UNSAFE Muzzleloaders? FAQ

[RandyWakeman]

UNSAFE Muzzleloaders? FAQ

Q. Are many muzzleloaders sold today "unsafe" when used as directed?
A. I really don't know: that's why there is a question mark at the end of "Muzzleloaders".

Q. Why was the question asked in the first place?
A. In the course of testing several current production muzzleloaders for videotape projects and test reviews, I noticed that the barrels were stamped with a proof mark 700 kp/cm2, and questioned the respective manufacturers about this, along with ALL manufacturers whose guns were tested.

Q. Why would this be cause for concern?
A. 700 kp/cm2 means 700 kiloponds / cm2, the same measurement as 700 kg/cm2, works out to 9957.326 PSI. Readily available, independent data such as found in the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Reloading Manual, 2nd Ed., written by Sam Fadala, shows that a 100 grain load of Pyrodex pellets pushing a 240 grain Hornady Sabot develops 20,200 PSI: over DOUBLE the pressure the barrel is proofed to. A 3 pellet load, 150 grains of Pyrodex pellets, develops 27,000 PSI. This specific example is found on page 172 of the Lyman book, other examples abound, some with markedly higher pressures.

Q. How was this data collected?
A. Through Lyman Ballistic Laboratories. The pressure data listed was produced using five shot test strings, using piezo-electric pressure transducers.

Q. Are those "proof marks" real, and what do they mean?
A. According to the CIP, which sets the international standards for proofing, and the well-respected Spanish House of Eibar Proof house, the Birmingham Proof House, and other sources-- they are absolutely legitimate definitive proof marks. It means that those barrels are proofed to a level of at least 9958 PSI, and nothing further. No reputable gunsmith or firearms authority would EVER, or HAS ever (to my knowledge) suggested that proof mark pressure levels be approached, much less exceeded.

Q. Does that alone mean the barrels will blow up?
A. No, it does not. It just means that they are proofed to a bit less than 10,000 PSI. Using round ball loads in the area of 7500 PSI or so, there is reason to believe they are quite safe. Unfortunately, the owners' manuals that come with these muzzleloaders, in many cases, direct the consumer that the above mentioned 20,000 PSI and 25,000 PSI loads are allowable loads, and suggest their use.

Q. How do we know they are proven safe?
A. Exactly! We don't. That's why the question was asked of all the manufacturers of these muzzleloaders: are your guns tested to 20,000 PSI? Are they tested to 25,000 PSI?

Q. Who asked the questions, and what was the response?
A. I did, as well as Toby Bridges, Patrick White, and several other concerned muzzleloaders. Several companies had no trouble quickly answering "yes." They include White Rifles, Savage Arms, Austin & Halleck, Knight Rifles, and Thompson / Center Arms.

Q. Okay, what companies were troubled by the question?
A. Only three: Remington Arms, Traditions Performance Firearms, and BPI / CVA / Winchester Muzzleloading. They all declined to answer. Traditions and CVA became extremely defensive, with a V-P of Traditions calling me "anti-Second Amendment," and BPI / CVA booting me from their bulletin board-- as were others. A V-P of CVA called shortly thereafter, informing me that, "all BPI employees has been instructed to have no contact with me in any way." Traditions took the peculiar step of calling a competitor, Austin & Halleck, asking as to "what they were going to do about Randy Wakeman?" The reply they received apparently was not what they were looking for, "Everything Randy said was correct. We are going to continue to improve our products, and continue with our in-house and off-site testing. What are you going to do?"

Q. Do you work for any firearms manufacturer?
A. No. That adds considerably to their consternation.

Q. Who else of any renown in the muzzleloading community felt these questions were legitimate?
A. Chris Hodgdon of Hodgdon Powder, Dan Hall of Powerbelt Bullets, Del Ramsey of MMP (inventor of the modern muzzleloading sabot), Larry Weishuhn, Henry Ball (inventor of The Savage 10-ML), Doc White (inventor of several White Rifles), and several others.

Q. What is Hodgdon powder's position on "three pellet"; so-called magnum 150 grain loads?
A. Very simple. As printed on every box of Pyrodex and Triple Seven pellets sold, 100 grains is the maximum allowable charge. As Hodgdon has said repeatedly : "Beyond that, you are on your own."

Q. Have their been recent examples of inadequately tested or produced guns causing injury?
A. Yes, and hardly isolated. So many people filed personal injury lawsuits against the "old CVA" due to defective barreled actions that the company was forced out of business. Apparently, a "60 Minutes Expose" of Remington has not convinced them to change their questionable "Walker Trigger." The now defunct, older "H & R Huntsman" had a quick-release breech plug design that killed a Thompson test shooter, and others. NEF / H & R is now under the ownership of Marlin Firearms, and the too-quick release breech plug has long ago been corrected.

Q. If people were getting hurt, wouldn't I know about it?
A. If it was you, personally, of course. Are you aware of the exact numbers of CVA Apollo and Remington 700 injuries? Are you aware of other industry related deaths such as those from the Pyrodex plant explosions? Are you familiar with the recent Goex plant explosion? Those are public events-- haven't you heard?

Q. Why do you think it is fundamental to know maximum "TESTED SAFE" pressures?
A. For the very reason that EVERY major smokeless powder manufacturer publishes "DO NOT EXCEED" or "MAXIMUM LOAD" information. The actual "burst pressure" is unimportant, the maximum "SAFE LEVEL" is there so we can be sure to stay below it-- and never tempt fate by going over it. If you are a muzzleloader, you ARE a reloader. Convention as to safe, well-proven loads has no reason to be withheld from responsible shooters and hunters. Most folks are not suicidal-- otherwise, there would be far less of us.

Q. Randy, why do you personally want to know?
A. A gun's barrel stares me in the face that gives a legitimate proof level of sub-10,000 PSI. A manual that states it is "okay" to use loads producing 20,000 PSI of hot gas right next to my face accompanies it. I ask if that gun has EVER been tested to 20,000 PSI? To 25,000 PSI? The manufacturer cannot answer that simple question. I want to know by what logic this situation exists! For the entry-level price of a $140, I can pick up an "American Knight" that has no such issues. My opinion is that ANY company that cannot confidently, quickly address safety-related questions is richly deserving of nothing but disdain. We all have better things to do than to pay our money to take on unknown levels of completely unnecessary risk. Don't you?

For more information, see:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/unsafe_muzzleloaders.htm