Hard cast vs. jacketed hollow point

[steeladmin]

I'm going to use a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt this year for deer. I was feeling pretty confident with my chosen load of a 275 cast FN at about 1000-1050 fps. I will be using iron sights and shots will be limited to 50m. A friend of mine shot a doe this year at about 50 yds or so with a 480 Ruger Encore pushing a 375 FN at 1050 fps. He nearly took one of the front legs off, but she still went 100 yds and there was almost no blood trail. We hunt in some pretty thick woods, and most of our shots are just before dark. He shared that a 200 gr HP from his 44 mag at about 1200 fps put a similar sized doe down much quicker and left a huge blood trail coming out both sides. Please share your thoughts on keeping with the big cast, or going to a lighter HP for whitetail.


Jason

[Casull]

Honestly, from what I've seen, either will do the trick.  I've had bang flops from both.  But, sometimes an animal just dies harder with no apparent reason.  I mostly shoot 300 gn hardcast out of a .454, loaded to about 1700 fps.  Should be enough to put down a rhino.  I know it will penetrate about 10" of live green pine.  I shot a smallish doe a few years back, hitting her on the point of the shoulder.  She ran off about 40 yards and laid down, but with her head up and alert.  Put another in her chest.  She tried to get back up, so I put one in her neck.  She was still writhing a bit, so another to the neck.  That's 1200 gns of lead in a 110 pound doe.  When dressing her out, I found that the first shot broke her shoulder, took out the lungs and exited through an offside rib.  Second shot destroyed the liver.  I still don't know what kept her going.  I dropped a buck of about 150 pounds with that same load.  Facing me at 40 yards, the bullet entered the chest just below the neck, raked 3 ribs, breaking them, destroyed the lungs and entered the right ham, stopping about 1 inch shy of exiting the rear.  All in all, over 4 feet of penetration.  He dropped like he was poleaxed.  You just never know.

[Paladin]

no matter what ya use, ya have to make a good shot into the vitals. practice,practice,practice !!!!!

[steeladmin]

Both of his shots were in the right spot, and I have no doubt that I can put it in the vitals. The lack of blood, and the distance traveled after being shot is what concerns me.

[Ken ONeill]

Both bullet types will kill deer. My experiences have convinced me that hollowpoints will usually kill deer faster / in shorter distances. In my .45 Colt Blackhawks, I select the Hornady 250 gr. XTP. I load it to about 1200 fps with 19.5 gr. 2400, straight out of Hornady's manual.

[kynardsj]

As was mentioned before, both will do the job quite well with correct shot placement. But as we all know, correct shot placement is the key with any round that's suitable for whitetail. Deer just go bang flop sometimes while others shot in the same place keep on going for what seems forever.

[Bigeasy]

Jason
 
I have shot a fair number of deer using the 44 mag with both flat nose hard cast, and JHP's.  A have found the cast bullets almost always penetrate deeper, and usually leave a good blood trail.  On whitetail sized game, however, a good hollow point, like the XTP will usually drop a deer a little quicker, especially on heart / lung shots, and provide adequate penetration.  I usually carry hard cast in my revolvers, but I often hunt in an area where black bear are in season at the same time, and there is always a chance for a moose encounter to go bad.
 
Its hard to judge a deers reaction based on only a couple shots.  I have had deer run off with solid chest shots with a 30-06, and had them fall where they stood when hit with .357 mag using the same hold.
 
Larry

[buck460XVR]

For deer with .357 and .44, I prefer a JSP to Hardcast or JHP, as I feel they still expand and create a larger hole but will still penetrate and punch a hole in both sides. I also use the same load in my revolvers and the carbines.  Most pistol caliber HP bullets are designed to expand at  handgun velocities and the increased velocity  of a rifle tends to make them disintegrate. HPs designed for velocities of a  .480 or .460 are designed for those velocities and will generally hold up well. My experience with hardcast on deer is pass-thru penetration, but no expansion with the exit hole the same sizer as the entrance hole. I find blood trails from hardcast to be lighter with more blood left in the cavity. This is especially true with fat deer.  With a .45 you have the option of using bullets designed for true .45 LC velocities or those designed with tougher jackets intended for use in .454 and .460. At Ruger .45LC velocities those types of HPs should have similar terminal performance of a JSP. JMTC.

[Casull]

Most pistol caliber HP bullets are designed to expand at  handgun velocities and the increased velocity  of a rifle tends to make them disintegrate.

 
 
That may be true with .357, but for years I hunted with a muzzle loader with 240 gn jhp .44 bullets in a sabot.  Velocity about the same as a .44 mag out of a rifle.  After taking about 15 deer with this setup, I've NEVER seen one disintegrate on a deer.  Heck, I never recovered one.

[Larry Gibson]

Both bullet types will kill deer. My experiences have convinced me that hollowpoints will usually kill deer faster / in shorter distances. In my .45 Colt Blackhawks, I select the Hornady 250 gr. XTP. I load it to about 1200 fps with 19.5 gr. 2400, straight out of Hornady's manual.

+1, mirrors my sentiments and experiences and recommendations.  Both will kill and if you confidence in that load then use it.  However, a good HP that expands properly, cast or jacketed will kill deer quicker which means they won't go as far.  That means you do less tracking stand less chance of losing the deer.
 
Larry Gibson

[steeladmin]

Ok then. I will get some 250 XTP's and give them a try. If they are as accurate as my cast bullets, I will hunt them this season. Thanks for the help.


Jason

[StrawHat]

Years ago I quit using jacketed bullets and went to cast bullets exclusively.  In the 45 long Colt, I load a 260 grain lead bullet over black powder and get complete penetration on white tailed deer, providing a good blood trail if they go very far.  Most don't.  As has been said, picking the shot and placing the bullet usually results in game in the freezer.

[dantana]

I'm going to use a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt this year for deer. I was feeling pretty confident with my chosen load of a 275 cast FN at about 1000-1050 fps. I will be using iron sights and shots will be limited to 50m. A friend of mine shot a doe this year at about 50 yds or so with a 480 Ruger Encore pushing a 375 FN at 1050 fps. He nearly took one of the front legs off, but she still went 100 yds and there was almost no blood trail. We hunt in some pretty thick woods, and most of our shots are just before dark. He shared that a 200 gr HP from his 44 mag at about 1200 fps put a similar sized doe down much quicker and left a huge blood trail coming out both sides. Please share your thoughts on keeping with the big cast, or going to a lighter HP for whitetail.


Jason

From the testing I have done the Hornady 250 grain FTX is the best bullet for whitetails.  The 225 grain does not perform well at 45 colt speeds.  Please look at bullets on my site http://www.grizzlywinmag.com/

[irold]

Both bullet types will kill deer. My experiences have convinced me that hollowpoints will usually kill deer faster / in shorter distances. In my .45 Colt Blackhawks, I select the Hornady 250 gr. XTP. I load it to about 1200 fps with 19.5 gr. 2400, straight out of Hornady's manual.

+1, mirrors my sentiments and experiences and recommendations.  Both will kill and if you confidence in that load then use it.  However, a good HP that expands properly, cast or jacketed will kill deer quicker which means they won't go as far.  That means you do less tracking stand less chance of losing the deer.
 
 
 
My opinion to a tee ........
 
Lots of opinions on this subject.  Unless your going after BIG game , and/or dangerous game , a XTP on deer sized game placed in the right spot will do the trick.  I've taken 8-10 deer with various handguns ,  had only one "bang flop " ( that was with a 15", 460 encore, not a"real" handgun), yea , a couple were less than desirable hits....but the rest were good hits in the vitals.....generally , they went 25 to 50 yards. ( more or less ) Point is , as someone else pointed out......ya need to be able to track em. Good luck ,
 
regards , irold
 

[rong]

Hello , did the OP say that the 454 nearly
took the front leg off? If so was this just a leg
hit or did the round go thru the body first
and then destroy the leg?
ron

[tacklebury]

I like a good low velocity HP in my .45 Colt Blackhawk.  I use Sierra Sportsmaster 240 gr. HP for sub 1200 fps loads as its made to open from 800 to 1200.  Currently carrying it with 10 gr. Unique and getting good accuracy at pistol ranges. 

[Lloyd Smale]

Cast your own hollow points! cool thing about doing that is you control what alloy there made from and can control expansion and velocity ranges they work at rather then rely on a factory one size fits all velocity bullet

[temmi]

For the 480R I would (AND do) use a Speer 325g Soft point (not hollow point) and push it about 1300-1500ft/sec.
 
With 300-MP you can send it up 1600ft/sec.
 
I have no Idea why you did not get an exit wound but you should be able to get one with the Speers.
 
Snake

[tacklebury]

Cast your own hollow points! cool thing about doing that is you control what alloy there made from and can control expansion and velocity ranges they work at rather then rely on a factory one size fits all velocity bullet

Soon, soon.  Got the melting pot and goodies, but only molds so far are my BP RB molds.  hehe

[Lloyd Smale]

get going on it. Ive got a couple buckshot molds you could borrow for your black powder project.

Cast your own hollow points! cool thing about doing that is you control what alloy there made from and can control expansion and velocity ranges they work at rather then rely on a factory one size fits all velocity bullet

Soon, soon.  Got the melting pot and goodies, but only molds so far are my BP RB molds.  hehe

[tacklebury]

Yah, currently living in a suburban neighborhood.  Wife won't allow the lead pot inside and city won't allow it outside.  Start anything with smoke and since I'm a couple blocks from the fire dept. you'll get a visit real quick.  If I want to cast now, I have to load all my gear and drive out to my dad's spread outside of town.  Kind of a pain.  Hopefully, we'll be moving out of town soon though.
 
I do appreciat the thought though Lloyd on the molds. 

[steeladmin]

I used to cast my own, but work and bunches of babies cut down on available time. That and the fact that my casting partner (we owned the equipment together before he bought me out) has moved over 4hrs away.


It was a 480 Ruger, not a 454 and yes, it nearly removed the offside leg after passing completely through. My friend said the entrance and exit wounds were the same size.

[dantana]

Here are some loads that will work in your colt.  I thing the Hornady 250 FTX will be your best.  The 225 grain FTX did not perform uniform.