Seems to be a lot of shootings lately

[Dand]

I don't want to stir up a hornets nest but it seems like there should be a serious discussion:
Seems to me lately there is a lot of news about crazy shootings, multiple victims, and the Martin case.
Is the press just emphasizing these a lot lately or is something else going on?  Maybe but I don't think we should dismiss it quickly on that basis.
So far I don't see that the widespread passage of CCW laws are being blamed a lot - some but not a lot.


I have to say if there is an upswing in these shootings, it alarms me. In addition to the very real tragedies of all involved, it fuels both sides of the gun debate.


Is anybody doing scientific review of these events and having a factual analysis of what is going on?


What should responsible gun users be doing to help?


I am a very avid shooter, reloader, hunter - not good but avid - and it just seems to me we should be trying to help w solutions.


Please no flames, lets discuss realistic solutions or things to try.

[mcwoodduck]

I think there are three reasons for the increase in shooting reported.
1) The Economy, with people out of work they get desperate and more crime is occuring.
2) The Media is focusing on the second Admendment and are turning the lens of the camera and reporting the shootings nationally that were once Local news.  Thye are going to make as much of a case out of it as possible to try to remove CCW laws.
3) With the economy getting worse and the increase reporting of crimes, more people are taking advantage of the CCW laws and more firearms are being carried. 

[yellowtail3]

pretty much what woodduck said.
 
And they were just waiting for the Trayvon/Zimmerman case. But it may be that narrative didn't play out quite as they'd hoped - we'll see at trial, if Z isn't intimidated into a plea - so I don't know how the gun-grab momentum will go. Many in press would like to see the that bandwagon get cranked up.
Me? I'll oppose the scoundrels at every turn.

[lakota]

Some whack job just shot his wife and 2 kids at a Cracker Barrel near here because the wife said she was leaving him. The wife 1 of the kids and the shooter are dead. I dont understand shooting any of them but really...why harm your own children?

[mcwoodduck]

Some whack job just shot his wife and 2 kids at a Cracker Barrel near here because the wife said she was leaving him. The wife 1 of the kids and the shooter are dead. I dont understand shooting any of them but really...why harm your own children?

Some egos will not allow their kids to be raised by others and they would rather see the kids dead than calling someone else Daddy or Mommy.  Twisted. 

[Dand]

I'm a very wobbly Christian at best but I can't help wonder if the steady erosion of the concept of the ideal Christian society, its basic rules and respect for other people and life contributes to the problem.


I wonder too if the increasingly graphic and saturation of  intense videos, movies, games, etc fuels the nihilist all-or-nothing attitude among some. 


But I do wish we could come up with some productive suggestions instead of being at the mercy of the anti- gun folks and their unacceptable solutions.


For one, in the case of that neighborhood watch guy - seems to me people in those positions should have some training for the work and with nonlethal means of defense.  Keep thinking if he had carried some sort of pepper spray a kid might still be alive and the whole nation a lot calmer.


I really think folks who carry concealed should take some training in the use of lethal force.  I did and I was deeply impressed with some of the information which had never occurred to me before and gave me plenty to think about.  Of course some of these wackos aren't capable of deep thought especially when their emotions go out of control.

[powderman]

I'm a very wobbly Christian at best but I can't help wonder if the steady erosion of the concept of the ideal Christian society, its basic rules and respect for other people and life contributes to the problem.

 
DAND. You just hit the nail square on the head. Too many folks without God in their lives. America closed the door to God in 1963, and opened another one wide for satan himself. POWDERMAN. 

[mcwoodduck]

I'm a very wobbly Christian at best but I can't help wonder if the steady erosion of the concept of the ideal Christian society, its basic rules and respect for other people and life contributes to the problem.


I wonder too if the increasingly graphic and saturation of  intense videos, movies, games, etc fuels the nihilist all-or-nothing attitude among some. 


But I do wish we could come up with some productive suggestions instead of being at the mercy of the anti- gun folks and their unacceptable solutions.


For one, in the case of that neighborhood watch guy - seems to me people in those positions should have some training for the work and with nonlethal means of defense.  Keep thinking if he had carried some sort of pepper spray a kid might still be alive and the whole nation a lot calmer.


I really think folks who carry concealed should take some training in the use of lethal force.  I did and I was deeply impressed with some of the information which had never occurred to me before and gave me plenty to think about.  Of course some of these wackos aren't capable of deep thought especially when their emotions go out of control.

The Comandment is Thou Shall NOT MURDER, not thou shall not kill.
Look in the bible.  After the Jews were givien the 10 commandments and were resettleing into modern day Isreal, God told them to kill everyone in Jerico.  The comandments were issued less than 50 years earlier. 
Do the commandments only apply to people of the same faith, Same tribe?   Clearly the Jews were allowed to Murder as they hung Kings and killed Prisoners.  Now I am not advocating killing any one of a different faith, or killing people of different tribes.
But the common tennants of our country and of Christianity are to be secure in your self.  That others have no right to attack you, to rob you, or to murder you.  And you have every right to fight back with in the law. 
Turn the other check only applied to insults, a slap.  Not a punch.
The Gangs have created a higher murder rate and any little slight or DIS is now a death fued.  but with these people roaming the streets and "Banging" - Dealing drugs, stealing, extortion, killing snitches, and other crimes you would be right to fear for your life and end the problem.  The school house knock down, fights over, now shake hands, no longer applies.

[ironglow]

I think there are three reasons for the increase in shooting reported.
1) The Economy, with people out of work they get desperate and more crime is occuring.
2) The Media is focusing on the second Admendment and are turning the lens of the camera and reporting the shootings nationally that were once Local news.  Thye are going to make as much of a case out of it as possible to try to remove CCW laws.
3) With the economy getting worse and the increase reporting of crimes, more people are taking advantage of the CCW laws and more firearms are being carried.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
   Good points mcwooduck;
   Add to that ... we have a president who is promoting;
 
  A) Class warfare
 
  B) Racial tensions
 
  C) A.. men vs women atmosphere
 
  D) A big blowup with the TM vs GZ affair
 
  E) Unbeliever/believer faceoffs
 
  F) Economic policies which have not created an economic recovery, but slapped the hurting even harder with high gas prices.
 
        We could go on, but the whole Obama culture is sustained by an "us vs them" attitude..which easily leads to confrontations...

[mcwoodduck]

[quote author=ironglow link=topic=255719.msg1099505585#msg1099505585 
 
 
  F) Economic policies which have not created an economic recovery, but slapped the hurting even harder with high gas prices.
 
       
Those economic policies are designed NOT to help.  Everytnhing he has done is opposite to conventional wisdom and economic laws.  Either he is VERY stupid or he is Evil and trying to make people hurt.  The more problems, the more you need government.  Untill Government is the question and the answer.
 

[ironglow]

  Everything seems to point to a desire to destroy the United States...is this what he meant by "fundamentally  transform"..
 
      Hitler published his "Mein Kampf" in 1925..but nobody took him seriously before the very late 30s.

[mcwoodduck]

  Everything seems to point to a desire to destroy the United States...is this what he meant by "fundamentally  transform"..
 
      Hitler published his "Mein Kampf" in 1925..but nobody took him seriously before the very late 30s.

OH yea.
He wants to get rid of your choices and your freedoms. 

[powderman]

Those economic policies are designed NOT to help.  Everytnhing he has done is opposite to conventional wisdom and economic laws.  Either he is VERY stupid or he is Evil and trying to make people hurt. 

 
 
I see nothing but evil in the obamination, pure evil. POWDERMAN. 

[Dand]

I see some interesting thoughts here but NO suggestions of what we as citizens could do to try to make things better, less folks getting shot, getting the antis to leave us alone.


McWood - the commandment "commit no murder" is one that is burned into my mind.  When I was in Jr High, a neighbor was my reloading and shooting mentor.  He didn't hold regular jobs and my dad didn't care for the guy. After college I visited my mentor who had moved and he told me stories of his service as a medic in ww2 - but not a lot of detail except that it was pretty awful in France.  One Sunday watching a TV preacher, the preacher was reading from the Greek Bible and made the distinction of "...no murder..."  vs "...not kill..."  My friend all of a sudden was like a huge weight came off him and he seemed hugely relieved.  He explained that as a medic he wasn't supposed to be shooting but at times in France he would have been shot if he hadn't defended himself. He'd been troubled by it ever since - until that day. He grew up shooting squirrels in Ark so he was easily able to defend himself.  I kind of wonder if today we'd say he might have suffered some PTSD.




But getting back to my original endeavor...... what can we do to reduce the irresponsible shootings etc?  I help teach hunter safety and firearms safety and hope the lessons stick with the students.  But I sure wish there was some other solutions to get people thinking responsibly "out there".

[ratdog]

you don't hear as much about stabbings or strangling  or poisonings i guess they don't make as much noise.

[ironglow]

 From Dand;
   "I see some interesting thoughts here but NO suggestions of what we as citizens could do to try to make things better, less folks getting shot, getting the antis to leave us alone......
...But getting back to my original endeavor...... what can we do to reduce the irresponsible shootings etc?  I help teach hunter safety and firearms safety and hope the lessons stick with the students.  But I sure wish there was some other solutions to get people thinking responsibly "out there".
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   You already answered part of your question, when you said:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
     " I'm a very wobbly Christian at best but I can't help wonder if the steady erosion of the concept of the ideal Christian society, its basic rules and respect for other people and life contributes to the problem....
      ...I wonder too if the increasingly graphic and saturation of  intense videos, movies, games, etc fuels the nihilist all-or-nothing attitude among some"....
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
  I too am a hunter-safety instructor and I can see where attitudes are often quite firmly fixed, even before we see them.  I suspect however, that the worst of the lot in the general population.. do not show up at  hunter safety classes.
  While as non-influential persons, we have little power to change it, There are two things we can do something about as individuals, if we are sincerely concerned;
     
     1)  Get serious about your walk with Christ and get involved with a moving, active congregation.
 
     2)  Once firmly planted there, start a ministry of awareness, concerning the damage these nihilistict, self-centered videos and games are causing.  If  you are serious enough, others may well join in.
 
   Remember; " A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step"...(old English proverb)

[mcwoodduck]

     
   Remember; " A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step"...(old English proverb)

UH, Chairman Mao said that,
It is the doctrine that the leftist have used to move their points and the country to the left. 
Each step no matter how small moves you closer to your goal, all you have ot do is get on the path and start.
We need to have the same goal when it comes to Freedom and start the journey back.  We need to explain why the socialist / communist ideas do not work.  We can not believe that the teachers have taught thinking in school.  No one really wants to live under communism. 
Communism is like the joke about the desicion ot visit Hell and Heaven.  Hell loooks like a huge party and heaven looks boreing after you deside to go pick hell it is no longer the party and is Hell.  We need to show that the party is a farse.  Every time you can.
 

[ironglow]

     
   Remember; " A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step"...(old English proverb)

UH, Chairman Mao said that,
It is the doctrine that the leftist have used to move their points and the country to the left. 
Each step no matter how small moves you closer to your goal, all you have ot do is get on the path and start.
We need to have the same goal when it comes to Freedom and start the journey back.  We need to explain why the socialist / communist ideas do not work.  We can not believe that the teachers have taught thinking in school.  No one really wants to live under communism. 
Communism is like the joke about the desicion ot visit Hell and Heaven.  Hell loooks like a huge party and heaven looks boreing after you deside to go pick hell it is no longer the party and is Hell.  We need to show that the party is a farse.  Every time you can.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
   Hmm..I remembered the proverb and mistakenly took my first find as a source;
  http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/proverbs.html
 
  I guess the English and Mao both borrowed the proverb from a much earlier scholar;
  http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a_journey_of_a_thousand_miles_begins_with_a_single_step
 
  Some also credit Confucius with the phrase..