Author Topic: Heads up rural folk  (Read 761 times)

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Offline Ranch13

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Heads up rural folk
« on: April 18, 2012, 07:45:11 AM »
This just came today, it could get to be expensive and troublesome for rural folk  ???
EPA GAVE A PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD OF AG ON THIS SPCC rule.  This rule has the potential to affect producers in our state. I wanted to pass this on so everyone is aware and help get the word to producers. 
 
Those affected:
 
Is my farm covered by SPCC?
 
SPCC applies to a farm which:
 
Stores, transfers, uses, or consumes oil or oil products, such as diesel fuel, gasoline, lube oil, hydraulic oil, adjuvant oil, crop oil, vegetable oil, or animal fat; and
 
Stores more than 1,320 US gallons in aboveground containers or more than 42,000 US gallons in completely buried containers; and
 
Could reasonably be expected to discharge oil to waters of the US or adjoining shorelines, such as interstate waters, intrastate lakes, rivers, and streams.
 



The purpose of the Spill Prevention Control and Countermeasure Rule is to help facilities prevent a discharge of oil into water. A key element of the SPCC rule requires facilities (including some farms) to develop, maintain and implement an oil spill prevention plan, called a SPCC Plan. These plans help prevent an oil spill, as well as control a spill should one occur. A basic fact sheet describing what the requirements are for farms may be found here: http://www.epa.gov/oem/docs/oil/spcc/spccfarms.pdf

EPA has an agriculture-specific webpage for SPCC that includes a number of compliance assistance tools, including example SPCC plans, presentations, and mySPCC, a tool that was developed with the Fertilizer Institute for the agriculture sector. This website may be found at: http://www.epa.gov/oem/content/spcc/spcc_ag.htm The website also has a really good Q/A at the bottom that answers many of the commonly asked questions.

A question came up on what EPA requires for secondary containment for oil storage. The fact sheet above has some information regarding what can be used, as well as a sample SPCC plan, which talks about some secondary containment examples as well. http://www.epa.gov/osweroe1/docs/oil/spcc/sample_plan.pdf

In addition, EPA Region 8 is also evaluating opportunities where we may provide further outreach, such as providing compliance assistance information at trade shows, upcoming meetings, or conferences. We'd be happy to hear if you know of opportunities where we can provide information.

Please feel free to contact myself, or Melissa Payan, our Oil Program Coordinator ((303)312-6511) at any time with any questions you may have. We'd be happy to discuss the SPCC program with you and answer your questions.

Thanks,

Jennifer (Meints) Schuller
Agriculture Advisor
Office of the Regional Administrator
EPA Region 8
1595 Wynkoop Street
Denver, Colorado 80202-1129
Phone: 303.312.6334
Fax: 303.312.6882



 
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 08:09:50 AM »
I won't be Mr. Popularity for posting this, but I'm surprised there isn't a lot more of this kind of thing. My in-laws' farm is a small 400 acre farm, and pollutes a lot, just like all the other farms I know of that size. Lots of run-off into rivers. Lots of pesticides and fertilizers. Most of the pollution in central minnesota is farm runoff, and it's bad stuff. If a factory tried to do what they do, they'd be shut down.

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 08:25:24 AM »
Old news.
GuzziJohn

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 08:31:15 AM »
Bet there's more runoff from the town nearby than there is from that farm, but the farm is an easy target.
Fertilizer and pesticide application rates are strictly managed on farms, but there is no limit's and nobody checking on how much fertlizer John Q townman puts on his lawn and flower bed.
 The farm operator tests the soil to see how much of what fertilizer ingredient needs to be applied, there probably isn't a homowner in town or a subdivision that even has a clue as to what the ph of the garden or flower bed is.
 The towns and subdivision have lots of concrete and pavement that run all the chemical runoff from spilled/leaking oil in the driveways and spilled gas and household cleaners right straight into the storm drains that dump into the nearest convenient place... The average farm yard about the same size sits on a 400 acre plot of land, the average town/subdivision house sits on a lot adjacent to the one just like it, and so on and so forth covering a plot of land twice that of the small farm.
 Yet with all that some think the farm is responsible for the pollution..... Just simply baffling and amazing all at the same time.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 04:24:03 AM »
Suburban types with gardens that go to farmers markets, or raise a few animals for sale, need to pay heed to this as well. Under the who's affected it lists anybody that sells 1000$ worth of ag product. Generally even someone selling firewood is considered selling ag products....
Also if you have your small acreage and livestock you may want to keep abreast of the tightening of the the AFO?CAFO regulations. That has been causing no shortage of headache since November when the EPA started launching this stuff.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 04:59:37 AM »
It's all about control.  and you're right about parking lots.  the parking spaces have a layer of oil and grease that you could peel up with a scraper.
EPA under this administration is strictly communists.
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 05:14:43 AM »
Yup the backdoor commendering of private property rights this adminstrations EPA, and dept of Labor have taken on is just purely offensive to the American way of life.
 Buried in the new AFO/CAFO regs is a little diddy about if you keep animals in the same place for more than 45 days in a calendar year...... Guess what ,,, anybody that grazes a pasture for more than 45 days in the year just found themselves a CAFO requardless of how many head..... How long until this grabs folks with 2 dogs in the backyard?
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 05:39:19 AM »
there probably isn't a homowner in town or a subdivision that even has a clue as to what the ph of the garden or flower bed is.

Oh, Oh, oh, oh...I do, I do!!!!  ;D

But then I don't use fertilizer or any other chemicals on my garden or lawn either. 8) For 20 years I've been mulching with my grass clippings and tilling it into the soil every spring. Keeps weeds down as mulch, and ends up fertilizing when tilled back into the soil :)
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 05:44:30 AM »
Cuts as long as you don't sell 1000$ worth of stuff off of it you're in good shape, but once you do that that tiller may get replaced with a 5 ft. shovel. :D
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 06:28:25 AM »
Cuts as long as you don't sell 1000$ worth of stuff off of it you're in good shape, but once you do that that tiller may get replaced with a 5 ft. shovel. :D

"they can have my tiller when they pry it from my cold dead hands" ;D ;D ;D :o
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 07:07:04 AM »
Is there a good reason that a farm business should be exempt from good management practices as it pertains to petroleum? Don't give me the sob story of my "daddy was", or "we feed americur by God".


I did not just fall off the turnip truck. Farms pollute right along with the rest of society. Fertilizers run off of farms, period, end of story, wish all you want but it happens. Fuel spills happen, rivers flood the tanks float away, leaving the tank area the chisel plow swings into the tank and ruptures it, farmers bury tanks and fittings without knowing of or understanding galvanic corrosion. Waste oil gets "used" for other purposes from burning stumps to killing weeds, poured into transfer pumps during the winter to keep them from locking up ( they are promptly dumped come spring to avoid contaminating the livestock water supply).


These are just a few of the things I have witnessed or been guilty of myself. Per acre a town is polluting more than a farm, duh.  A farm / farmer pollutes a vast amount more on a per person basis than a city dweller ever could.  Financially,  how could you afford to? Where on earth could a city boy put 70,000#s of DAP or 28%? How could he manage to collect 10,000 gallons of hog manure? It makes sense to spend your time where it produces the most return. That means one gov't official spends one day on one farm and is able to work a plan that covers large amounts of potential risk. If you have a fly problem in the kitchen where do you go first? You close the door, one great big hole. Next you address the holes in the window screens.


Simple fact is this is (finally)your ox is being gored. I don't blame you for being upset, I did not like a single plan I had to implement when I ran a fertilizer plant. I worked up SARA title II plans, OSHA training plans. All this for 4 full time employees and 3 seasonals.  I did the back breaking labor of building the elephant walls to contain fertilizer tanks. I cleaned, filled and sealed minibulk chemical tanks, I've punctured triple rinsed and burned enough 2.5 gallon jugs to store a good part of Lake Superior. Sprayed 200k acres with pesticides from open cabs to charcoal filtered air systems in just 10 years.


Now guess what. The fertilizer industry is cleaner now than it was when I left. When I left it was far cleaner than it was when I started ten short years earlier. Am I supposed to believe it was not worth it? Everyone likes to squall about regulations. I hear the same squalling about atrazine in well water,  one oil well in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico and the world is gone crazy. Toss 50 gallons of oil into your local water supply or how about one gallon down your own well, now we are talking a problem, eh?


Get over it, it has been done wrong in the past and now it is time to get it right. Pollution is your cross to bear. For your great great grand daddy it was busting virgin prairie with horses. Great grand daddy dug tile by hand and fed threshing machines by hand. Grand dad learned how to be a mechanic and electrician working on early tractors, or milking parlors with no spare parts or any other sort of "convenience" while feeding a nation at war. Dad had to learn how to be a marketing expert, and a shrewd manager of time and input costs, he used machinery and chemicals to cover an amount of acreage thought inconceivable without slavery a mere 120 years earlier. Now you have to do all this without making a mess of the environment, you'll get over it, the world will prosper in spite of or perhaps because of these efforts.
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2012, 07:17:14 AM »
The Minnesota river near Granite Falls is one of the most polluted waterways in America. It's all from farm runoff. The Mississippi river above the confluence with the Minnesota flows through a series of medium size cities, and a metropolitan area with over 3 million people in it. It's surprisingly clean, considering the some lingering pollutants from the past and the size of the watershed.
 
I have watched trout streams killed by farm runoff, and have seen medium size smallmouth rivers so polluted that most species were killed off. We routinely have fish kills directly traced back to farm runoff. In a state with a lot of factories, we should expect more problems from those factories, but it's the farms that cause the most problems.
 
The practices of farming with practically no consideration for the damage done needs to change.
 
The dead zones in the Gulf near the mouth of the Mississippi, and the dead zone in Florida Bay are directly attributed to farming practices, not cities. It's a national scandal.

Offline Goatwhiskers

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2012, 07:36:45 AM »
Gentlemen, gentlemen, please show your manners.  Don't complain with your mouth full.  Goat

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2012, 07:44:52 AM »
A lot of the farm products have nothing to do with food, so that argument doesn't quite fly. And much of what is related to food is for the production of "junk food", like high fructose corn syrup. A better argument would be "don't complain while you're driving a flex fuel vehicle in the midwest."
 
It does work in the case of Florida, which does raise a lot of produce for food.

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2012, 07:52:48 AM »
$1000.00 ?
IIRC it takes $1500.00 a year sold off the farm either in products or rent to stay classified as a farm.
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2012, 08:03:27 AM »
The irony is that the small garden type farmers I know of that supply a local market are not a problem. They're pretty non-invasive, and tend to use organic methods because that's where the best return on their effort is.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2012, 08:03:51 AM »
You cannot raise food stuffs with a containment structure on the farm? Good waste management practices mean you cannot farm?


What it means is you won't be doing it the same way your daddy did. Ask grand dad what he thinks of all the chemical and oil products that are spilled about the farm, is that what he remembers as a kid? Is he okay with all that crap laying about? Was his dad worried about his well being contaminated with oil and ag pesticides? I'm guessing they kept the livestock pens away from the well head.


Thousands of years experience has taught men to not crap where they eat. We are getting the same education about pesticides and petroleum that we received about sanitation and food handling. Would you think of going to a surgeon who did not wash his instruments? What about a butcher shop that wasn't worried about cleaning up the saws every day. It was all too recently these practices were common and assumed good management of a business.


Are the regs written in eight layers of legalize mumbo jumbo, sure they are. I'm not hearing any complaint about verbiage, I'm hearing "leave me alone to decide what is good for me". That would be alright if the problems stayed put for ever more.
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2012, 11:18:15 AM »
 
This is simply a heads up for rural folks and small acreage types so that they might not get caught unaware. It's going to be costly for some in  production ag, that there's no doubt. It may catch some folks by the blind side and be costly.
Longtom yes if you read the regs it says 1000$ in ag sales. That's going to catch some by surprise.
 It always amazes me at the total abject ignorance some have about farms and farming, and the assinine assertion by some of those low functioning types that think farmer and ranchers just willy nilly run loose polluting everything they can.  What a bunch of embasylls.
 
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline ironglow

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2012, 11:36:56 AM »
I won't be Mr. Popularity for posting this, but I'm surprised there isn't a lot more of this kind of thing. My in-laws' farm is a small 400 acre farm, and pollutes a lot, just like all the other farms I know of that size. Lots of run-off into rivers. Lots of pesticides and fertilizers. Most of the pollution in central minnesota is farm runoff, and it's bad stuff. If a factory tried to do what they do, they'd be shut down.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
  Take it up with your father-in-law..tell him to stop or you will turn him in...to the control-freak police.. ;)
 
   There's probably more toxic runoff from one DNC convention than you papa's farm ever produced... :D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Heads up rural folk
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2012, 01:10:58 PM »
Now we get word there's a pilot program thru the USDA to provide funding thru the EQIP program in 9 states to see what it's going to take to comply with these regulations. ::)  Oh boy we get to spend more Chinese money that the government will have to borrow, to try and keep up with more EPA reg's.....  >:(
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....