Author Topic: 223 to 7TCU  (Read 1947 times)

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Offline parisite

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223 to 7TCU
« on: April 15, 2012, 09:40:41 AM »
I'm about to get my feet wet in turning 223 brass in to 7mm TCU brass.
 
If I trim my 223 brass to 1.750" then size, then fireform, will I still have the 1.750" length? I don't want to have to buy another size case mouth cutter.
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Offline Elwood

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 01:21:40 PM »
A 223 case grows shorter when necked up to 7mm and fireformed. I dont think that I will ever have to trim mine. A sharp shouldered case grows much less than a long shouldered one.
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Offline ole95

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 01:26:20 PM »
From what I have found and from what I have read brass from 223 will be SHORT already
I just checked some only fire formed  R P brass and it is 1.723. it was 1.750  before converting
you mite won't  mic,form ,fireform ,mic a couple  1st. to see what you have before trimming



Offline Hopalong7

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 02:03:45 AM »
        You will most likely have to have the 7mm cutter to trim with, not because of a length issue, but to square up the case mouths after you resize them :( .  Sorry.
Walt

Offline jbj-displays

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2012, 10:09:21 AM »
It is also been stated that military brass should be avoided when making TCU & Whisper brass

Offline parisite

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 02:56:47 PM »
Yes I also have read that military brass should be avoided....but why? Is there some safety issue with military brass?
 
Thing is, I have a 5 gallon bucket brimming full of 5.56 brass and there might be 2% of it that is commercial 223 caliber.
 If I split a few necks in the process of sizing it won't hurt my feelings at all.
 
Should I still not use military brass???
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Offline jbj-displays

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 04:12:12 PM »
Can be difference in wall thickness which in turn can give high pressure from one case to another. Using those cases will not let you get the best groups that you can with commercial brass. It also tends to be a touch harder brass which will split at the neck shoulder area when fired formed.

Offline parisite

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 05:44:40 PM »
Can, maybe, perhaps, and feasible are all cautions I will heed; and I'll suit up in my safety gear, do an in depth analization of all components before I venture out in to uncharted 7mm TCU reloading territory with military brass.
 
 
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Offline lynneil

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 02:59:50 AM »
Because of the short neck of .223 brass, I went to .222 MAG cases. I trim the neck to tightly fit my "oversize" chamber. It amounts to about 3/32" in my T/C barrel. Been doing this for the past 4 years. After fire forming, I neck size only. I've reloaded these cases at least 20x and have had to chuck very few of them . Those that do fail are from split necks. The failure rate is not any greater than when I used to use military (LC) .223 brass. From what I understand, .204 brass can also be used to form 7 T/CU cases.

Offline Steve P

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 06:08:12 AM »
Some good replies and some not so good replies above.  I have thousands of TCU rounds at home in 6mm, 6.5mm, and 7mm TCU.  I started shooting 7mm TCU in 1986.  I have a few hundred rounds to load in the next week and a half for another match coming up.  My reply will be based on 25  years and 10s of 1000s of rounds loaded and fired. 
 
Learn to load what you have.  Don't go out and guy a bunch of brass if you have a bucket full.  (The barrel you are shooting with cannot read the headstamp.)
 
If you want accurate loads, you have to prepare the brass.  Whether military or commercial, you have to do some work to get good accurate loads.  (Sub MOA at 100 yards)  If you have a bucket of brass, go sort it by head stamp.  I don't mean WCC, LC, TW etc in a pile.  I mean LC 68 in a pile, LC 72 in a pile etc.  EXACT headstamp in a pile.   Use brass with exact headstamp when working up your loads.  DO NOT MIX IT.
 
Clean the brass very good.  If you have a universal decapping die, or depriming unit, remove primers before cleaning. 
 
After cleaning, debur the inside of the case neck.  Remove any burs so the sizing pin in your sizing die does not have a rough area to catch.
 
Use imperial sizing die wax or similar good lube on the inside of the case neck.  I use a Q-tip to apply it.  I also like the imperial sizing die wax on the exterior of the case.  You don't need much, if any, on the case neck.  It is too small for the die right now anyway.  Inside the case neck is the important spot to have lubed and cleaned.
 
Size all of your brass and inspect every one for split neck.  If you have cleaned, deburred, and used good lube, you shouldn't have any.  Remove any primer crimp with swage or cutter.  You can also debur inside of flash hole if you wish.
 
I now trim my brass to same length.  I like RP brass for competition and I size it to 1.720 because that is usually the sweet spot (all cases are that long or longer).  A lot of the military brass is near 1.725-1.730.  Use a good trimmer if you have one to make all the same length.  If you dont have a trimmer and pilot, order one of the Lee trimmers with lock stud.  That is what I started with years ago and I still use it.
 
8.0 grains of Unique and a good cast bullet is accurate and makes a fine fireform load.  This is easily within book specification and is actually a load I will shoot in a few weeks in competition (I use RCBS 145 Silhouette bullet).
 
Once the brass is fireformed, you can work up to heavier loads.  If using military brass please ensure you are at least 10% under book max.  The brass is often thicker and has less capacity than commercial brass.
 
I often check length again after fireforming.  If using military brass, I will anneal them after that fireform step to soften them a little.  You don't have to anneal, but you could start seeing necks split in as soon as 5 reloads.
 
I have a lot of nickel plated brass that Federal made years ago.  98 of 100 are still in use.  I lost 2 to split necks on the 16th reload.
 
You don't have to spend the big bucks with the 7TCU to make it shoot.  Uniformity in brass and loading techniques will usually produce near MOA accuracy if barrel or gun is capable.
 
Good luck.  Hope all goes well.
 
Steve :) 
"Life is a play before an audience of One.  When your play is over, will your audience stand and applaude, or stay seated and cry?"  SP 2002

Offline parisite

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 02:52:41 PM »
Thanks Steve P for the very helpful and informative post.............
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Offline contender villian

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 03:08:44 AM »
I use the 7 tcu sizer die to size and deprime, then fireform right from there and the "virgin" 7mmtcu's are just as or close to
as good shooting as the fire formed one's

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 05:40:18 AM »
I'm sure this will draw fire but for years I shot 223 rounds in my 7TCU. then sized them ( This way I had almost no split cases if good brass was used). Then i trimmed and loaded a light load to fire form. Or in some cases loaded pratice loads.
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Offline Junior1942

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 09:15:50 AM »
Thanks Steve P for the very helpful and informative post.............
+1 on the great post by Steve P.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 10:04:55 AM »
Almost all the 7TCU cases I've ever made were military brass. I see no reason not to use it.


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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 03:27:44 AM »
We used military , rem both nickle and brass and winchester along with brass with other head stamps not sure about. Remington seemed to work best but most worked well enough. When using nickle the expanded area would lose the nickle finish which when cleaned looked nice , nickle case , brass ring , copper bullet and a red tip  ;D
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Offline contender villian

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Re: 223 to 7TCU
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2012, 04:25:58 PM »
all good responses and good reading
AA+++ to all the post