Refilling 1# propane tanks?

[Victor3]

 In the past few years, the price of 1# disposable propane tanks has gone up substantially in my area. Has anyone used the fitting available to refill them from a 20# tank?
 
 I understand you can't get a full 1# back into them and that the cylinders don't last forever, but If I can get a few fills out of each one at ~$1/fill, it might be worth the trouble.
 
 For survival use, lugging a 1# tank around is a lot easier than a 20#. 

[mechanic]

I have, and so far it works well.  I go through a bunch of these at cub scout family camp, outfitting parents who are too dumb to remember to bring gas........
 
Ben

[Buckskin]

Yeah, it's pretty simple to do.  Just put empty 1#er in the freezer before filling.

[BUGEYE]

my Dad put a shelf on the south side of his shed, where the 20# tank was mounted upside down and the cooled 1# tank hung below it with a shade over it.
he'd let it hang there for about an hour and put on another one.  worked well.

[Ranch13]

Much simpler and more reliable to simply get the hose that goes from the 20# bottle to the 1lb canister fitting on the appliance.
 

[spooked]

Much simpler and more reliable to simply get the hose that goes from the 20# bottle to the 1lb canister fitting on the appliance.

Yabutt, that degrades the portability sumpin awful, how would ya backpack one of them things...

[Ranch13]

On a freighter pack frame.
Besides in a "survival" situation how the sam hill would you ever carry enough of those lil buggers to last long enough to do any good? They don't last very long in lanterns, and cookstoves eatem like they were candy, bbq grill not quite as hard on them.
 Besides in a "survival" situation a person should be thought out far enough ahead to have plenty of 20-100 lb propane bottles in place already.
 

[Couger]

Yeah, it's pretty simple to do.  Just put empty 1#er in the freezer before filling.

Excellent idea!  I haven't refilled smaller propane bottles, but apparently refilling them is long past the 'rumor stage!'  Great news. 

[Victor3]

On a freighter pack frame.
Besides in a "survival" situation how the sam hill would you ever carry enough of those lil buggers to last long enough to do any good? They don't last very long in lanterns, and cookstoves eatem like they were candy, bbq grill not quite as hard on them.
 Besides in a "survival" situation a person should be thought out far enough ahead to have plenty of 20-100 lb propane bottles in place already.

 Sam Hill? Is he Hank's brother? 
 

 
 I use different fuels to cook/heat/light while camping (wood, charcoal, alcohol, white gas, kerosene, propane) and keep all on hand if needed for an emergency. Nobody's gonna be carrying much of any type of fuel on their person for very far in a "survival" scenario (or any other). A 1# propane bottle or two does come in handy, and if I could help a friend or neighbor by filling their empty when the city gas is cut off for a while, it might be something to trade for an item I need.
 
 This little Coleman burned through the night and into the morning on one bottle in a small one room cabin recently, with gas left over to cook breakfast. Provides plenty of light to work by on high and enough heat to cut the chill on low, while serving as a night light...
 

 

 
 A great $20 survival (or camping) tool IMO...
 
http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-One-Mantle-Compact-Propane-Lantern/dp/B0009PUR54
 
 

[Ranch13]

You folks that live where you're never more than a couple of miles from town or a paved road, don't quite get treated to the same sort of stuff those of us that have to go 40 miles one way just to get to town.
Just to go for a few days fishing trip it'll take a 6 pack of those little bottles. That's a 1/3 of a 20 lb bottle.
I much prefer the old coleman fuel stoves and lanterns, a gallon of that fuel is easier to pack along than the little propane bottles and lasts longer.
You really need to sit and do some serious figuring when it comes to propane, it's all we have for heat and cooking. We don't keep the house terribly warm and do supplement the heat with the wood stove. On average just the two of us, and we go thru about 1200 gallons of propane a year.

[Couger]

.....You really need to sit and do some serious figuring when it comes to propane, it's all we have for heat and cooking. We don't keep the house terribly warm and do supplement the heat with the wood stove. On average just the two of us, and we go thru about 1200 gallons of propane a year.

Good points.  How often / many times per year do you have your propane tank filled?
 
 
 
Also regarding fuel for the Coleman appliances, do you buy white gas?  And if so, where do you usually find it? (vs buying the more expensive Coleman fuel?)

[charles p]

Put your 20 lb tank in the sunshine to warm up and your 1lb tank in the freezer.  You may need to repeat the process to get a full tank.
I suggest you weigh a full factory tank and record the weight so you can determine when your refilled tank is properly full.  If you overfill a tank, it will slowly vent - not something you want occuring in your storage area or automobile.  I leave refilled tanks outdoors for 24 hours just to be sure.
 
 

[Ranch13]

Couger about 3 times a year usually, unless it gets really cold.
I'm talking about the regular coleman fuel in the red cans.. we havent' been able to get whitegas for several years now, and it's getting harder to find the gallon cans of coleman, they seem to want to sell the designer bottles of the stuff nowdays.
The dual fuel colemans that will work off of unleaded seem like a good idea. I have a couple of those lanterns but never could bring myself to poor gasoline in them.
We can't get kerosene in bulk anymore either, have to buy it in the 5 gallon cans,so running that heater as a back up during power outages etc is less of an option than it used to be.

[chefjeff]

Around here the small bottles sell for about $5.25 for a two pack. Propane is getting cheaper because of the historic light winter,glut of gas. I use a $17 adapter from Northern Hydraulics to fill from a grill tank,takes a couple minutes.I have four 20# tanks and a dozen bottles,with a grill,lantern,and a small heater. Kind of a power outage kit.

[Victor3]

Just to go for a few days fishing trip it'll take a 6 pack of those little bottles. That's a 1/3 of a 20 lb bottle.
I much prefer the old coleman fuel stoves and lanterns, a gallon of that fuel is easier to pack along than the little propane bottles and lasts longer.

 My Wife, Son and I regularly go camping for 3-5 days at a time. We rarely go through more than two 1# bottles, using them for both lighting and cooking. However, we do about 1/2 of our cooking over the fire and also use flashlights.
 
 Even six 1# bottles would be less of a hassel for us over a 20#, considering the gear we stuff into the back of our Toyota Tacoma short bed. Also, 1# bottles can be separated to use in different places.
 
 I grew up camping/hunting nearly every weekend year-round and have some fond (and not so fond) memories of white gas lanterns/stoves. They're useful, but not as hassle-free as propane ones. A gallon of Coleman fuel is fairly cheap, compact and lasts a long time, but lighting/cooking fuel is only a tiny % of the cost of a camping trip and I don't need a gallon for 3-5 days.
 
 With my propane stuff, never have had to fill (or spill), pump up, take apart to clean the generator, nor turn a stove upside down to dump liquid fuel out of it before breakfast either. 

[mechanic]

Most of my camping is with my scouts...no liquid fuel....no alcohol, so that kind of nails it down.  Butane or propane, of which propane is the cheaper.  Refilling the bottles only winds up costing a few cents.  The 20# tank only holds 5 gal. propane, so when you buy one refilled for upwards of $20.00 you are paying a premium for convenience.   If you have a big tank at home, ask your retailer about a fill hose so you can fill the 20's as well.
 
Ben

[Victor3]

Around here the small bottles sell for about $5.25 for a two pack.

 I have to pay that much for one of them. Don't know why; maybe because we don't have much of a propane infrastructure in a city with piped-in natural gas. Only folks with a forklift or BBQ use propane around here. I pay ~$20 to exchange a 20# tank.
 
 Apart from cost, it seems a shame to toss the nicely constructed 1# bottles in the trash after a single use.

[Couger]

..... Apart from cost, it seems a shame to toss the nicely constructed 1# bottles in the trash after a single use.

I don't use much propane except for grilling dinner a couple times per week.
 
But it sounds like an excellent idea to stockpile the empty #1 bottles even to barter later,
if it came to that! 
 
Digressing a little, what are some or your state laws regarding 20# and bigger propane bottles?
 
Here in WA state, a propane bottle is certified for 12 years when its brand new, and given a 7 year extension after that if the bottle is still in good shape.
 
Are other states similar to that?

[Ranch13]

The propane bottle deal is pretty much regulated across all the states under the federal rules. Including the one that says it's illegal to transport one of the 1lb bottles that have been refilled.

[charles p]

No way to look at a 1 pound bottle and determine if it is new or has been refilled.
 
I drove from NC to the top of a mountain in CO and back with two 20 pound bottles and many 1 pound bottles.  The large bottle was in an open trailer with lots of other elk camp gear.

[Victor3]

The propane bottle deal is pretty much regulated across all the states under the federal rules. Including the one that says it's illegal to transport one of the 1lb bottles that have been refilled.

 Bet Coleman and/or Worthington Cylinders paid their lobbyists a pretty penny to get that one passed. 

[Ranch13]

No it has more to do with the mambee pambee worry warts that tell you every thing else you need to do to keep yourself safe, combined with most likely an idiot or two that blew themselves up.Same place as the opd valves on the 20 and 30lb bottles came from.

[bilmac]

As Algor said concerning campaign finance, there are no campaign police. If it worked for him it must apply to propane bottles too.
I did the kerosine and white gas routine too when I was a kid, it stank, and was always spilling, so I was happy to go to propane, first with 20# bottles and hoses, but the 1#ers much better, FOR CAMPING.
I understand what Ranch is saying about liquid fuel for survival. Liquid has more BTUs per unit of weight and volume. It is also lower tech, not many seals to put you out of business. Propane has an indefinate storeage life, but I would think that kerosine and white gas used to burn would last a long time too.

[spooked]

I refill me 100 lb.'er's and 20lb.er's from me 500gal tank..fill me 1lb.er's from the 20's..have two coleman fuel stoves,one being dualfuel, several lanterns (two of which are dual fuel). and one propane lantern(soon to aquire 1 more), three kerosine lanterns(with fuel stored)(these save my peaches from frost last week!),
Be prepared..

[corbanzo]

Most of my camping is with my scouts...no liquid fuel....no alcohol, so that kind of nails it down.  Butane or propane, of which propane is the cheaper.  Refilling the bottles only winds up costing a few cents.  The 20# tank only holds 5 gal. propane, so when you buy one refilled for upwards of $20.00 you are paying a premium for convenience.   If you have a big tank at home, ask your retailer about a fill hose so you can fill the 20's as well.
 
Ben

You fellas must be somewhere warm!  We use mostly liquid fuel up here.  usually unleaded.  You can't use gas fuels when it's really cold.  Plus with our scouts we try and make long trips - and propane and butane just take up too much room and weight. 

[mechanic]

Most of my camping is with my scouts...no liquid fuel....no alcohol, so that kind of nails it down.  Butane or propane, of which propane is the cheaper.  Refilling the bottles only winds up costing a few cents.  The 20# tank only holds 5 gal. propane, so when you buy one refilled for upwards of $20.00 you are paying a premium for convenience.   If you have a big tank at home, ask your retailer about a fill hose so you can fill the 20's as well.
 
Ben

You fellas must be somewhere warm!  We use mostly liquid fuel up here.  usually unleaded.  You can't use gas fuels when it's really cold.  Plus with our scouts we try and make long trips - and propane and butane just take up too much room and weight. 

Our council has "outlawed" the liquid fuel, esp. alchohol. There have been incidents of spillage and fire where it was not wanted.  I was told at Baloo that it would soon be nationwide....don't know about that for sure.
 
Ben

[corbanzo]

We'll see what the western alaska council says when they tell them to use propane when it's -30....  Sure, come on up national council!  Bring all your propane gear and lets go camping!!  Teach em a lesson.




Not to change the subject on this thread....  But I have found that if you take away something that is possibly unsafe for that reason, you are taking away a valuable lesson.  You are taking away a tool to teach safety and responsibility.  If those scouts are never taught the responsibility, respect, and proper use of those fuels and tools, then they are more likely to make mistakes at other times. 


I've seen one gas accident.  Idiot kid decided his white gas was too heavy to pack back and just poured it on the fire, fire went up into the container, and he dropped it, spill a cup or so and had a nice little six foot wide gas fire goin for a bit.  Do I blame him for bein dumb?  Yes.  Do I blame his parents and the leaders as a whole for making sure that kid of thing doesn't happen?  Absolutely. 


The main problem is - people blame incidents like this on the gas!  It's not the gas's fault!  It seems to me people are too lazy now a days to get down with their kids on things like this and set them straight on what to do and why they do it.  They kick them in the ass out the door and say.... the scouts will teach them....   And that should be partially true, but with volunteer leaders you never know what you are gonna get, and some people just don't have the focus on safety as they should.


When I was in scouts years ago, we used gas, guns, chainsaws, pick axes, snowmachines, machetes, and god knows what else we could of blown ourselves up with an cut our arms off - but we were taught how to use these tools safely and effectively. 


But to bring it back to the original subject... I guess that's part of the reason then don't fill 1#'s - liability.

[blind ear]

Asways set the fuel can downhill from the campsite, especially the fire. The heavy fumes will head down hill. ear

[Victor3]

But to bring it back to the original subject... I guess that's part of the reason then don't fill 1#'s - liability.

 My original post has nothing to do with liability; only practicality. 
 
 
 
 

[Ranch13]

One of the biggest problems using propane for heat, in a camping or similar situation , is if the heater isn't vented to the outside, then you're going to have a major condensation build up. I've had ice from inside a tent just from the condensation of a propane lantern, and a buddy heater.