Author Topic: wish i had swampys midas touch! (Read 2973 times)

Swampman · « **Reply #30 on:** May 10, 2012, 05:01:22 AM »

That's why you guys never get best accuracy. You worry about velocity and muzzle flash.....etc...

Ranch13 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 10, 2012, 05:32:44 AM »

Sorry swampy but your guesstimation on accuracy is flat wrong. The accuracy bit is why I can speak from experience as to what powders work the best in which cartridges in my rifles..... 4831 is great in a bunch of others, but it's a last ditch and only on a have to basis in the 06, there are so many other powders that work better for me. Of course I realize individuals and their rifles are all different. So if 4831 works for you in the 06 that makes me very happy... however when I use it in the 06 it doesn't make me very happy.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #32 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:29:23 AM »

4831 is borderline to slow for the o6, especially with 150 and 165s you really have to compress it to get enough powder in to get any kind of velocity. I did get a bit better accuracy today. 150 sierras with 62 grains of 4831 and 165 seirras with 60 grains of 4831 both went a tad under an inch and a half for 5 shots. I shot them twice to make sure. the group with the 165s had three touching but they werent the first 3 so that doesnt count. Those loads used ww primers so i loaded some of the same with ww primers today and also loaded some more with a stiffer charge of ramshot hunter. Ill get back there tommarow to try these. I guess at inch and a half it doesnt need to get sold right away anyway.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:43:29 AM »

Sounds like you might be on the right path Lloyd. How are you liking the Hunter powder? The only Ramshot I've used is Big Game, and it sure makes the 30-30 ai sit up and pay attention, velocity isn't especially great , but it'll make that Marlin capable of headshooting coyotes and antelope to 200 yds.

Swampman · « **Reply #34 on:** May 10, 2012, 07:41:47 AM »

The only .30-06 M77 I've ever owned went from about 4 to 5 MOA to less than 1/4 MOA with IMR-4831 and 150 grain bullets.

ratdog · « **Reply #35 on:** May 10, 2012, 08:16:52 PM »

i feel your pain i get rid of all the rifles that don't shoot at least a 1-1/2 inch group using a scope i try different loads i have only had one one handy rifle in a 357 pistol caliber that would not shoot well. remy fixed me up with a new one problem solved. the only ruger rifle i own is a 10-22 it's a shooter.try a few more different loads looks like your getting there.good luck.

yooper77 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 10, 2012, 09:11:52 PM »

I have tried IMR-4831 in my German Mauser in 30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved, but this rifle likes IMR-4350 best with 150 to 165 grain bullets.

I get the best performance out of my Ruger M77 MKII in 270 Winchester wearing a 22 inch barrel with IMR-4831 and any 150 grain bullet, less Barnes bullets of course.

yooper77

cwlongshot · « **Reply #37 on:** May 10, 2012, 11:23:41 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on May 10, 2012, 07:41:47 AM

The only .30-06 M77 I've ever owned went from about 4 to 5 MOA to less than 1/4 MOA with IMR-4831 and 150 grain bullets.

Thank you swamp,

You started my day with a smile... You really are a very funny man.

CW

saddlebum · « **Reply #38 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:20:23 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on May 10, 2012, 11:23:41 PM

Thank you swamp,

You started my day with a smile... You really are a very funny man.

CW

Quote from: Swampman on May 10, 2012, 05:01:22 AM

That's why you guys never get best accuracy. You worry about velocity and muzzle flash.....etc...

I thought this one was pretty funny too!

Savage · « **Reply #39 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:24:06 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on May 10, 2012, 11:23:41 PM

Quote from: Swampman on May 10, 2012, 07:41:47 AM
The only .30-06 M77 I've ever owned went from about 4 to 5 MOA to less than 1/4 MOA with IMR-4831 and 150 grain bullets.

Thank you swamp,

You started my day with a smile... You really are a very funny man.

CW

Made my day as well!!

Savage

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #40 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:52:29 AM »

wana bet those were the magic 150 corelocks

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #41 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:55:09 AM »

sorry ranch i made a booboo the ramshot i have is big game not hunter. I dont know why i said hunter could be because ive been thinking on picking some up to try.

Quote from: Ranch13 on May 10, 2012, 06:43:29 AM

Sounds like you might be on the right path Lloyd. How are you liking the Hunter powder? The only Ramshot I've used is Big Game, and it sure makes the 30-30 ai sit up and pay attention, velocity isn't especially great , but it'll make that Marlin capable of headshooting coyotes and antelope to 200 yds.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 11, 2012, 03:41:16 AM »

Not a problem Lloyd. I bought that can of Big Game with the intentions of developing some loads in the 405 with it. By the time I got thru messing with the 30-30 ai, there wasn't enough of it left to really do anything else with it. I never have got around to getting another can , it's weird but here we are 300 miles from Miles City and the Ramshot powders are hard to find...

Drilling Man · « **Reply #43 on:** May 11, 2012, 04:02:25 AM »

This is probably the best, most accurate load i've found for my 30-06's,

It's my "one load for everything!"

DM

cwlongshot · « **Reply #44 on:** May 11, 2012, 08:08:24 AM »

NICE SHOOTING DM!!

I have been lucky. All my '06 shoot a long time publicized loading of IMR4350 and a 180g bullet. Shoots plenty good for me! Mines not even a corlokt but it probably is in Rem brass

CW

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #45 on:** May 11, 2012, 09:35:32 AM »

well the big game didnt pan out. I had a o6 mossberg for a while that just loved that stuff. So ive elimated big game 4350 and 4831. Midway order just came and its got 3 more bullets to try. A 150 ballistic tip, a 150 speer flat base and a 165 speer flat base. Ive got them and all the other bullets ive been trying loaded up with 4064. this will be the LAST attempt at finding that luck load. Ive probably shot a 100 dollars worth of bullets through it allready and i aint wasting no more!! Maybe the trick to this gun is 180s, I dont know but for what i want to use it for there just to heavy. Tell you one thing though, this has been the finikiest 06 ive ever worked with.

Quote from: Ranch13 on May 11, 2012, 03:41:16 AM

Not a problem Lloyd. I bought that can of Big Game with the intentions of developing some loads in the 405 with it. By the time I got thru messing with the 30-30 ai, there wasn't enough of it left to really do anything else with it. I never have got around to getting another can , it's weird but here we are 300 miles from Miles City and the Ramshot powders are hard to find...

Ranch13 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 11, 2012, 11:20:29 AM »

Lloyd just out of curiosity has that rifle ever been shot with cast bullets, and have you looked to see if it's overloaded with copper fouling. and how does the crown look?

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #47 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:25:26 PM »

no, when i got it at most it was just test fired, it was bough local and I know the owner and he wasnt even a handloader. he won the gun at a whitetails banquette and said he shot 3 rounds through it just to hear it go bang and by looking at it when i got it i have to believe him. I lapped the barrel because it was fouling badly. It doesnt foul as much now but still is far from copper free when i clean it. . the crown looks good to me. Personaly i think its just another one of rugers crap barrels.

Quote from: Ranch13 on May 11, 2012, 11:20:29 AM

Lloyd just out of curiosity has that rifle ever been shot with cast bullets, and have you looked to see if it's overloaded with copper fouling. and how does the crown look?

Ranch13 · « **Reply #48 on:** May 11, 2012, 01:39:03 PM »

Could be that or the bedding, or sometimes if it's a cheap scope parallax can make for some pretty crappy groups.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #49 on:** May 11, 2012, 03:06:23 PM »

I know what you mean about 180's lloyd... I load two different bullets in my '06's...

A 180g Mostly of Sierra Spitzer flavor but some RN as well. The the Hornady 220G RN . Thats from a 2 groove Springfield barrel, that absolutely drills them!

I load one loading for my hunting buddie with 150g Norma boat tail bullets. Mostly because he is cheap and I have about 500 of them that I will likely never use otherwise. That and because he has complete faith in the bullet and his Winchester M70. I have to admit the does shoot well for a box stock 250$ Walmart Winny with a plastic stock. It has taken me fifteen years to get him to but a good scope and that happened last year when he dropped his gun again and broke the scope. (Not broke just shifted zero) SAME this has happened to him every couple years... To prove to him a quality scope will not shift zero we whacked one of my leupolds with a rubber mallet and shot it, whacked and shot untill he was satisfied... MY zero never shifted. I found a used Nikon from a member here and paid for it then his wife made him buy it from me... He he he he, but it was for his own good, now he has a good setup and he likes it!!
If I need to shoot a 150g I'll pick up a 300 Savage... My 308 is a 165g shooter and the '06 a 180g+... I'm strange like that.

CW

rugerfan.64 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 11, 2012, 04:16:26 PM »

Lloyd I feel your pain. I have struggled with certian firearms to get them to shoot. It has just dawned on me as to why none of anyone elses rifles shoot as well as Swampys Remingtons. We float barrels,bed actions,try every imaginable combination of powder,bullets,primers,brass. To our dismay nothing will get to that magical 1/4" group that Swampy gets with out of the box Remingtons and Corelokt ammo. It finally occured to me,its not our reloading methods nor our rifles or technique. Its the dang tape measure or caliper we are using. We've all been using standard inches. Swampy has apparently been using something else. Its not that we need Swampy to teach us to shoot or reload,we need him to teach us how to measure!!!

Drilling Man · « **Reply #51 on:** May 11, 2012, 04:30:20 PM »

Quote from: rugerfan.64 on May 11, 2012, 04:16:26 PM

Lloyd I feel your pain. I have struggled with certian firearms to get them to shoot. It has just dawned on me as to why none of anyone elses rifles shoot as well as Swampys Remingtons. We float barrels,bed actions,try every imaginable combination of powder,bullets,primers,brass. To our dismay nothing will get to that magical 1/4" group that Swampy gets with out of the box Remingtons and Corelokt ammo. It finally occured to me,its not our reloading methods nor our rifles or technique. Its the dang tape measure or caliper we are using. We've all been using standard inches. Swampy has apparently been using something else. Its not that we need Swampy to teach us to shoot or reload,we need him to teach us how to measure!!!

Just get on the same "meds" swampy is on, and you will see the same things he does! lol

DM

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #52 on:** May 12, 2012, 12:08:54 AM »

I bedded the stock in the middle of this ordeal hoping that was the problem. It didnt help. The scope is a proven 4200 bushnell so i really doubt if its the problem. I even lapped the rings.

Quote from: Ranch13 on May 11, 2012, 01:39:03 PM

Could be that or the bedding, or sometimes if it's a cheap scope parallax can make for some pretty crappy groups.

jedman · « **Reply #53 on:** May 12, 2012, 12:57:36 AM »

After reading all of the work that you have put into this Ruger and it still is a 1 1/2 MOA shooter, its got to be a bad barrel. $:-\$ Jed

Swampman · « **Reply #54 on:** May 12, 2012, 03:31:01 AM »

Being a good shot really helps.

RevGeo · « **Reply #55 on:** May 12, 2012, 05:13:22 AM »

I've never found reason to complain about a hunting rifle that shoots into an inch and a half, but maybe that is just me. The best results I've had with the 30-06 using 150-165gr bullets has been with H380 and IMR4064 and vintage RWS primers (though I doubt the primers have much to do with it; I have a bunch them on hand). I think the medium burn-rate powders work pretty well with the old cartridges, especially with relatively light bullets.

This thread has been a fun read.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #56 on:** May 12, 2012, 07:20:17 AM »

The rough bores are generally the reason 77s like 180 gr in 06. You really need to hand lap the bad spots that are left in the bore if you get a rainy day sometime. That may let you get down to 150s one day. Most likely you will always have to shoot a few grains under max to let the bullet exit when the barrel is settling down. For now try 4350 57-57.5 on the 165. Also upward pressure 2-3 inches from the end of the forearm. The reason for the lighter load and pressure on barrel are both harmonics. This should get you closer to the inch or under depending on how much copper fowling is still being left. From what I have ran into with them a recrown usually doesn't do much either unless you can see pits with a magnifying glass.
77s are a pain to deal with. 180s in general don't expand as well for deer size game. So if you want the most accuracy and decent expansion you usually have to go with a non game bullet like a 180 matchking or some premium 180 gr bullet to get expansion and a couple grains under max to slow the bullet exiting the barrel. 165s can be a compromise if enough of the roughness is taken out. 150s if it is like a mirror and no copper fowling is building up.

Swampman · « **Reply #57 on:** May 12, 2012, 02:46:16 PM »

180 grain Core-Lokts work fine on deer.

jedman · « **Reply #58 on:** May 13, 2012, 01:08:15 AM »

A friend has a Ruger MK 1 in SS and its a 30-06, A few years ago I loaded him a couple of boxes of ammo for it with 150 gr Nosler BT's. The load I used is the one listed on the lable on a 1 lb. bottle of Varget. I think it was 52 grs. of Varget with the 150 BT bullets. This load shot under 1" without any load work up he was real happy with it and thats all he shoots now. Luckey I guess, thats the only experience with a M 77 in 06 I have. Jed

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #59 on:** May 14, 2012, 12:06:06 PM »

I havent forgoten you guys. I just havent been able to get out shooting for a couple days to try that last batch of loads. I doubt tommarow either as were suppose to get thunderstorms all day and ive got some lake trout brining for the smoker tomarow but maybe ill get out wendsday and try them.