Algae bio-fuel makes sense..

[ironglow]

  Yes; algae bio-fuel makes sense..... to "greenie" freakos !
 
  http://www.dailytech.com/Navys+New+Experimental+Ship+Runs+on+Algae+Biofuel+Which+Costs+424Gallon/article20018.htm
 
   There goes the stupid Marxists..making our military into their own experimental laboratory.  They have tried social experiments with the personnel, driving some of their best from the ranks.  Now they pull rank to make the military spend some of their hard won military budget on swamp-stuff fuel @ $424 per gallon.
   After the million dollar GSA parties and $200 million 1st family vacations in Spain...should these idiots be surprised that those of us who actually do pay taxes...are disgusted ?
 
  B Hussein forces the Navy to buy fuel for $ 424.00 per gallon..just so hje can say the stuff works..

[Conan The Librarian]

It does make sense. Algae fuels are becoming widespread, such as in California. It's usually refined into diesel because the oils in the algae are naturally much like diesel. It's also refined into jet fuel, and can be refined into gasoline. Interestingly, most of the really interesting work was done in the middle east, starting just over 20 years ago.
 
It's a good alternative to corn and similar fuels, and it can be used in the existing infrastructure with no changes to the gas stations or the cars.
 
It really is a good idea.
 
(But I agree that it's also good to be skeptical about the goodness of these things.)

[KIMBER45]

Europe is way ahead of us in alternative fuel. Our largest export is oil. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/americas-top-export-in-2011-was--fuel/2011/12/31/gIQAzlvgSP_blog.htmlGo figure.

[lakota]

Europe is way ahead of us in alternative fuel. Our largest export is oil. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/americas-top-export-in-2011-was--fuel/2011/12/31/gIQAzlvgSP_blog.htmlGo figure.

Our largest export is fuel-refined petroleum not oil. Imports of crude oil are larger. We are not permitted to utilise our own crude oil.

[powderman]

Europe is way ahead of us in alternative fuel. Our largest export is oil. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/americas-top-export-in-2011-was--fuel/2011/12/31/gIQAzlvgSP_blog.htmlGo figure.

Our largest export is fuel-refined petroleum not oil. Imports of crude oil are larger. We are not permitted to utilise our own crude oil.

 
LAKOTA. Aint that a crock??What kind of logic is that?? And obummer says NOOOO to the pipeline. POWDERMAN. 

[SwampThing762]

Europe is way ahead of us in alternative fuel. Our largest export is oil. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/americas-top-export-in-2011-was--fuel/2011/12/31/gIQAzlvgSP_blog.htmlGo figure.

Our largest export is fuel-refined petroleum not oil. Imports of crude oil are larger. We are not permitted to utilise our own crude oil.

 
LAKOTA. Aint that a crock??What kind of logic is that?? And obummer says NOOOO to the pipeline. POWDERMAN. 

Yup, Obummer says no a pipeline from canada.  I wonder if we can get approval on a one-way, one-use-only pipeline to Kenya.......

ST762

[ironglow]

It does make sense. Algae fuels are becoming widespread, such as in California. It's usually refined into diesel because the oils in the algae are naturally much like diesel. It's also refined into jet fuel, and can be refined into gasoline. Interestingly, most of the really interesting work was done in the middle east, starting just over 20 years ago.
 
It's a good alternative to corn and similar fuels, and it can be used in the existing infrastructure with no changes to the gas stations or the cars.
 
It really is a good idea.
 
(But I agree that it's also good to be skeptical about the goodness of these things.)

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
    Ifd it is such a great fuel and such a bargain; Why is our Navy paying $ 424.00 pergallon for it ?  Note; that is four hundred and twenty four dollars PER GALLON.. not just $4.24 !
 
   If there are some in the group who do not notice the difference between $4.24 and $424.00 .....I guess we can better understand how the liberals in our government can run up such huge debt without any pangs of conscience.    

[KIMBER45]

It does make sense. Algae fuels are becoming widespread, such as in California. It's usually refined into diesel because the oils in the algae are naturally much like diesel. It's also refined into jet fuel, and can be refined into gasoline. Interestingly, most of the really interesting work was done in the middle east, starting just over 20 years ago.
 
It's a good alternative to corn and similar fuels, and it can be used in the existing infrastructure with no changes to the gas stations or the cars.
 
It really is a good idea.
 
(But I agree that it's also good to be skeptical about the goodness of these things.)

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
    Ifd it is such a great fuel and such a bargain; Why is our Navy paying $ 424.00 pergallon for it ?  Note; that is four hundred and twenty four dollars PER GALLON.. not just $4.24 !

Wow that's alot. Where did you get those numbers?

[ironglow]

It does make sense. Algae fuels are becoming widespread, such as in California. It's usually refined into diesel because the oils in the algae are naturally much like diesel. It's also refined into jet fuel, and can be refined into gasoline. Interestingly, most of the really interesting work was done in the middle east, starting just over 20 years ago.
 
It's a good alternative to corn and similar fuels, and it can be used in the existing infrastructure with no changes to the gas stations or the cars.
 
It really is a good idea.
 
(But I agree that it's also good to be skeptical about the goodness of these things.)

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
    Ifd it is such a great fuel and such a bargain; Why is our Navy paying $ 424.00 pergallon for it ?  Note; that is four hundred and twenty four dollars PER GALLON.. not just $4.24 !

Wow that's alot. Where did you get those numbers?

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  Right off the link I posted in the lead post !  Check it out;
 
  http://www.dailytech.com/Navys+New+Experimental+Ship+Runs+on+Algae+Biofuel+Which+Costs+424Gallon/article20018.htm

[jlwilliams]

Algae fuel isn't a bad idea.  Forcing the taxpayer to pay too much for it is.
 
  The problem isn't the fuel, the problem is the fool.

[Dixie Dude]

Exxon has invested $500 million in an algae fuel facility.  It costs about $4 per gallon to produce.  Then if you add the highway tax it runs over $5/gallon.  That is why Obama wants gasoline to go over $5/gallon so he can say algae fuel is cheaper.  As Exxon has proven, it will come on line WHEN oil gets to about $150 per barrel.  It can be grown in greenhouses, either salt or freshwater kind.  For the US to be completely on algae fuel, the greenhouses would cover the area of Rhode Island. 
On the other hand, natural gas is $1.84 per gallon without the tax, and the pipelines are already in place around the country.  Problem is getting service stations to install the compressors for refueling.  GM, Ford, and Chrysler all have said they can produce NG vehicles off the assembly line for the same price as regular vehicles.  Fuel tanks are more expensive than sheet metal gas tanks, but a NG vehicle doesn't need a catalytic converter.  We do not import natural gas.  We have a 100 year supply tapped, a 47 year supply of untapped gas in Alaska but they will not approve a pipeline via the Alaskan highway to the lower 48.  Canada has said they would build to the border, but the US said no.
So, we already have an alternative fuel, that we don't import, but can't us it because it is also a "fossil fuel".
As far as exports go, yes we export Alaskan oil to Japan because we can't get the tankers through the Panama Canal.  Japan then trades us the oil they buy from the middle east.  Shipping is the problem.  They want to build a terminal at Southern California and a pipeline to Texas for refining the Alaskan oil, but NO again to pipeline and terminal.  Might kill some desert animal. 
I hope these democrates on this forum wake up and get anybody but Obama in office to turn the economy around. 

[ironglow]

  So why does the Navy have to pay $424.00 for the algae fuel ?  Is this another Obama-sponsored ..GSA "party time"?
   Where does the extra $420.00 go to ?
 
   On the news this morning..the feds want the military to spend $120,000,000  "researching bio-fuel"..
 
   http://www.sdbj.com/news/2012/mar/26/military-board-green-power/
 
   More "green spending' when our defense forces may need the funds to keep a strong military...   As I see it, the leftists do not and never did like our military..and they want to rip them whenever they get a chance..whenever and however they can do it !

[BUGEYE]

this kind of research should be going on in colleges and universitives. the military doesn't have time for that.

[mechanic]

No matter the fuel source, they want the road taxes.  If you could make your own swamp fuel at home, you would have to pay taxes to be legal.  Even vegetable oil from your local restaurant are taxable if used as fuel.
 
Follow the money.....it ain't about being green...
 
Ben

[ironglow]

this kind of research should be going on in colleges and universitives. the military doesn't have time for that.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  Then too, it is already being done by the big energy companies, and when it is economically feasible, it will be marketable.
  If the politicians want the bio-fuel to come on line earlier..they can offer tax incentives to do so..
   OK so some here distrust the energy companies, and honest overwatch could be installed to observe their conduct..still cheaper than spending billions upon billions of tax dollars.
  Many Universities arr already studying the bio-fuel issue..why bother the military.  Liberals seem to forget; the military has a major mission..that is to "kill people and break things".  Thay are not a muslim 'feel good' society , nor should it be a "meals-on-wheels".
 
   Much being soent in Hawaii on this bio-fuel thing..I don't suppose Senator In-No-Way would have anything to do with that..
 
   http://www.pacom.mil/web/Site_Pages/Media/News_2012/01/12-Agriculture-sec-highligts-us-navy-biofuels-at-pearl-harbor.shtml

[gypsyman]

In July, when this end of Lake Erie has a 2 inch thick by 10 square mile layer of algae, send some of those scientists with big sucker boats and vacum up the stuff. Maybe that way I can get out perch and walleye fishing without my engine overheating in my boat. gypsyman

[Conan The Librarian]

Unfortunately, it takes a special kind of algae that stores large fat globules, so you may be out of luck on Lake Erie.

[BUGEYE]

IG, what you say is sensible.  but sense doesn't work with this administration.

[Dixie Dude]

A lot of things don't make sense. 
 
1.  Diesel gets an average 20% better mileage per gallon than gasoline.  If all vehicles were diesel we could cut imports by 40%.  This without hybrid expense.
2.  Natural gas is already available, especially for fleets, which would cut another 40% total.
 
Just these two alone would almost cut out imported oil. 
 
Diesel will eventually be made from algae.  Natural gas from cow manure waste (about 1/3 - of the current use).
 
If we build the Alaskan highway natural gas line, we already have a 47 year supply up there waiting to be sent down. 
 
The pipeline to Canada (Keystone) would also help. 
 
I say America first, then add Canada because they are friends and not potential enemies.

[BUGEYE]

A lot of things don't make sense. 
 
1.  Diesel gets an average 20% better mileage per gallon than gasoline.  If all vehicles were diesel we could cut imports by 40%.  This without hybrid expense.
2.  Natural gas is already available, especially for fleets, which would cut another 40% total.
 
Just these two alone would almost cut out imported oil. 
 
Diesel will eventually be made from algae.  Natural gas from cow manure waste (about 1/3 - of the current use).
 
If we build the Alaskan highway natural gas line, we already have a 47 year supply up there waiting to be sent down. 
 
The pipeline to Canada (Keystone) would also help. 
 
I say America first, then add Canada because they are friends and not potential enemies.

I love the sound of an idling diesel.  with diesel we could keep our vehicles for 20 years instead of 2 years.

[lakota]

Why does it seem the EPA is so hostile towards diesel? They are constantly touting how great things are in Europe and how we should be more like Europe well dont they drive diesel in Europe?

[ironglow]

     The US is swimming in oil and Natural gas, but you won't see the Obammy administration nor any other far left administration to try to make us free from dependence on foreign or weird sources for our energy.  As I see it, they want to break our nation, so they can pick up the pieces and rebuild it in their image...that is exactly how Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" coaches his radical followers to do it.  Re-elect that gang and the USA is finished...it may be finished already, since the damage they have done in just the last 3 years may be irrepairable.
   They are right now announcing that Obama has put us deeper in debt than any president ever...even those with 2 or more terms.  Obama has the record for debt production.
  Observe..and keep in mind.. every thing they do is an attempt to wreck this nation (IMO).
    See what the old Gunny says about it !;
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCBBv9LVGmc

[mcwoodduck]

If an Algae bio sludge fuel made sense.
Chevron, Shell, BP or other fuel selling company would be making it.
Most of the Bio fuels cost more per gallon, do not have the same caloric value.
Clearly when the Government has to issue a Tax credit, tax incentive or some other support to drive the price down it is not an efficient fuel.  To either make or to use.
Peanut, Vegtable, and other oils may be an alternative fuel but look at the cost of a gallon of peanut oil vs a gallon of diesel.  Assuming they will move a ton of freight the same distance not to mention that the Peanut oil is taking up valuable farm land to make fuel.  That can be pumped from under the ground. 
Now let's ask this.
If the alternative fuels are even 90% of the caloric value would you want to pump it into your Plane?  Knowing that the plane was designed with a motor out put of 100%? 
Let's see Airforce 1 and 2 fly around with Bio fuels before we hand them to the Military to defend us with.

[Conan The Librarian]

I've read up on them, and they are impressive. For example Sapphire Technology is making jet fuel, diesel and gasoline from a crude that is considered very high grade for fuel creation. Cool stuff. This isn't pie in the sky stuff. It's mainstream now.
 
You may have read about one recent test for certification of jet fuel made from it. It was a very expensive flight because of the certification aspect of it, and that's why it made the news.

[tobster]

Let's see......Air Force 1 & 2.need fuel,,Obama wants an alternative fuel, B.S. is a good source of methane...............got to a be a solution in there some where.

[ironglow]

Let's see......Air Force 1 & 2.need fuel,,Obama wants an alternative fuel, B.S. is a good source of methane...............got to a be a solution in there some where.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
  Seems like he would insist they fill the tanks with algae..

[ironglow]

If an Algae bio sludge fuel made sense.
Chevron, Shell, BP or other fuel selling company would be making it.
Most of the Bio fuels cost more per gallon, do not have the same caloric value.
Clearly when the Government has to issue a Tax credit, tax incentive or some other support to drive the price down it is not an efficient fuel.  To either make or to use.
Peanut, Vegtable, and other oils may be an alternative fuel but look at the cost of a gallon of peanut oil vs a gallon of diesel.  Assuming they will move a ton of freight the same distance not to mention that the Peanut oil is taking up valuable farm land to make fuel.  That can be pumped from under the ground. 
Now let's ask this.
If the alternative fuels are even 90% of the caloric value would you want to pump it into your Plane?  Knowing that the plane was designed with a motor out put of 100%? 
Let's see Airforce 1 and 2 fly around with Bio fuels before we hand them to the Military to defend us with.

.
Once upon a time about 120 years ago there were companies making buggy whips...Buggy whip manufacture was perfected and each company thought their buggy whips were the best and better than the other company's. People might have owned 2 or 3 buggy whips, too.
Then one day nobody needed buggy whips any longer......
.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Conan...Yes, fuel from algae sources is very high grade and requires minimal processing for deisel, carbon neutral, and does not require violating the crust of the earth any longer, and creates a feedstock, compost, fert stream as well...I'm kind of a science and technology buff and find this algae fuel quite exciting and of the future. Not only that but hydrogen from algae is very feasible...Others like holding onto their buggy whips....
.
...TM7

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
  Your analogy is so flawed...it backs up exactly what the rest of us are saying.  At this time, the "buggy whips"..that is, petroleum & natural gas sources of energy are still needed.  We have at least 75-100 years of such fuels left, plenty of time to develop other sources of energy and a distribution system for them.  There is no need to destroy our economy and our country along with it..
   Which goes to offer evidence of what I have been saying right along.. the radical leftists use "global warming", "the children", "fairness", "racism", "liberation theology", "redistribution" ...and a host of other excuses and concepts to smash our economy; not because they have any real concern for those issues... but rather as a way to destroy our America..which they dislike so  very intensly.
   We don't need more of that ilk...  we should dump them in November !

[Dixie Dude]

Automobiles would not have become commonplace if it had not been for Henry Ford.  They were expensive and most wouldn't buy them.  He mass produced the simple Model T at about $400 each around 1900.  Nice buggy and a team of horses would cost about the same.  However the Model T had more speed and less upkeep.  Gasoline was around $0.06 a gallon.  With the Model T he provided a tool kit to replace or repair anything on the vehicle.  He made them to run alcohol produced on a farm still or gasoline for city use.  Now, when alternative energy at least equals what we have, then everyone will go to it because it will either be renewable or easier.  Henry Ford was also smart.  He pushed cities, states, and counties to add a tax per gallon on gasoline to pave roads for faster and smoother travel for the vehicles. 
 
The internal combustion engine was invented in the 1860's.  Just wasn't cost effective for vehicle conversion until the late 1800's, about 30 years later.  Normally through history it takes about 30 years for new technology to begin to be cost effective.  The transistor wasn't invented until 1948.  Printed circuit chips were invented in 1958.  Then in the late 70's and early 80's they were cost effective enough to be sold in personal computers.  Television was invented in 1929, but didn't become commonplace until the 1950's.  They were used by bombers in the 1940's with zoom lenses for seeing what to bomb on the ground. 
 
So even today research in being done on breeding algae for more oil production.  They have one now that gives 50% oil to body weight.  When that gets as high as they can get it through cross breeding and/or gene manipulation, we can get the cost down and it can compete.  As oil become higher, even if it is plentiful but harder and more expensive to extract, then algae will come on line. 
 
We will eventually get there, but we can't force it without costs to society and people. 
 
Semi underground homes use far less energy to heat and cool than standard homes, but mortgage companies are reluctant to finance them.  More people have to build them for them to become popular. 
 
Natural gas fuel cells are being studied by gas companies.  The fuel cell would make electricity to run a vehicle, but carbon would be dropped in a storage box under the cell to be emptied as needed, like an oil change.  The fuel cell would release water vapor and drop the carbon in the box.  Excess carbon can be collected and used in carbon composites, graphite for pencils, or other use.  No CO2 released.  Right now natural gas fuel cells are only 40% efficient in conversion to electricity.  It is 95% efficient burned in a turbine. 

[mcwoodduck]

Flawed..?  They had about 4000 years of horses left when the infernal combustion engine became common place...then buggy whips became the way of dinosaurs. Like it or not time and progress march on.  We need 1000% more alternative research right now. You, of all people, are a proponent of NASA, another technology cutting edge outfit and very government money supported; yet you screamed bloody murder when BHO said he was diminishing NASA...NASA probably doing more to eliminate buggy whips than any organization around.
.
How about giving some seed money and a chance for some very inovative research to grow...rather than enforcing a status quo.?? Even DD has said that Algae fuels look very promising and Big Oil is looking into the technology.....'send no ships out--expect none to return'
.
..TM7

I have a problem with research money from the government.
The whole Man Made Global Warming LIE came from a search for grant money to study climate change.  The more they showed flawed Data to gather more research Dollars.
Instead of handing out money to study something.  Why not offer a prize.
Set a goal, a renewable fuel that is 95% caloric value of diesel and offer what we whould have wasted on research as the prize.
The problem with grants for research is they use up far more $ proving they copuld be correct than they should.  After all if you are running a lab that is looking for the cure for cancer using spider venom and ever spider so far has not proven effective how many times do you need to try combination of those venoms to know it will not work.  But you have your salary to contend with as well as your staffs and you falsafy data showing promise to keep the grant $ flowing.
Completely inefficient! and a waste of time and money.

[ironglow]

  Private investors would take care of it ..if the government woiuld just "butt out"..  The government didn't interfere when the mneed for buggy whips (or buggies) died out; the companies who had the foresight to convert from buggies to automobiles survived and thrived..those without the vision would die....
   That's liberty and capitolism..two wonderful ideas..
                                                   ...especially when compared to slavery and government mandates..