Reasons why the death penality should be abolished !!

[SHOOTALL]

We are not suppose to commit murder but forgive . That said we muse deter some from crimes that hurt others. It would seen that in cases with hard evidence such as someone saw the guy kill the other guy there would be no doubt or DNA evidence to free the bad guy. Circumstancal evidence should not be used in death penalty cases only life cases. Also the cops should build the case then find the bad guy not find a guy and build a case around him.

[bluedog6]

Every time an inmate is exonerated is not a sign that the system is working, it is a sign that the system failed in the first place. Many times a person has spent 10-15 20, years of their life locked up. While I do agree that the Gacy's, Dahmer's, and Bundy's should be put to death, but not at the risk of killing one innocent person. The U.S. is considered a World leader in human rights, a citizen of this country should never be in fear of being wrongfully evecuted.

[Cuts Crooked]

While I do agree that the Gacy's, Dahmer's, and Bundy's should be put to death, but not at the risk of killing one innocent person.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. I know liberals want to have their cake and eat it too, but reality has a way of disappointing them time and time again.

[Casull]

Every time an inmate is exonerated is not a sign that the system is working, it is a sign that the system failed in the first place.

 
 
That simply is not true.  The system includes the appeals process.  So, every time an inmate is exonerated, the system has worked.

[lakota]

I'll be happy to talk about eliminating the death penalty as long as we also talk about prison reform as in eliminating their gym facilities, eliminating their access to TV, eliminating their access to internet, eliminating their ability to get free college education, eliminating their free time with which to go to the prison library and go through law books and file frivoulous lawsuits, while we are at it lets eliminate the prison library too. Lets only provide nessacary medical care and not even consider forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for inmates sex change operations. In short lets make prison a little more unpleasant, you know like a prison and less like a country club.
 
Dont tell me I am wrong. I have worked in several juristictions and have responded to medical calls at several county lockups and one Super Max. They dont have it as bad as you think they do.
 
The lockup in my county was built by a court order. An inmate brought a suit against the county claiming the old lockup didnt have "adequate recreational facilities". The judge agreed and ordered the county to build the lavish palace we have today. They didnt even want to put a fence around it because the facility was "escape proof" and they did not want it to look "intimidating" to arriving inmates. The township it was built in forced them to put a razorwire fence around it.

[SHOOTALL]

Lakota , I have worked in several - local , state and toured a federal one for a bid . Some med security jails are as you decribe most max I have been in are not so plush. And no I have not been in all. But one thing is for sure I don't ever want to go in another one even to work . Some of the inmates are dangerous beyond belief. Some are not far above animal behavior. I have seen then do things that would get this thread shut down if I posted it and me sent packing.
We now have the tools in place to check DNA before the trial or even the arrest. Those who were convicted before it was aval. are reeping the benifit of it now good for them . So whats so wrong really ?

[lakota]

I'm not talking about the animals housed there. I am talking about the overall facilitiy. In one of them there were TV's all over the place.(I'll give you one guess as to which one that was!) Before we would arrive they would have the animals penned up so we would only have to deal with one of them. One night we got called in because like a bunch of feral dogs they turned on a new arrival and broke his neck. So I have no doubt the clientele makes it ugly but just to look at the interior of this jail it almost had a health club atmosphere to it. I never saw first hand but I had heard rumors there was a swimming pool in it too.
 
This is the "court ordered" jail I am talking about because it by far takes the trophy out of the 4 I have been in.

[powderman]

I'll be happy to talk about eliminating the death penalty as long as we also talk about prison reform as in eliminating their gym facilities, eliminating their access to TV, eliminating their access to internet, eliminating their ability to get free college education, eliminating their free time with which to go to the prison library and go through law books and file frivoulous lawsuits, while we are at it lets eliminate the prison library too. Lets only provide nessacary medical care and not even consider forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for inmates sex change operations. In short lets make prison a little more unpleasant, you know like a prison and less like a country club.

 
LAKOTA. Agreed Sir. Prisons are supposed to punish, not coddle. I'd love to see a lot more like Joe Arpaio runs. Now that, is a prison. We owe these scum nothing, provide the essentials to live, nothing more, nothing less. POWDERMAN. 

[scootrd]

I'll be happy to talk about eliminating the death penalty as long as we also talk about prison reform as in eliminating their gym facilities, eliminating their access to TV, eliminating their access to internet, eliminating their ability to get free college education, eliminating their free time with which to go to the prison library and go through law books and file frivoulous lawsuits, while we are at it lets eliminate the prison library too. Lets only provide necessary medical care and not even consider forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for inmates sex change operations. In short lets make prison a little more unpleasant, you know like a prison and less like a country club.
 
Dont tell me I am wrong.

You are not wrong , I do not believe in death penalty, However as in my previous statement I am not soft on crime. I believe prison is for punishment not rehabilitation. It's purpose is not there to be a country club. I believe "hard" time for life is a much worse sentence than death. execution is the easy way out of paying penance for a wrong committed. 

[lakota]

LAKOTA. Agreed Sir. Prisons are supposed to punish, not coddle. I'd love to see a lot more like Joe Arpaio runs. Now that, is a prison. We owe these scum nothing, provide the essentials to live, nothing more, nothing less. POWDERMAN. 

Exactly. If a cot inside a hot tent is good enough for a military service member then it is more than good enough for a prison inmate.

[guzzijohn]

County jails also hold people that are waiting trial and have not yet been convicted of anything. I feel that those folk should be detained separate form the inmates that are serving time time after a conviction and should have a bit better living quarters.
GuzziJohn

[Casull]

County jails also hold people that are waiting trial and have not yet been convicted of anything. I feel that those folk should be detained separate form the inmates that are serving time time after a conviction and should have a bit better living quarters.

 
 
That actually makes a lot of sense. 

[SHOOTALL]

I'm not talking about the animals housed there. I am talking about the overall facilitiy. In one of them there were TV's all over the place.(I'll give you one guess as to which one that was!) Before we would arrive they would have the animals penned up so we would only have to deal with one of them. One night we got called in because like a bunch of feral dogs they turned on a new arrival and broke his neck. So I have no doubt the clientele makes it ugly but just to look at the interior of this jail it almost had a health club atmosphere to it. I never saw first hand but I had heard rumors there was a swimming pool in it too.
 
This is the "court ordered" jail I am talking about because it by far takes the trophy out of the 4 I have been in.

I like the one in Az    tents and pink outfits. Like I said the med security ones here are somewhat like you stated if not exact. We did about 8 200 man buildings , they were divided 100 beds on each side with a bath roon at the end of each and a guard booth that could see both sides. BTW when using the bath roon the other 99 inmates could watch you shower , shave etc as the wall was only a 42 inch wall.

[lakota]

What made me even more angry about this county jail was the fact that it was two doors down from the county nursing home. Guess what? The seniors at the home lived in squalor.

[yellowtail3]

I think we can do without the death penalty for this reason: when the price includes likely executing innocents - and that is part of the price? - the price is too high. Dead men don't get exonerated.


And prosecutors aren't about justice or truth, they're about winning.


I understand the death penalty appeals to certain personalities... The sorts that also celebrate prison rape as proper punishment, and who whine about 'libby judges' - they just haven't though it out yet, preferring the comfort of the familiar positions.

[Casull]

I understand the death penalty appeals to certain personalities... The sorts that also celebrate prison rape as proper punishment,

 
 
My, my.  Looking down your nose yet again on those of us that believe the death penalty is an appropriate punishment in certain situations.  I'm just happy I'm not subject to your "understanding", which seems to be rather limited.

[Casull]

And prosecutors aren't about justice or truth, they're about winning.

 
 
Really?  All of them?  Must be awesome to have the ability to read minds and see into another's heart.

[scootrd]

Judging by the majority of countries that support the death penalty, can't say we are in the best of the worlds company of nations.

 - Just an observation

The United States is the only western nation that still uses capital punishment.
The United States and Japan and perhaps arguably Taiwan appear to be the only fully developed industrialized
countries that still have a death penalty.

Gives one pause for thought regarding what constitutes a civilized nation? 
 
countries that have death penalty -

Afghanistan Bahrain Bangladesh Belarus Botswana Chad China (People's Republic) Congo (Democratic Republic) Cuba Egypt Ethiopia Guinea Guyana India Indonesia Iran Iraq Japan Jordan Kuwait Lebanon Lesotho Libya Malaysia Mongolia Nigeria North Korea Oman Pakistan Palestinian Authority Qatar Saudi Arabia Sierra Leone Singapore Somalia Sudan Syria Taiwan Thailand Uganda United Arab Emirates Vietnam Yemen Zimbabwe.

[Casull]

Scootrd, I've never really been a believer in doing or not doing something based on what everyone else does.  Must have been from dad and that whole "if the other guys jump off the house does that mean you should" argument.

[SHOOTALL]

What made me even more angry about this county jail was the fact that it was two doors down from the county nursing home. Guess what? The seniors at the home lived in squalor.

see that here also
 

[yellowtail3]

And prosecutors aren't about justice or truth, they're about winning.

Really?  All of them?  Must be awesome to have the ability to read minds and see into another's heart.

No need to see into hearts... Just a little exposure to the profession and familiarity with it is all it takes. Those inside will have a harder time seeing it, since it's their rice bowl.

Justice - tha is, JUSTICE - is better served by some who need killing' being locked away, than killing them and also risk (REAL RISK) killing some innocents.

I understand the death penalty appeals to certain personalities... The sorts that also celebrate prison rape as proper punishment,

My, my.  Looking down your nose yet again on those of us that believe the death penalty is an appropriate punishment in certain situations.

no looking down nose.... Just a little observation. And reading of posts. Are you genuinely bothered? Are you Offended?

[Scibaer]

i think we dont kill enough bad guy with the death sentance.
 i can site all sorts of data on the subject, but the bottom line is, there are some very sick type A sociopaths out there that society needs to be free from. and our court system needs to get moving and get rid of on behalf of all concerned .

[KIMBER45]

LAKOTA. Agreed Sir. Prisons are supposed to punish, not coddle. I'd love to see a lot more like Joe Arpaio runs. Now that, is a prison. We owe these scum nothing, provide the essentials to live, nothing more, nothing less. POWDERMAN. 

Exactly. If a cot inside a hot tent is good enough for a military service member then it is more than good enough for a prison inmate.

That is an excellent point.

[KIMBER45]

i think we dont kill enough bad guy with the death sentance.
 i can site all sorts of data on the subject, but the bottom line is, there are some very sick type A sociopaths out there that society needs to be free from. and our court system needs to get moving and get rid of on behalf of all concerned .

So if a person has a severe mental illness rendering him incapable of being responsible for his actions, he should be killed.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Kimber45:
"So if a person has a severe mental illness rendering him incapable of being responsible for his actions, he should be killed.


I bet you that several posts will come up to support that notion.
GuzziJohn

[Casull]

 

Quote from Kimber45:
"So if a person has a severe mental illness rendering him incapable of being responsible for his actions, he should be killed.


I bet you that several posts will come up to support that notion.
GuzziJohn

         You two might want to read up a bit before you point fingers for alleged abuses.  Being a sociopath does not constitute a mental illness that would preclude one from knowing right from wrong.  A sociopath knows the difference, but just doesn't care.  I would wager that most, if not all, serial killers are sociopaths.  But, maybe one of you would like to take them into your homes when parolled.

[DDZ]

I would guess the majority of people with a severe mental illness do not have access to guns, knives, etc...

There are a few thousand innocent lives snuffed out every day, but I know some of you anti death penalty people have never voiced a concern about that. Oh, thats right its legal to murder babies. Funny how its ok to forgo certain peoples rights if they can't be seen. Then make a big fuss about a murderer being put to death. Where is the logic in that?
If one of the arguments is, that its worse for a murderer to spend his life in jail, what is the issue with putting him to death then? Haven't figured that argument out yet.

Someone in an earlier post commented that anti abortion people are pro death penalty. As if there is no difference between the two.

[Casull]

Someone in an earlier post commented that anti abortion people are pro death penalty. As if there is no difference between the two.

 
 
Yeah, I always find that argument kind of funny, since those that are anti death penalty are usually the same ones that are pro abortion.

[Scibaer]

So if a person has a severe mental illness rendering him incapable of being responsible for his actions, he should be killed.?

yes, persons with sociopathlogical disorders, or oppositional defiant personalities , once they commit lethal crimes ( and they all do eventually ) should be put to death.

people that butcher other humans, serial killers and the like, are 100% sociopaths, type A persons who do not have empathy or capable of feeling emotions like everyone else and take pleasure from others suffering and death. think about the son of sam, the zodiac killer,
 ed geen, or guys like that.  you want them in public ?  not me.

im not limiting the death penality to just them, buts its a good place to start.

abortion ? not the same issue at all.

thing about this.. a mom has a 2 yr old or 5 yr old child. she decides that she no longer wants to care for the child, so she sticks a steel
rod into the childs brain, killing it, then chop the child into pieces... wrong and evil ? uh yes most surely.
so if that same mom, decides to do the same while the child is in the womb, how is that any different ? its not really.
the old arguement about the child have consiousness is fundamental and irrevelant .

[bluedog6]

While I do agree that the Gacy's, Dahmer's, and Bundy's should be put to death, but not at the risk of killing one innocent person.

 I am far from a liberal. I am pro gun, anti abortion, and favor a strict immigration policy, and until about a year ago I was for the death penalty. I did a college paper and researched the subject and can no longer support it. There is no doubt that there are peple who are hopeless and need put to death, but we can not do this and risk killing an innocent person. Life sentences at least give the system time to right its wrongs.