Do you season the Barrels on your BP firearms??

[Rock Home Isle]

I get the feeling that there are some here that don't season the barrels on their Blackpowder firearms.
 
A man by the name of Fred Newcomb taught me how to season the barrel of a blackpowder rifle way back when I was teenager. And a gentleman by the name of Mike Nessbit wrote a great article on the differences between using a well seasoned barrel and one that wasn't seasoned. He also stated in that same article that using  cleaners that contain Hydrogen Peroxide will quickly strip the seasoning out of your barrel and you have to start the process over again.
 
Do you season your barrel? How do you season your barrel?
 
If you don't season your barrel...then why not?

[keith44]

if a rifle has a steel barrel seasoning is not really needed, and these days does not seem to be wanted.  Trying to season a barrel with pyrodex or any other substitute powder us also a futile effort.  If you prefer not to use water to clean a smokepole you will also not want to try to season your barrel.


Seasoning the bore of a smokepole is from the days of iron barrels, and where hot water and animal fat were used to clean and preserve the barrel, much like cast iron cookware.


So do I season a barrel?? yes, and no.  My flintlock, yes, my wanna be a Hawkin, yes, my .54x.54 Double Rifle? No.


The grooves are just too shallow, and since the bore is highly polished I think it would be detrimental to accuracy to try.

[luckydawg13]

okay a gotta ask this i use bore butter i have used this in my T/C Hawken for the past
37 years does this season a barrel

[Rock Home Isle]

 
Seasoning a barrel is a process, it's not really the repeated use of specific products over a long period of time. Think of seasoning a BP Barrel as a process similar to properly breaking in the barrel on a modern rifle.

But the end result may well be the same. I really don't know if repeated use of Bore Butter over a 37 year period would season a barrel...But if you've taken care of the barrel and cleaned it well, oiled it well and maybe run a nice oiled patch through it once or twice between shooting sessions, its most likely well seasoned and has been for some time. 
 
Once a barrel has been properly seasoned there is a very noticable difference. The gun becomes so easy to load, even after repeated shooting on humid days while using large grain black powder. On the barrels that I've taken the time to seaon properly I have no fouling problems after many shots and even while shooting ffg in small calibre. The well seasoned barrel is also very easy to clean, they basically wipe clean with little to no scrubbing to remove hard fouling deposits in the bore.
 
My CVA Mountain Rifle has been seasoned for many many years. It was a painful process, as the gun was purchased used and I don't think that the original owner knew how to properly take care of a BP Rifle. But finally it got to the point where I was seeing the results of properly seasoned barrel.
 
I took the time to carefully season my TVM Kentucky Poor Boy. This gun was taken care of from the very beginning and it is one of the smoothest firearms that I have ever shot. I wish that ALL my BP rifles had been treated in this fashion. Its a long process to take a gun that was never properly seasoned and get it into a seasoned condition. I did it with my CVA...its a long process.
 
My .32 Blue Ridge & my .50 Calibre Alamo rifle have both been seasoned. As a side benifit both of these rifles went from being fairly hunting accurate to becoming great shooters once the process was completed.
 
My Blue Ridge .50 and my Blue Ridge Carbine .54...Just never took the time to season them properly and it is immediately evident everytime that I take them out to the range. That's probably why they don't hit the range with me as often as my other firearms. Maybe a project for this summer.
 
 
By the way, none of my smoothbore doubles have been seasoned. 

[BE Wild Willy]

OK, now my interest has been peaked.

RHI, what steps do you take to properly season your bore? I've heard both, why you should, and that it's not needed. I have a couple of firearms that I'd like to season, including my new Mountain Rifle. Would you be so kind as to share your process?

Danke...BEWW

[necchi]

Simply put "Seasoning" a modern steel barrel is a myth.
 
 While fully cleaning then coating the clean steel barrel with a rust preservative is a proper process and well advised to do,
associating that process with the term "seasoning" is an analogy that just doesn't apply.
 
 Seasoning means to bake or burn a coating over the top of the bare steel, any coating like that in a rifled bore successfully plugs the definition of the rifles grooves and lands essentially plugging the bore.
 
 Just look at any instruction for "seasoning" to find the process as I described. It's not something you need or want to do to a rifled (any) barrel.

[keith44]

Simply put "Seasoning" a modern steel barrel is a myth.
 
 While fully cleaning then coating the clean steel barrel with a rust preservative is a proper process and well advised to do,
associating that process with the term "seasoning" is an analogy that just doesn't apply.
 
 Seasoning means to bake or burn a coating over the top of the bare steel, any coating like that in a rifled bore successfully plugs the definition of the rifles grooves and lands essentially plugging the bore.
 
 Just look at any instruction for "seasoning" to find the process as I described. It's not something you need or want to do to a rifled (any) barrel.

err yes and no
it is possible to bake on a layer of lube and not affect SOME rifled bores.  Slow twist, deeply grooved barrels that need help with fouling and cleaning can be improved by seasoning.


Otherwise, you are correct.

[necchi]

Please explain the Process of "Seasoning" a rifle bore.

[keith44]

Please explain the Process of "Seasoning" a rifle bore.

LOL sorry necchi,


Basically you would use extra lube (a traditional BP lube that is mainly animal fat based, but crisco and bore butter work as well) load the gun with the usual amount of powder, place a round ball sized ball of lube in the bore, load the usual projectile, and fire.  Repeat until done shooting for the day, clean with hot water only.  Fill bore with boiling water, and dump it out, repeat until metal is hot (too hot to hold with bare hand), wipe out the bore with a patch and the same fat based lube used in shooting.  Repeat process until the bore looks like a seasoned piece of cast iron cookware.


Since this does build up over time, and does tend to "clog the bore" care must be used to keep this to just seasoned enough to be like a non-stick coating.  It can cause irregular pressures, so have a plan to scour out the excess build up if you shoot alot. 

[P.A. Myers]

Is this serious? Sounds like a bucket of prop wash.

                                     P.A.

[keith44]

yup, it is serious or true, and is one of those things left over from iron barreled guns.  Modern steels and shallow grooved rifling often do not respond well to this treatment.

[BE Wild Willy]

Well. maybe I won't concern myself with "seasoning" the bore on my CVA Mtn. Rifle. But think I'll try it on my .32 cal. pea shooter from the 1860s. It has very deep rifling and not the smoothest of bores, but still decent. Would this gun have a cast iron barrel? You can see pics of it in the pictures thread.

[keith44]

if it were cast iron, it would have blown up long ago.  The Iron barrels were forged, like the original Whitworth, and early Springfield muskets, along with Brown Bess's.  By the 1800's barrels were typically steel.  Designated as twist steel, fluid steel, etc.  While yours could be Iron, my bet is it is steel, but should respond well to seasoning

[Victor3]

Is this serious? Sounds like a bucket of prop wash.

                                     P.A.

 It's serious among those who value historical practices (much of which is nothing but voodoo) over modern metallurgy, internal ballistics, etc.
 
 This is the "traditional" ML forum though, so no need to rock the boat with science and such. 

[Rock Home Isle]

Simply put "Seasoning" a modern steel barrel is a myth.
 
 While fully cleaning then coating the clean steel barrel with a rust preservative is a proper process and well advised to do,
associating that process with the term "seasoning" is an analogy that just doesn't apply.
 
 Seasoning means to bake or burn a coating over the top of the bare steel, any coating like that in a rifled bore successfully plugs the definition of the rifles grooves and lands essentially plugging the bore.
 
 Just look at any instruction for "seasoning" to find the process as I described. It's not something you need or want to do to a rifled (any) barrel.

Modern rifle barrels benifit greatly by a proper breaking-in process. That is a fact. If done properly this process will reduce leading of the bore and also reduce copper plateing in the bore. There are products that can be purchased to accomplish this desired end. There are micro pores that exist in the bore of the barrel and these pores allow leading and copper build-up to occur. Breaking-in a modern barrel smoothes out the surface of the bore and reduces the effects of the micro-pores ability to catch and hold powder residues, lead particulates and copper particulates. These pores are a result of the manufacturing process, not a result of the metal used to make the product.
 
Blackpowder by its very nature creates heavy deposits in the bore of the rifle during active shooting. The process of seasoning the barrel has the desired effect of sealing the micro pores that are created during the boring and rifling processes. It doesn't matter if the barrel is modern steel or historical iron, the pores are still present. These pores are a result of the manufacturing procress not the type of metal used in the product. Once a blackpowder barrel has been seasoned these pores are sealed over and heavy deposits no longer have points of purchase within the bore and can more easily be removed from the bore when cleaned. Another benifit is that deposits don't develop as heavily during shooting so that the need to periodically swab the bore between shots is reduced or eliminated. Seasoned bores tend also to be a little bit more accurate than none seasoned bores because of reduced fluctuations in pressure...with reduced depositing, the rifle is more consistant shot to shot (all other things being equal).
 
If a bore is not well maintained, then pitting will occur and no amount of seasoning will correct this problem. If the pitting is not advanced the bore may be taken to a qualified gun smith and freshened. But freshening can only be done a few times to a barrel.

[Rock Home Isle]

OK, now my interest has been peaked.

RHI, what steps do you take to properly season your bore? I've heard both, why you should, and that it's not needed. I have a couple of firearms that I'd like to season, including my new Mountain Rifle. Would you be so kind as to share your process?

Danke...BEWW

Hey BE Wild Willy,
 
My primary intent with the thread was to see how many people season their BP Barrels and also to see how they are doing it. My process is a long process and I was hoping that someone here at GB had a real slick method that they wanted to share with others.
 
My secondary intent was to see who didn't season their barrels on their muzzlelaoders and why they didn't go through the process. I half expected most people to say that it was a pain in the butt and that was why they didn't do it. I was a little surprised that posters were indicating that it amounted to an "old wives tale" and was a non-facor.
 
I've never written my procedure out...so give me a bit and I'll post it later. I'm hosting a study session for my students after school, so while they are working I'll formulate it into words and post it.
 
If anybody does season their barrels on their muzzlelaoders, I would still appreciate a peek at how you do it. If not in this thread maybe in a PM.
 
Thank you. 

[BE Wild Willy]

Thanks Rock Home Isle, looking forward to it...

[bubba.50]

on the muzzleloading forum there is a pretty long piece on "why we don't season barrels". sorta explains the iron/steel differences mentioned here and why it's not necessary for steel barrels. for what it's worth and have a good'en friends, bubba.

[Rock Home Isle]

Rock Home Isle’s Procedure for Seasoning a Muzzleloading Barrel

When I first got into Black Powder, I met a gentleman by the name of Fred Newcomb. Fred had a small black powder shop in Loveland Colorado that was called the “Lone Elk Trading Post”. I was very impressed with Fred; he was a 5 time Colorado State Muzzleloading Champion. After Fred’s eyes starting going bad, he switched to black powder Shotgun Competitions and was a 3 time Colorado State Black Powder Trap and Skeet Champion. I miss old Fred, he was a very fine gentleman and a great mentor. One thing about ole Fred, he was a dedicated competitor and he didn’t like to loose.

Fred gave me a process to season the Barrel of a Muzzleloading Rifle. For many years after Fred shared this with me, I used this process to season the barrels of my muzzllelaoders, and I shared this information with hunting buddies and with others looking for a barrel seasoning process.

Over the years I have adapted my process several times, as I read articles in various shooting publications or had discussions around dim campfires where others took the time to share with me what they had discovered. Mike Nessbit once wrote a sentence about an observation that he made. Mike wrote that he noticed that if a cleaning solution contained Hydrogen Peroxide (H₂O₂) this seemed to strip any seasoning out of the barrel of his muzzleloader and as a result he had to start the seasoning process over again. As a result he tended to avoid cleaning solutions that contained this chemical compound. That was a changing moment for me, as it gave me insight as to how update my process so that it might became more effective and inclusive.

Here is my seasoning process for muzzleloading firearms:

[Rock Home Isle]

 Step 1: When I first purchase a Black Powder Firearm, be it a new firearm or a new-used firearm,  I make up a special cleaning solution that I use to scrubb out the bore of the newly acquired gun and begin the process of seasoning the barrel. I don’t make very much of this solution as I will only use it when I need to break in a used gun or season a new barrel. If the solution hasn’t been used up after a month or two, then I pitch it and start over with fresh solution the next time that I need it. Here is my cleaning solution formula:

 ˝ Liter Storage Bottle
˝  Cup House Hold Ammonia
1/8 Cup Dawn Dishwashing Soap
3% Solution of Hydrogen Peroxide (purchase one 473 ml bottle)

The 3% Solution of Hydrogen Peroxide can be purchased at any Pharmacy. Fill the ˝ Liter Storage Bottle 1/2 full with Hydrogen Peroxide. Add ˝ cup of House Hold Ammonia and then 1/8 Cup of Dawn Dishwashing Soap. Mix well and top off the ˝ liter bottle with the remaining Hydrogen Peroxide. The solution then is ready for use.

Use the above solution to scrubb out the bore of the muzzleloader. Very thoroughly clean the bore with the solution. Then wipe the bore dry and use a good oil to swab the bore of the gun. The oil that I use is a WWII military surplus gun  oil, that was recommended to me by Fred. I have used this oil ever since. Once the barrel is cleaned let it sit over night, then wipe the bore with an oiled patch again the next day. Look at the patch for residue. If it’s a new barrel there may not be any residue and if this is a used barrel, there most likely will be residue.

Scrubb the bore again with the above solution, swab it dry with a patch and oil the bore well. The next day repeat this process. Begin again by wiping the bore with an oiled patch and inspecting the residue; Scrubbing the bore with the solution, drying it and then wiping it down well with an oiled patch and letting it sit over night and checking it the next day. By the 3^rd day of this process the bore should now be thoroughly cleaned of any old attempts at seasoning and all built up powder residues should now be removed. For a brand new barrel, any residual oils and grease left from the machining process should now be cleaned out of the barrel and the barrel is now ready to begin the seasoning process.

[Rock Home Isle]

Step 2: Shooting at the range. After each of the first 5 shots at the range I completely clean the barrel. I clean the barrel after each shot. I scrubb the barrel with my Basic Cleaning solvent, this is a formulation that I gained from Fred and I have included the recipe below. After I’ve scrubbed out the bore with the cleaning solvent, I run a dry patch down the bore to remove the solvent and ensure that the bore is cleaned. Then I wipe the bore with my WWII surplus gun oil, run another dry patch and load up for the next shot. I do this after each of the first 5 shots for the day at the range. Once this 5 shot string is completed, I shoot normally for the remainder of the time at the range. I swab when I have to and I load and shoot with nothing special.

When I’m done shooting for the day, I scrubb the bore out with my Basic Cleaning solvent until it is clean. You can tell when the bore is cleaned as the patches will no longer have black residue and will have a greenish coloring. The greenish coloring is normal. Modern black powder barrels are made from steel which has a general composition that is 98% Iron; ~1.0% Chromium and ~0.4% Carbon. The greenish coloring on the cleaning patch is the result of a chemical reaction between the cleaning solution and the chromium in the steel. Once the bore is cleaned I run a dry patch and then run my WWII oil on a patch through the barrel. Hopefully, there will be a break of several days before the next time that I go to the range. So every few days I’ll run another oiled patch down the barrel and inspect it very carefully. When you do this you will note that the patch should be pretty cruddy looking at the beginning of the seasoning process. That first patch after the gun has been cleaned and sitting for awhile should come out with black residue, even after you’ve scrubbed it clean and oiled it. You most likely will even find rust residues. A few days later run another oiled patch, and a few days later run another oiled patch. These 2^nd or 3^rd patches, before you return to the range will be cruddy as well, but each will be less so.

The next time that I go the range I again go through the tedious 5 shot process as stated before. At the end of the day, I clean the gun thoroughly with the Basic Cleaning Solution, swab the barrel dry and oil the gun as stated before. Over the next few days I’ll again run random oiled patches down the bore. You will notice that after each shooting session there will be less and less cruddy residues on these patches that you run in the days after shooting the gun at the range. If I have the patience, I have found that after 8 to 10 times to the range, with time in between to run oiled patches, I will reach a point where the barrel will have little or no residue when I run a oiled patch down the barrel several days after cleaning it. At that point, the barrel is seasoned, and you will note that the gun will load easier after successive shots and the gun will clean easier at the end of a long day of shooting. I have even seen accuracy improve in 2 of my guns, once they were properly seasoned.

For a good Basic Black Powder Cleaning Solution...here is my cleaning solution formula:

1 Liter Storage Bottle
1 Cup House Hold Ammonia
1/4 Cup Dawn Dishwashing Soap

Fill the 1 Liter Storage Bottle 1/2 full with warm to hot water. Add 1 cup of House Hold Ammonia and then 1/4 Cup of Dawn Dishwashing Soap. Mix well and top off the liter bottle with warm water.

[Rock Home Isle]

I typed this up and cut and pasted it into the thread...and for some reason the fonts seem to go all wonky on me. I just don't get it.
 
Sorry about the wierdness of teh font and the shifting Bolded words, I hope you can read it with some clarity. 

[BE Wild Willy]

Thank you RHI for taking the time to post your seasoning procedures. I've been using a technique quite similar except for the use of Bore Butter in lieu of your WWII oil. Not sure if I'm "seasoning" or just breaking in the bore. Either way, loading is becoming easier, and accuracy is as good as I can shoot.

[corbanzo]

If you are using old guns with old steel, old powder that is very corrosive, old primers that are corrosive... then doing something to protect the metal is necessary. - Mostly cleaning the hell out of it.  Put some oil on it.  If you have a problem... you need to shoot more often.


I am not in love with "doin it the old way cause im sentimental"


My muzzleloaders are current production, I use "equivalent" powders and new style primers.   No reason not to.


No reason to treat the barrel any different than a regular rifle barrel.  Clean the living $%&^ out of it, and you are good to go.


Any other treatment and you need to stay on the range and shoot more cause you got too much time on your hands.

[Rock Home Isle]

Here's the oil that I use to clean my muzzleoaders.
 

 
This item used to be reaily available and very cheap at about 25 cents a can in my area. Now its getting kinda hard to find and the last time that I cared to check the price was about $1.50 a can, if you could find it. When I saw the trend, about 10 years ago, I bought 2 cases of the stuff. That should last me for a while.

[P.A. Myers]

Just reading the seasoning procedure I got out of breath and my back started to hurt. I love the campfire voodoo tho.

        P.A.

[necchi]

Yeah, Thanks for sharing.
I clean and oil my guns too,
 I just don't call the process "seasoning".
I wish you well and if your process works for you then I'm all for it.
 
But "Seasoning" a barrel is a myth. You "Season" a cast iron or even a steel fry pan.
 
What you are doing is cleaning and oiling, and that's something very good to do.
 
 I'd skip the ammonia unless the barrel is rusting. Rust is an acid reaction causing Oxidation, Ammonia is Base, and will help neutralize the acid reaction and help stop the Oxidation.
 
 Call it what you will, but cleaning and oiling isn't "Seasoning" by definition.

[Rock Home Isle]

Black Powder is made by combining Carbon, Sulfur and Nitrate. When you ignite blackpowder you initiate a combustion reaction where the products include hydroscopic Sulfur Compounds. These compounds then absorb moisture from the air and form Acid Compounds, primarily Sulfuric Acid & Sulfurous Acid. The inclusion of the Ammonia in the cleaning solution is intended to nuetralize the acidic properties of the blackpowder residues.
 
Rusting is not an acidic process it is an oxidation process. Rust is also called Iron (III) Oxide and has the chemical formula Fe₂O_3.
 
Rust is formed when Iron reacts with Oxygen. 4 Fe _(s) +  3 O_{2 (g)}   reacts to produce 2 Fe₂O_{3 (s)}

Good to hear that you clean your guns though, that is at least one good habit.

[necchi]

 This explains Seasoning; pick one,, or all,,
http://www.google.com/search?q=seasoning steel&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIH
You can replace the word "steel" above with "Iron" if you choose and pick one/all of those.
 
 What you describe is Nothing like the "seasoning" process linked by any search of the word or term as it applies to steel or firearms.
 
"Seasoning" a barrel is a myth, an olde wives tale,,
 
 Your extended explanation, read by anyone is simply Cleaning and Oiling. You are using Cleaning agents then Gun oil and repeating the process.
 During this extended process you are shooting allot, I would suggest you skip all the extra motions and just shoot allot. If you shoot allot your shooting skills improve, thus the gun shoots better,,
If it's your son's gun that's not shooting well, then He should be the one doing all the shooting practice.
 Not once do you mention too bake, roast, or somehow cook an oil into the steel to "season" it as ALL seasoning processes describe.
 
 I don't know who Mr. Newcomb is, but Mike Nessbit is a paid writer of magazine articles, if he doesn't write an article he doesn't get paid.
I gave up long ago believing everything in magazine articles.

[keith44]

search again, start here:


http://www.eabco.com/Muzzleloader04.htm