdougrx · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2012, 02:55:07 AM »

I'm ALWAYS tinkering....I'm a TERRIBLE SHOT!!! I have a number of custom built rifles and everyone of them can shoot better than I can. I almost never shoot 1/2" groups .... ever. I look for accuracy....an inch or less...I try for better but never seem to get there. Hasn't effected my hunting very much...seem to always get game on the ground...an average of 1.4 shots per animals taken...and I've taken a variety.

This weekend it's time to mess with my 243 that has an ER Shaw 22" fluted barrel. I have a large quantity of 95gr Nosler partitions. I've loaded 6 rounds each of RL22, RL19, H4831sc, Varget and H414. Each at 0.5gr less than the published max. Will shoot six of each on a bull in 3 shot strings. Should be interesting....but we'll see....might be a winner in the bunch!

Like necchi said, this all for fun and I'm not going to beat myself up over it.

Buckskin · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2012, 03:32:01 AM »

I have 2 guns that right now are .6" shooters and 2 more that are .9" shooters. Sometimes I shoot better with them, sometimes worse, but that is what I would average them at. All of them have several dozen rounds of test loads, ladder loads, different powders, bullets, neck sizing, bumping shoulders, brass prep variations, etc waiting for a nice call day.... It will never end until I see one perfect hole, which will never happen... It's like a dog chasing his tail, won't catch it but he's enjoying himself.

Catfish · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2012, 02:45:21 PM »

It really depend on what the intended perpous of the loads are. My coyote loads for my AR are the only load I tried. I loaded 5 round and fired them. They come in just over .600 so I figuried that since they were for off hand shooting at running targets they were grouping far better than I could. For some of my other long range coyote gun I turn necks, fire form and then start loading ammo in lots of 3 untill I find the powder and primer that seem to do best with the bullet I`m useing, and then I`ll switch bullets and start all over. I play alot with seating depth and almost always start working up loads with the bullets jammed into the lands, and then back them out. That way the presure is going down insteat of up when I`ve found the max. charge I want to use.

tacklebury · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2012, 03:15:17 PM »

I have set a goal for myself to keep reloading to a fairly easy to follow task. I have 3 loads for 3 bullets for every caliber using 3 powders only. I currently load for 13 calibers and add about 1 a year. I use only Unique, Reloader7 and H110 for every load. I do make a few BP loads, but mainly just use full compressed loads, so not a lot of variability there. Thus far, I have found sub moa loads for every caliber using these three powders. Keeps my costs lower and space much more compact. I was recently given a few nearly full pounds by a buddy getting out of reloading, so I may play with some of them too, since free.

Buckskin · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2012, 03:20:31 PM »

Quote from: tacklebury on April 13, 2012, 03:15:17 PM

I have set a goal for myself to keep reloading to a fairly easy to follow task. I have 3 loads for 3 bullets for every caliber using 3 powders only. I currently load for 13 calibers and add about 1 a year. I use only Unique, Reloader7 and H110 for every load. I do make a few BP loads, but mainly just use full compressed loads, so not a lot of variability there. Thus far, I have found sub moa loads for every caliber using these three powders. Keeps my costs lower and space much more compact. I was recently given a few nearly full pounds by a buddy getting out of reloading, so I may play with some of them too, since free.

I can't imagine only using 3 powders for all of my reloading, actually I don't think it would be possible for me.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2012, 01:36:37 AM »

You can NEVER EVER find the MOST accurate load, unless your rifle consistently shoots every round into the same hole.

Failing that, for a sporting rifle, why bother?

I second the sentiments of 1armoured above.

Practice to a strong level of self-confidence in your capabilities with a "decent" accurate load (to each his own) and more importantly place your shot. Aim small, miss small. It works for me.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #13 on:** April 15, 2012, 05:22:48 AM »

I pick the bullet I want to use and then pick the powder best suited for the rifle. I've known a few guys that hunted with match bullets because that was the most accurate bullet in their rifles. To me that's azz backwards. I want enough accuracy for the hunt but the best terminal ballistics are more important to me.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #14 on:** April 15, 2012, 05:30:39 AM »

I like an inch shooter. But I think a 1 1/2 inch rifle is all that's necessary. I believe that if we spent more time practicing in the field and less at the bench trying to get another .145", we'd all be better shooters. I'm as guilty as anyone!

Land_Owner · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2012, 01:54:51 PM »

Quote from: Don Fischer on April 15, 2012, 05:30:39 AM

I believe that if we spent more time practicing in the field and less at the bench trying to get another .145", we'd all be better shooters. I'm as guilty as anyone!

Don...I disagree on principal. The time at the bench spent shooting is 100 X the number of shots taken in the field (if that is what you meant). At the bench I gain confidence in my equipment and my capabilities with that equipment before going afield. In the field, I emulate bench conditions (i.e. rock steady rest, within the practiced distance, controlled breathing, etc.) and shoot only when the game participates or else I don't shoot at all.

marked trail · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2012, 03:42:25 PM »

These are a few of my thoughts, regardless of the powder, primer, case manufacturer or projectile. There's an infinite amount of variables with just those.
A person can't tinker with ever component matrix.
The limits are found in looking at the ammunition you want to be able to fire in the rifle, and also what you want to obligate yourself to in the way of making dimensional corrections in your handloading process. The chamber should be able to accommodate just about any ammunition. The good news is that you may not see any difference in on-target performance. Some rifles, chambers and ammo will not show it. Tinkering with components can be endless. The main effect of "matching" ammo specs and chamber specs is ease in chambering; longer case life and less dimensional change firing to firing. Clean your used cases. Have the chamber brushed, polished and keep it clean!

Steve P · « **Reply #17 on:** April 18, 2012, 07:53:04 AM »

Perfection is the enemy of "good enough".

I load for over 60 calibers. Can you imagine the supplies I would have if I tried all the combinations to come up with the "most accurate" load for my gun? Some of them would have worn out barrels before I ever found nirvanah.

My silhouette guns are tested until I can consistently hit a half scale chicken at two hundred meters, off the bench, scoped. That is 2-3" group at 200 meters. Once I am there, that is "good enough".

My hunting guns are tested until I can hit the needed target at the most extreme range I am willing to shoot. Most of the heavier calibers that is MOA to 500 yards. Some of the slower or lighter ones that could be 200 or 300 yards.

Sometimes you fall into a trap of trying so many loads that you get lost because what was good on one day, is 2nd or third best on another day. Find a load that is "good enough" on one day, and then test the extremes. Hot, Cold, windy, calm, dry, wet, high elevation, low elevation. If your load is good enough at the extremes, it should be "good enough".

You can also research, test, research some more, and spend a lot of time in the books rather than at the loading bench or range. Most of my "good enough" loads are derivatives of book loads or someone elses load.

I don't need half inch groups on a deer at 200. Minute of Prarie Dog is good enough at any distance.

Just my nickles worth.

Steve

anweis · « **Reply #18 on:** April 18, 2012, 10:53:25 AM »

many years ago i was given a $50 Mosin Nagant rifle; i spent $1,000 in my obsession to make it shoot accurately. I did shoot 0.5-1" MOA consistently with that rifle, but i still feel like an idiot. In the end, it was still a mediocre rifle, ugly to boot. I could have bought a very nice rifle with that money.
Two years ago, i did. A Sako. With the first reloads it grouped at 0.75" I stopped right there, i sighted the rifle, and i am now spending the shooting budget on practicing and reloading for my practice shooting. I can hit clays off-hand at 150 and seated at 300 yards. I find a balance between handloaders' satisfaction and financial priorities. Of course i could try different powders, bullets, primers, cases, etc. But i would rather go hunting with the money. Besides, i really don't want to burn out the barrels on my rifles.

mdi · « **Reply #19 on:** April 20, 2012, 08:54:43 AM »

If you reached an acceptable accuracy, what would you do then? Stop trying? Load up a few hundred and ferget about it? I reload because I like to reload. If I find a load that produces acceptable accuracy (most of my guns are way more accurate than I am), I'll record that for future refrence and proceed with a different combination of components. Mebbe I'll find something more accurate, mebbe not, but I'll enjoy each round of testing...
I wouldn't mind developing a 1" @ 100 yd load for my Mosin Nagant!

3 feathers · « **Reply #20 on:** April 20, 2012, 04:06:05 PM »

I know a old timer that uses a 32 Winchester Special for all his deer and hog hunting. He usually kills 3-4 deer a year and a couple hogs. I bet his rifle won't shoot a 5" group but it doesn't keep him from killing his game every year.