thinking 50/70

[handishooter]

Searched the forum for threads on 50/70, found a few, but not a lot information, I am thinking of a 50/70 project, I like the old black powder rounds, and I would only use black powder in it.  I see a few listed in peoples tag lines, did you stub? Rebore? How do you like them? Looking for any comments.

Thanks

[jedman]

  The 50-70's  have been built on H & R Huntsman muzzleloader barrels, they have a groove dia. of about .510 and are probably the easiest, and lowest cost platform for building a 50-70 barrel for a handi.
  The older barrels with the 7/8" dia. breechplug dont need much work to do the conversion.  After you remove the breechplug you need to create a clean flush face for the new breechplug to mate to.
  A   25/32 counterbore with a 1/2" pilot does the job of creating a smooth machined surface for the new plug to mate to.  A new breechplug is turned on the lathe with  7/8 -20 thread a .780 dia. front sholder and a .890 rear sholder and bored  large enough to allow the reamer pilot to insert into the barrels bore.
  The new plug should be made of a good steel ,  1" dia.  4140 barstock is a good choice and all turning and boring and threading should be done while chucked in the lathe so there is no runout.
 The new breechplug should be cut off long so as to give you a surface to tighten it into the barrel,
 Once you have a good fitting breechplug with threads that  match everything is cleaned well and the new breechplug is epoxy glued and tightened into the barrel.  To clean up the excess beechplug material I use a endmill and mill off the excess to within about .010 of the barrels breech surface and deburr the bored hole for turning.
 The methoods that I use could be done many other ways,  I then turn a piece of roundstock in the 3 jaw so it is running true to the spindle and turn a slight taper to match the bore I made in the breechplug , this will drive the barrel.  I made a muzzle plug that fits into the Huntsmans barrel it has a 60 degree center that was bored while the plug was turned.
 Now with the barrel being held between centers I use a tool ground to face off any excess material of the breechplug and to insure the barrels breechface is true with the bore when done.
 The chamber is then reamed ,  Other than turning and treading of the new breechplug,  I beleive everything else could be done without machines, by someone thats patient and good with a file.
 As for the extraction of the fired case,  I am just getting to that task but my idea now is to use a H & R ejector from a shotgun and modify it to be a spring powered extractor.   It wouold have about  3/16" of travel when the gun is broke open a stout spring would push the ejector out until it was stopped by a pin and be held under tension when the gun is closed.
 Wih this methood the barrel could be chambered to any of the longer 50's an work fine.
 
    Jedman

[Jason F]

I just been using my huntsman ram rod to knock the brass out

[bikerbeans]

I couldn't have said that better myself.
 
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[petemi]

I've got a question.  Why couldn't you just take a Huntsman barrel, cut off the breech plug end, ream a chamber and stub it to a shotgun barrel?   I guess it'd be short if you cut it in front of the lug, or remove the lug.

Pete

[jedman]

  Pete,    You could do just what you say  and you would loose about 1 1/2" in length.
 The main reason is the amount of work involved with stubbing, It is much more in my opinion.
  Jed

[handishooter]

Jedman, I can't thank you enough for the great insight. I have a brand new huntsman that I had fitted many years ago when I sent my handi in for a .44 mag barrel. I have never fired it yet, bought it with the intentions of converting it.  I am going to start on the conversion this weekend. I got a lathe several years ago and am getting pretty good with it, this will be a great project. I am going to build an ejector as you suggest, I just got done fixing up an old Ithaca 49 single shot and it has exactly the same kind of ejector only on a smaller scale.

thanks again, greatly appreciate you taking the time for that post.

[jedman]

handishooter,  I see by looking at your handi family that you have been using that lathe.
Most of my handis are non factory chamberings and wildcats that I have come up with.
In the past year H & R ejectors have become hard to get in some calibers, for the 50-70 most any of the rifle ejectors could be used but I found the 410 shotgun ejector at lower cost and available.
Good Luck on your conversion !       Jed

[handishooter]

Thanks to Jedman's great advice I am now the proud owner of a 50/70 handi. Have only fired 20 rnds of ten-x through it, but will shoot it a lot more when my dies, brass and mold arrive in the mail. Seems likes it going to be an accurate shooter, at least out to 50 yards which is about the longest shot I would get at our hunting lease. Next step is to build an ejector for it.

thanks for everyones input.

[bikerbeans]

Thanks to Jedman's great advice I am now the proud owner of a 50/70 handi. Have only fired 20 rnds of ten-x through it, but will shoot it a lot more when my dies, brass and mold arrive in the mail. Seems likes it going to be an accurate shooter, at least out to 50 yards which is about the longest shot I would get at our hunting lease. Next step is to build an ejector for it.

thanks for everyones input.

Welcome to the club!
 
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[jparedes]

Where do you get the cases for 50-70?

Thanks

[Smokin Joe]

Where do you get the cases for 50-70?

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/139/9

[jeepmann1948]

BB are you reffering to Jedmans post Or Jason's about the ramrod?

I couldn't have said that better myself.
 
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[muznut 54]

I think that's a cool Idea but I have a Handi in SW500 what if any benefit would I get with the 50/70?

[bikerbeans]

BB are you reffering to Jedmans post Or Jason's about the ramrod?

I couldn't have said that better myself.
 
BB

 

jeep,
 
I posted in response to Jedman but since I have been using a Ramrod as well it would apply to either.     Extractor notches are cut, hopefully have an ejector on the 50-70 shortly.
 
muznut,
 
500 S&W is a 50 cal pistol cartridge not a 50 cal rifle cartridge so a 50-70 rechamber probably wouldn't fly.  The case capacities of these two cartridges isn't that different and the much higher pressure rating of the 500 S&W would make it a much more potent round.  You could however, use a can of Trail Boss in your 500 S&W to duplicate 50-70 ballastics.  My current load in the 50-70 is a screamin' 1200 FPS with a 450 grain LFN.
 
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[muznut 54]

I knew I couldn't make one from the sw500 barrel but was wondering if their was any benefits to the 50/70. And how well do the 1:28 barrels do with real heavy bullets like 500grs ?

[twoshooter]

I know that when I first got my 500, since I am not into anti-tank loads, I used 50/70 load data and have been very pleased with the performance. I use 12 gr of Unique and a 440 gr Lee cast for "plinker" loads, very pleasant to shoot and also quite accurate.

[bikerbeans]

I knew I couldn't make one from the sw500 barrel but was wondering if their was any benefits to the 50/70. And how well do the 1:28 barrels do with real heavy bullets like 500grs ?

The heavist boolits I have shot in the 50-70 are 460 grain at about 1,200 FPS.  They are stable and shoot fine.  I have some 450 grain LFNs loaded over Unique to try today.  THe 450s  should be in the upper subsonic range.  A used a stability calculating program that says these bullets in a 1:28 twist @ 1,000 fps should be stable.  The local gun shop has some 700 grain .512" bullets. I thought about trying the 700s but since I know how to make "keyhole" loads for my BC I decided againist buying them.
 
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[muznut 54]

For the guys in the know with a 5/8 plug would you just bore out the threads and install a bored  sleeve maybe a press fit and a tack weld or brazed on the back side or would you make a threaded sleeve for the chamber? My thoughts are there's not much meat left on the chamber sleeve if you use a threaded sleeve. 

[bikerbeans]

For the guys in the know with a 5/8 plug would you just bore out the threads and install a bored  sleeve maybe a press fit and a tack weld or brazed on the back side or would you make a threaded sleeve for the chamber? My thoughts are there's not much meat left on the chamber sleeve if you use a threaded sleeve.

The "Think Tank"    has discussed this idea and we are leanin' toward a interference fit with epoxy.  Only concern with the sleeve moving would be when you ream the chamber.  I wouldn't be worried about the sleeve moving when the gun is fired as I have epoxied in plugs to convert 45-70s to 45 cal smokeless MZs and neither of these plugs has moved after 100s of rounds fired.  The MZ conversion plugs are closed on the end except for the flash hole so they take the must hold the pressure generated by the powder going off.  My stand load with these conversion plugs is a 279 grain sabot at 2,000 fps with these plug and no problems.  I intentionally left the first plug about .01" shy of the breech face to see if the epoxy would hold and it ain't moved yet. 
 
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[gcrank1]

I recommend using the heavy duty red Loctite for sleeves and bearing races; way easy to use and you will likely need heat to get it apart.