heres a remington rifle question

[mrbigtexan]

why does remington insist on putting a pressure point on their barrels? its always in the stock.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know but there not the only one. Every ruger and winchester ive bought has had them too. I there put there to give me something to do.

[Swampman]

Because they shoot better that way as do most sporting weight rifles.

[Buckskin]

Because they shoot better that way as do most sporting weight rifles.

Sometimes... I am a Remington guy, but sometimes their rifles need a bit of work to get them to shoot well. I'm nearing the end game of a 7mm-08 mountian rifle that gave me fits when first purchased.  It was a plus 1.5 moa gun, which doesn't do it for me.  Free floated the barrel, thereby removing the horrible pressure point job that was done on it. Pillar bedded it and just today ordered a Timney to replace the x-mark pro or whatever they call that "improved" trigger of theirs... It is a shooter now and is well below a 1 moa gun.
 
In my opinion, that is all part of the fun of getting a new rifle, tweaking it and getting the most out of it.  Although I would prefer to drop them from 1 moa to .5 moa...

[Swampman]

The Mountain Rifles always give trouble.  The barrel is just too skinny.

[Buckskin]

Oddly I never give any thought to those non-standard 700s.  They are lighter, but much harder to shoot well.  If you hold them funny they are all over the place.

I really like the rifle now. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it,,, and it is a fine shooting rifle now with a great feel.  Primarily bought it for my son when he starts hunting next year.... Ok I wanted it...

[Lloyd Smale]

now thats some bunk! Ive owned probably 50 bolt action rifles from about every manufacture and have floated and bedded about all of them and have yet to find one that shot worse like that. Ive had them shoot about the same but never worse. Usually substantialy better. Im not expert on mountain guns either as the only one ive ever owned was a 280 that i had to sell to pay off a divorce. that gun had no problem shooting moa as have my model 7s, winchester featherweights and even the ultra light rugers ive owned with the exception of two 257 roberts ultralights. Ive had very little luck with any ruger in 257 though. Show me one custom rifle manufacture that uses pressure points on there stocks and ill eat that rifle. Or show me one bench rest gun or snipers rifle that isnt floated.  Thing is with removing the pressure point is that you about have to bed the gun at the same time to see any benifit and im sure thats the main reason most manufactures dont do it. It would cost them to much to bed every rifle they make. I would guess that putting that pressure point on a factory gun helps keep the barrled action in place a bit and is just a cheap way to get around bedding.   

Because they shoot better that way as do most sporting weight rifles.

[Buckskin]

a 1/4" might be stretching it a bit, maybe in a Sendero.  None the less they usually shoot well out of the box.  There was really no way my mountiain rifle had a chance to shoot well out of the box.  The pressure point was uneven with a big glob of glue from adhering the forend tip and the laminate stock was so soft that you really couldn't get the bolts to tighten evenly, and the PIO changed with every shot because of the thin barrel and poor stock bed.  I'm sure it would have shot better being floated only, but it's rock solid bedded now. Some probably would be angry at having to do so much work to a $900 gun to get it to shoot well, but I'm odd and like doing that stuff.  Would have done it even if it were a 1/2" gun, although wouldn't have touched it if were a 1/4" (if I could even shoot that well).

[Graybeard]

The Mountain Rifles always give trouble.  The barrel is just too skinny.

Shows how little you actually know about the Mountain Rifles. I've owned around 12-15 of them would have to do some thinking on it to figure out an exact number. I've owned a similar number of Model Seven rifles with skinny barrels.

Only one of the Mountain rifles needed any work other than setting trigger pull at 3 pounds to shoot good. I had a .30-06 that just didn't shoot right until I bedded the action. I did remove the pressure point and had to add it back it actually does help most times.

One of the Model Seven's an original 18.5" 7-08 never did better than about 1.5" and not always that until I tried Hornady Light Mag ammo and it shoots under an inch with that. All the rest of the both Mountain Rifles and Model Sevens shot three within an inch with loads they liked and seldom went over 1.5" with any decent load tried.

I'd certainly not call that giving trouble or barrel too skinny. It's not the diameter of the barrel that matters but how well it is made and bedded.

[Graybeard]

Some day a GBO member will show up down there in FL and ask him to demonstrate these remarkably accurate rifles and his shooting skills. That's gonna be a real interesting report when they tell us what happened. I'm pretty sure I know how it will go.

[jhm]

     Swampman as a OLD man who was a investor in a gun range in Michigan and owned a retail gunshop and range in Arkansas, all I can say is ( I HAVE HEARD THE WIND BLOW BEFORE )   Jim

[Lloyd Smale]

Ill give  you an amen Bill!!

Some day a GBO member will show up down there in FL and ask him to demonstrate these remarkably accurate rifles and his shooting skills. That's gonna be a real interesting report when they tell us what happened. I'm pretty sure I know how it will go.

[Swampman]

Typical 3 shot group using 180 grain Core-Lokts at 100 yards.

[Lloyd Smale]

well pal i about know i put more time and money into developing loads for a new rifle then about anyone here. I usually start load developement with at least 5 and usually closer to 10 differnt bullets and shoot them with at least 4 or 5 differnt powders and usually try at least 3 differnt primers. I will spend months at my range trying every combo of these components to find what a gun likes best. Ive been doing this for near 40 years and think ive got a pretty good grasp on handloading and what makes a rifle work. I do shoot 5 shot groups because over the years ive just seen to many times where a gun will shoot a lucky 3 shot group and then open up on the forth. When i claim a gun will shoot into an inch with a load that means it did it for 5 shots and at least did it 3 consecuative times. I want to know FOR SURE how well my gun shoots. Its the only way im confident with it. I know many guys who will go to the range shoot 3 shots and put them inside of an inch and pack up there gun and there box of factory ammo and go hunting. Not this guy! To me thats about like putting duck tape on a leaking radiator hose and taking off cross country. Ive said it before swampy. Pack up those 1/4 inch guns and fly on up here. If you can show me a half a dozen 1/4 inch shooting guns even for 3 shots that are remingtons using corelock ammo  and are right out of the box with now bedding or other accuracy work and ill reimburse you the plane fare. Ill feed you put you up and you can end up with a free vacation. If you cant do it then you will get a vacation for the cost of a plane ticket amd leave the gun of my choise here. Beer is on me too.

I've never had game stand for more than 3 shots.  If more people could shoot they'd tinker with their guns less trying to figure out why they can't shoot 1/4 MOA groups.

[Buckskin]

As I mentioned I don't consider 1" groups @ 100 yard to be very good.  It will kill a deer.  Feed a rifle what it likes.  Let Uncle Sam finish your rifle training and life is good.  Factory ammo is very hard to match much less beat.  That's wasn't the case 10 years ago.  These are the good ole days.

I'm with you on the 1", that is what I expect at a minimum for any scoped rifle of mine and will tweak that rifle/load until eternity to make it better.   But only someone who doesn't understand reloading would make a statement that factory ammo is hard to beat.  Find me one benchrest shooter who shoots off the shelf ammo, doesn't happen...

[Buckskin]

I've been reloading for about 45 years.  I started when I was less than 10 years old.  Have you shot any factory ammo lately?  I din't think so.  You can't teach an old dog new tricks when they haven't tried the new tricks.  I try speak only about things I've tried or actually done.  It's a good practice.

I always buy a few boxes of premium ammo when I get a new rifle, just to see how it shoots prior to ordering all the fixings for that caliber.  And to boot, I research and see what people have been having the best luck with as far as bullet type and weight for that rifle.  And I have never had a rifle shoot better with factory ammo that ammo that is finely tuned and matched to the rifle.  To say otherwise is foolish.  As I said, show me a BR shooter that uses factory ammo.  Why do you think that doesn't happen???
 
 
Just because you've reloaded since you were 10 doesn't mean a hill of beans.  I know a guy who has reloaded for about 40 years and knows nothing about making accurate ammo.  An example, he was telling me how you have to start with new brass and fire-form to the rifle to get accurate ammo - which is fine.  I then asked him how he resized his brass and he said " well, I full size them"...  No bumping, no neck sizing -just knock them back to factory size.

[George Foster]

I have learned in the past 55yrs+ of shooting to listen to myself about what is good and what is bad.  I will say that I don't care how long someone has reloaded or how many combinations they may try.  I have found for myself I can usually pick the best powder and bullet on the first try and load six different combinations of bullet and powder and have a load I am very satisfied with.  All my loads will shoot five shot groups of 1/2" or better having gone as small as 5/16" as long as I do my part. The long run average is probably 3/4" for all my five shot groups out of my various rifles. I also feel that three shot groups are a good indication of how a sporter rifle is going to shoot a load especially if you shoot two foulers and then six three shot groups. I have a great deal of respect for John Barness who I feel has probably forgotten more about rifles and loads than anyone on here including myself and he says the same thing about three shot groups.  I haven't done any four posistion shooting in years although I used to a great deal.  I have also found that it doesn't matter how accurate a rifle or and load is all bets are off in the field and I like to find a rest or at least be able to shoot from a sitting posistion.  About 20yrs I made two shots on deer at 225yds from offhand and killed them both with one shot kills back to back  but that was an exception and if I could have shot from any other posistion I would have. I would also say that I have never found any factory ammo as accurate as my handloads but others may.
 
These posts are fun to read but I view the majority of them as malarkey.

[George Foster]

To the question the OP asked since this thread got hijacked.  I once tried an experiment with a 243 CDL that I bought new.  I first tried loads with the stock as it came from the factory and then tried the same loads after I had it bedded and free floated.  After bedding and free floating it shot probably close to 100% better groups.

[Buckskin]

My apologies to the OP for this thread running off course. I think it's obvious who is believable here and you can sort through the posts for helpful advice and avoid the cowpies of exaggeration...  Remington makes a great rifle that is very friendly to modifications and improvements.  If it doesn't shoot as you would like with the pressure points there's an easy remedy.

[George Foster]

To the OP's original question once again, the reason Remington and other manufacturers put a pressure point in the barrel channel is for these reasons.  One is it is cheaper to manufacture the rifle that way and they will shoot reasonably fair groups in most cases.  The second reason is it is much cheaper to manufacture a rifle without having to put the work into it to properly bed it.  Most Remingtons and for that matter others will shoot three shot groups of between 1"-1-1/2" with the "Speed Bump" and factory loads, properly bedded they will shoot from 1/2" to 3/4" for three shot groups with factory loads.  Proper handloads will generally shoot 25 to 50% better groups.  I have shot quite a few three shot groups over the years with my handloads in my rifles of 1/8" to 5/16" groups.  I am the first to say it isn't nearly as commonplace as others may claim though.  I am referring to sporter weight rifles in my comments.  Heavy barreled rifles will generally shoot five shot groups of the same size as the three shot goups out of sporters.

[fastchicken]

I've been working at getting my Rem. 700 270 back to shooting the 3/4"-1" @100 it was before I removed the pressure point to float the barrel. I couldn't leave well enough alone and thought I'd get a better shooter by floating the barrel and ended up getting 1.5+" groups for my trouble.
 I glass bedding the action, no better, added the pressure point back and got better. Removed it again just to be sure and got worse so I've added the pressure point yet again and will be shooting this weekend. But I suspect it will be shooting better with the pressure point.
 

[Lloyd Smale]

well ill return to the point that NO custom gun maker uses a pressure point. You will never see a bench rest gun with a pressure point, you will never see a sniper rifle with a pressure point. . Accuracy is about consistant vibrations and barrel whip. If your barrel and load cause these vibrations to be exactly the same each time you will shoot small groups. If it takes pressure on your barrel to get it there theres something wrong with your gun or load. If it actually was a good way to get accuracy out of a gun dont you think that gunsmiths specializing in accuracy would use it? they will bed and float and square up actions and even lap barrels but none ive ever heard of will put a pressure point to get it there and if i bought one that did from a custom maker id sure be questioning the quality of his work. what it comes down to is that its a cheap way to avoid the hastle of bedding an action correctly to the stock. It is a cheap way to keep the barreled action from moving around.

[mrbigtexan]

well ill return to the point that NO custom gun maker uses a pressure point. You will never see a bench rest gun with a pressure point, you will never see a sniper rifle with a pressure point. . Accuracy is about consistant vibrations and barrel whip. If your barrel and load cause these vibrations to be exactly the same each time you will shoot small groups. If it takes pressure on your barrel to get it there theres something wrong with your gun or load. If it actually was a good way to get accuracy out of a gun dont you think that gunsmiths specializing in accuracy would use it? they will bed and float and square up actions and even lap barrels but none ive ever heard of will put a pressure point to get it there and if i bought one that did from a custom maker id sure be questioning the quality of his work. what it comes down to is that its a cheap way to avoid the hastle of bedding an action correctly to the stock. It is a cheap way to keep the barreled action from moving around.

thats kinda what i figured

[charles p]

Don't remove your pressure point until you have exhausted other cures.  Many Rem rifles are very accurate with the pressure point.  I have some both ways, and there isn't any difference that I can tell.  For sure I wouldn't touch a Model 7.  They seem to work very well as is.

[Brithunter]

well ill return to the point that NO custom gun maker uses a pressure point. You will never see a bench rest gun with a pressure point, you will never see a sniper rifle with a pressure point. . Accuracy is about consistant vibrations and barrel whip. If your barrel and load cause these vibrations to be exactly the same each time you will shoot small groups. If it takes pressure on your barrel to get it there theres something wrong with your gun or load. If it actually was a good way to get accuracy out of a gun dont you think that gunsmiths specializing in accuracy would use it? they will bed and float and square up actions and even lap barrels but none ive ever heard of will put a pressure point to get it there and if i bought one that did from a custom maker id sure be questioning the quality of his work. what it comes down to is that its a cheap way to avoid the hastle of bedding an action correctly to the stock. It is a cheap way to keep the barreled action from moving around.

thats kinda what i figured

   well what do you know:-








Guess what folks?


No floated barrel, no filler compound just careful hand fitting and a bedded barrel into the natural wood of the stock.





Yep and it shoots too. 130 Grn Hornady SP over H335 in Winchester 30-30 brass. yep it's a bolt action 30-30 full blown custom made to.  But wait nope it cannot be as we have already been told no custom maker builds like this  .


Sorry chaps but they do  .





Barrel channel fits like a glove.





Factory Win Silver Tip in magazine. The factory load did not shoot as well as the Hornady hand load I am sorry to say.

[Swampman]

Don't remove your pressure point until you have exhausted other cures.  Many Rem rifles are very accurate with the pressure point.  I have some both ways, and there isn't any difference that I can tell.  For sure I wouldn't touch a Model 7.  They seem to work very well as is.

Pretty smart advise....