70mpg Autos Made in USA...but you're not allowed to have them..

[Dixie Dude]

Most of the one's I saw were for 30's to 40's mpg. 
 
I know we can cut all imported oil by doing only 3 things:
 
1) Build more diesel cars and/or hybrid cars
 
2) Drill for more oil onshore, offshore, and in Alaska
 
3) Use more natural gas for vehicles, especially in fleets.
 
These three things can be implemented within 5-10 years IF the government would get out of the way and allow it to happen. 
 
This would do 3 things:
 
1) Put more Americans to work, in good paying jobs with health insurance.
 
2) Cut our trade deficit in half, which would help the economy to grow even more.
 
3) With the growing economy, it would help give the Feds more tax revenue, which if done right, would cut down the national debt. 
 
Simple solutions, no new technology, using off the shelf equipment that is already being manufactured.
 
WHY will the Feds not do this?  Because the idealists want more dependents, alternative energy and or less driving and smaller cars, get away from the oil and gas industry even if it kills our economy. 

[LONGTOM]

To answere some of these questions.
 
KIMBER45
The increase in pressure was not near enough to harm my motor.
It would have had to have been much higher than I was building to do any damage.
The important thing was to keep the pistons cool.
That was the primary job for the water injection.
It also cooled the fuel which made it more dense witch allowed you to inject more into the chamber and thus by taking up more space in the combustion chamber you in effect increased pressure, compression ratio, more power.
 
yellowtail3
No, I did not know Tom Ogle.
The man I was referring to was a local racer/machinist named Pat Goodman.

PATENTS:
Patents that were bought up by whoever belong to them until they expire.
The owner has the right to renew them each time, for a price.
Ideas that were not patented were bought out right and are the sole propriety of the buyer but they may be coppied by anyone at any time as long as a patent has not been applied for.
Anyone can research any patent and with a number of changes made from the original can apply for a new patent in their name.
Even if it does the same thing as long as enough has been changed to not cause a patent infringement.
If a patent is allowed to run out/expire, then it may be picked up and a new patent applied for by the new person without any changes.
This is my understanding of some of the patent laws.
There are so many rules associated with the process that you would need a lawyer to figure them all out!

 
 
LONGTOM
 
 

[mcwoodduck]

I just compared the beetles and the city mileage in the UK versions is what the highway mileage in the US is.

Are you sure that is not KPH to MPH
70 kph is about 42 MPH  that seems about normal for a bug

[blind ear]

I Googled some of these patents.  Lots of ideas were patented.  However, they may not work on today's fuel injected electronicly controled vehicles.  Cars today get a lot better mileage than they did in the early 70's.  I had a 1970 Monte Carlo that I bought in 73 used.  Had a 350 engine.  Got 11-13mpg.  At 55 mph a few years later I got 14.  Today a car with that much interior room is more efficient and gets at least in the upper teens to low 20's mpg.  One reason for SUV's that became popular in the 80's was they were built on truck frames.  Families wanted something big enough for everyone to ride in and have space for sports equipment or groceries.  Trucks had a lower mpg limit than cars and SUV's had the room and they were classified trucks.
 
Cars have gone back up in size somewhat but still get decent mileage now.

-
OT: Many SUVs are classed as trucks. Many business owners can get a tax deduction for a truck and even though the vehicle is used as a family car it is still used as a tax deduction. Happens all the time. ear

[Casull]

Patents that were bought up by whoever belong to them until they expire.
The owner has the right to renew them each time, for a price.

 
 
 
I've never practiced patent law, but I do not think a patent can be "renewed".  If they could, then an idea could be held in perpetuity by an individual(s) or company.  The whole idea of a patent is to protect the inventor for a period of time until he/she/it can reap the benefit of that idea.  It is not a neverending thing.

[LONGTOM]

Patents that were bought up by whoever belong to them until they expire.
The owner has the right to renew them each time, for a price.

 
 
 
I've never practiced patent law, but I do not think a patent can be "renewed".  If they could, then an idea could be held in perpetuity by an individual(s) or company.  The whole idea of a patent is to protect the inventor for a period of time until he/she/it can reap the benefit of that idea.  It is not a neverending thing.

 
After doing some checking it looks like I was mistaken.
Patents can not be renewed.
Looks like you were right Casull, my mistake!
Sorry for the misinformation.
 
 
LONGTOM

[Dixie Dude]

By former supervisors wife had a VW Beetle diesel, and she got 52 mpg on the highway at 70mph on the interstate.  I saw a news article yesterday that people who bought hybrids a few years back are not buying them now.  My SIL bought a Honda Civic that got in the low 30's mpg because she commutes 50 miles one way each day to work via the interstate.  They looked at a Prius.  The cost difference and the cost of gasoline at $3/gallon would buy enough gas to go for 10 years of commuting.  This was a couple of years back before gas got over $3.  Hybrids do not pay off yet, but diesels, being less than hybrids, might pay off with long term use.  The engines also last longer.  Someone here in another thread had an F-250 diesel truck that ran 200,000 miles without any engine overhauls.  Only oil and filter changes.  Some gasoline engines have gone that long also. 

[magooch]

According to the "One", you can up your gas mileage by simply tuning up your engine and checking the air pressure in your tires.  So who needs turbo diesels and hybrids?

[Casull]

If you change a design, add or delete from a design, or update the theory/function of the design you can patent again.

 
 
Only the "change", not the original design.

[International harvester]

Ford will has its 1.0 litre turbo gas Focus available in Europe, I hope we get to see it here. 

[Conan The Librarian]

Hillbill:
Thats my experience too. Some of these pocket rockets really perform well.

[ppine]

Dixie,
I like your post with one exception.  The US is already an exporter of refined fuels.  Oil companies sell to the highest bidders which are often overseas, especially China and India.  Increasing domestic production won't help the price problems at home because a lot of that fuel goes somewhere else.

I have worked on air quality problems as a consultant.  I believe that the EPA has overstepped logical bounds regarding fuel mileage and smog control.  We have greatly improved air quality in this country at the expense of gas mileage and durability.  We should make some exemptions for diesels and allow more of them in the US.  We really need a half-ton pick-up with a 6 cylinder diesel, and a small pick-up with a 4 cylinder diesel.

[Hooker]

In 1983 I bought the wife a  new Olds Delta 88 with a 5.0 V8 ( 307 Olds) engine curb weight 3600 lbs a big car.
The Olds averaged 26 - 27 mpg @ 70 mph which it would run effortlessly. The ride was very comfortable large roomy interior, and road noise in the cabin was 0.
Power from the carburated V8 was excellent car was rear wheel drive with a framed chassis.

Fast forward to now to get an American made vehicle that gets similar fuel economy you have to give up at least 1000 lbs of curb weight, 1/2 the interior room, all of the ride quality, the safety of a steel frame chassis, a quiet road noise free ride. All of that and you gain on average 2-3 mpg.

That's politically progressive technological advancement at it's best right there. If we want to fix the American automotive industry tell the idiots in Washington to quit telling them how to build cars. Let's face it if these idiots had the skills and educational back ground to be automotive engineers they wouldn't be leaching off the tax payers.

Or you could take the shortcut and vote me in as dictator I promise to make everyone adhere to the Constitution and get rid of all the federal  alphabet bureaucracies. 

Pat

[yellowtail3]

In 1983 I bought the wife a  new Olds Delta 88 with a 5.0 V8 ( 307 Olds) engine curb weight 3600 lbs a big car.
The Olds averaged 26 - 27 mpg @ 70 mph which it would run effortlessly. The ride was very comfortable large roomy interior, and road noise in the cabin was 0.

avg 26-27mpg from 5.0 Delta 88? Pretty good, that.
 

Fast forward to now to get an American made vehicle that gets similar fuel economy you have to give up at least 1000 lbs of curb weight, 1/2 the interior room, all of the ride quality, the safety of a steel frame chassis, a quiet road noise free ride. All of that and you gain on average 2-3 mpg.

we'd have to pick a specific modern car to compare, but something comparable to the 88 today will be much safer, have a LOT more power and handle a LOT better... and prob get more than just 2-3mpg extra (real world) than the old Olds. Cars are pretty heavy these days.
 
Just this last week I had a rental... four door Dodge Avenger, 2.4L four... amazing the performance and refinement it got. Hit right at 29-30mpg, a fair amount of which was in the mountains. It was alright. Imagine how much fun it would have been with a bigger engine (it didn't neet one)

[mcwoodduck]

Ford will has its 1.0 litre turbo gas Focus available in Europe, I hope we get to see it here.

Didn't we see something like that here in hte late 80's early 90's call the GEO.  It was a 3 Cylinder 1 liter car that flopped as people hated them. As they were under powered and casued a problem at highways speeds and they could not go that fast. I think top speed was 55 to 60 with a stong tail wind and a 20% down grade. How can a Ford version be good?  My guess is it too will be uinder powered for anything but a commuter car.  Maybe as a second car but it would be dangerous to hand one to your daughter to go to college in.

[Conan The Librarian]

Things have changed a lot since the late 80s, and I think a 1 liter today can work.  Maybe not the best highway car, but still serviceable. Can't be worse than the SmartCar. I did work for a guy who had a Geo back then and it was used exclusively for his long commute. He liked it a lot, and he was an amateur stock car racer who appreciated power. He liked the gas mileage and operating costs. His other car was a big diesel van for towing.
 
Put a nice car around it, with safety features and sound deadenting features and better handling (i.e., higher price point) and it might get more acceptance today than it did back then. $4 per gallon is pretty punishing for us suburbanites.
 
VW has one that I think is still experimental called the one liter, I think. But it's not what you think. It's that it can go 100 kilometers on a liter of fuel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car
 
Things are changing, finally. I remember that for too long after the 1970s energy crisis not much progress was made, and now a lot of good things are happening that will ensure that we have cars well into the future.

[mcwoodduck]

I remember Dad buying a 1980 toyota Tracell SR5 in 1979 for 6500 and it got 35 MPH back then with a carberator. 
It was a solid little car with a 1.8 L motor that was fast for the size.
Compared with Mom's 98 Olds, the Buick Station wagon and Dad's company car.  it was about 6 times as fuel efficient.
Also remember that we did not have the caffe standards that took metal out of cars and the cars were safer.  Mom's Olds could take a hit by another olds or buick and we would not get hurt.  the toyota was strong and bounced off a gard rail that totaled a later model.
Other than the addition of a fuel injection the only difference between cars then and now is the amount of plastic and alloys in the cars

[Conan The Librarian]

That Tercell was a great car. My buddy had one that he used to tow a 20 foot fiberglass sailboat. I always thought he'd destroy the transmission, but that thing was bullet proof. Comfortable too.

[mcwoodduck]

My friends called mine the Japanese Porsche.
It was reliable and quick, and we a lot with that little car.
I think I went through 4 clutches over it's 300,000 Mile life, well at least the time I had it.
Dad sold it when I was in College and bought my own car.