Should Christians support Obama ?

[ironglow]

  Listen to historian, Biblical scholar and political consultant, David Barton:
 
        Dr. David Barton is more of a historian than a Biblical speaker, but very famous for his knowledge of historical facts as well as Biblical truths. Dr. David Barton - on Obama Respect the Office? Yes. Respect the Man in the Office? No, I am sorry to say. I have noted that many elected officials, both Democrats and Republicans, called upon America to unite behind Obama. Well, I want to make it clear to all who will listen that I AM NOT uniting behind Obama! I will respect the Office which he holds, and I will acknowledge his abilities as an orator and wordsmith and pray for him, BUT that is it. I have begun today to see what I can do to make sure that he is a one-term President! Why am I doing this? It is because: - I do not share Obama's vision or value system for America;- I do not share his Abortion beliefs; - I do not share his radical Marxist's concept of re-distributing wealth; - I do not share his stated views on raising taxes on those who make$150,000+ (the ceiling has been changed three times since August); - I do not share his view that America is Arrogant; - I do not share his view that America is not a Christian Nation; - I do not share his view that the military should be reduced by 25%; - I do not share his view of amnesty and giving more to illegals than our American Citizens who need help; - I do not share his views on homosexuality and his definition of marriage; - I do not share his views that Radical Islam is our friend and Israel is our enemy who should give up any land; - I do not share his spiritual beliefs (at least the ones he has made public); - I do not share his beliefs on how to re-work the healthcare system in America; - I do not share his Strategic views of the Middle East; and - I certainly do not share his plan to sit down with terrorist regimes such as Iran.Bottom line: my America is vastly different from Obama's, and I have a higher obligation to my Country and my GOD to do what is Right!    

[kynardsj]

Amen Brother !!!

[just-an-illusion]

AMEN,AMEN,AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Now, how can we get ALL red blooded AMERICANS to read this and AGREE?

[SwampThing762]

In a word....no.

ST762

[Alaska Dave]

Obummer has made being the president of the United States into a joke. Oh, that;s right, he is a joke 

[cwall]

Actually, nobody should support Obama.
CWall

[yellowtail3]

Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes.

[keith44]

AMEN Ironglow, my brother in Christ.

[rio grande]

 
God doesn't want us to sit down with others in an effort to solve our differences without bloodshed?
 

[DDZ]

Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes.

To tell the truth, David Barton is a Christian, and he is a very intelligent historian. Obviously you never have heard him speak. Or you have, and just hate what he has to say. That happens many times when the truth is told.   

[ironglow]

  From Yellowtail;
 
       "Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes." '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''   YT;   Your statement proves you don't have a clue to the stature of David Barton..and no, he does NOT wear robes..        00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000     From Rio Grande;       " God doesn't want us to sit down with others in an effort to solve our differences without bloodshed?" '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''       Rio;   Again; your statement seems a bit disjointed.   
 A) It seems to imply that Obama is the ONLY one who can effect successful diplomacy...WRONG   
 B) You are presuming that the Obama administration's diplomatic efforts usually benefit the US..WRONG (IMO)   
C) You seem to think Obama has prevented bloodshed..where?  Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan and Syria ?     
     You also purport to know what God wants and doesn't want.  If that were true, you would know that He would want allegiance to Himself....which he is not getting from the Obamanites and sad to say, from a sizeable portion of the US population.
   A large portion of the population of the US has deserted God's precepts and many more are being led astray, but God has already warned us that such would happen.   
   If you knew God..you would know that he would not want the National Day of Prayer kicked out of the capitol building in favor a day of Islam prayer.     
  If you knew God, you would realize that killing little boys & girls in the womb, is not His plan, yet the Obamanites want to pour more of OUR tax money into that effort.
    If you knew Him, you would know food stamps and multigenerational parasitism is not His plan..but the Obamanites are promoting just that ! (II Thess 3:10)     
 
 
  I could go on and on..ad nauseum, but those who have ears..have already heard... 

[BUGEYE]

For 20 years he sat in a so-called church and listened to a so-called preacher pray that God would damn America...  it was politically expedient to do so...
once elected, he traveled the world preaching that we were NOT a Christian nation.
our constitution, based on Christian principles, is, according to him, a flawed document.

those are the facts. anyone who tries to sugarcoat them, gives God a slap in the face.
his stance on abortion makes jack kevorkian look like an innocent lamb.

[yellowtail3]

To tell the truth, David Barton is a Christian, and he is a very intelligent historian. Obviously you never have heard him speak. Or you have, and just hate what he has to say. That happens many times when the truth is told.

A historian, is he? Hmmm... I've heard him, and what he's got is an opinion, a semi-informed one. Does Barton even have a degree in history? I don't think he does... He's got an Oral Roberts degree, which means he might be an 'expert' is whatever Oral thinks is important, maybe.

I don't have a degree in Oral, but I do have a degree in history. Barton is about ideology & polemics,  not about history. it is no wonder that he finds favor with the 'God is on our side!' gang, as polemics is their game.

[SHOOTALL]

Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes.

How was he disingenuous ? A word that means to lack candor ,his speech seemed all but that ..............

[ironglow]

To tell the truth, David Barton is a Christian, and he is a very intelligent historian. Obviously you never have heard him speak. Or you have, and just hate what he has to say. That happens many times when the truth is told.

A historian, is he? Hmmm... I've heard him, and what he's got is an opinion, a semi-informed one. Does Barton even have a degree in history? I don't think he does... He's got an Oral Roberts degree, which means he might be an 'expert' is whatever Oral thinks is important, maybe.

I don't have a degree in Oral, but I do have a degree in history. Barton is about ideology & polemics,  not about history. it is no wonder that he finds favor with the 'God is on our side!' gang, as polemics is their game.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
   You just read the wrong biography..  You read a hostile bio on Wikipedia and repeated it almos verbatim.  So, to be fair & balanced, you should read a friendly biography:  http://www.wallbuilders.com/abtbiodb.asp
 
  Note: toward the bottom of the page, the awards and honors he has received from historically accurate minded organizations.

[rio grande]

Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes.

How was he disingenuous ? A word that means to lack candor ,his speech seemed all but that ..............

Maybe because he conceals his motivation, which appears to be greed, and  desire for bloodshed. Certainly not what you would expect of a Christian.
 He may not literally call for a war, but his propaganda fuels the fire.

I don't care for Obama any more than anyone else on this forum, but for a so-called Christian to condemn negotiation with Iran in an attempt to avoid war is problematic to say the least.

[ironglow]

Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes.

How was he disingenuous ? A word that means to lack candor ,his speech seemed all but that ..............

Maybe because he conceals his motivation, which appears to be greed, and  desire for bloodshed. Certainly not what you would expect of a Christian.
 He may not literally call for a war, but his propaganda fuels the fire.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  Rio;
  Please think your answers over a bit more closely before you type.  Greed? Desire for bloodshed ? Where do you get that ?
      I noticed in your reply #8 that "bloodshed" seems to be a favored term of yours, but try to place it where it fits in.
 
   Again; your message appears disjointed from the current discussion.

[rio grande]

Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes.

How was he disingenuous ? A word that means to lack candor ,his speech seemed all but that ..............

Maybe because he conceals his motivation, which appears to be greed, and  desire for bloodshed. Certainly not what you would expect of a Christian.
 He may not literally call for a war, but his propaganda fuels the fire.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  Rio;
  Please think your answers over a bit more closely before you type.  Greed? Desire for bloodshed ? Where do you get that ?
      I noticed in your reply #8 that "bloodshed" seems to be a favored term of yours, but try to place it where it fits in.
 
   Again; your message appears disjointed from the current discussion.

Well, ironglow, I'm against war.  'Bloodshed' is what happens in war.
 Blood of good and innocent men, women and children, as well as the 'bad guys'.

Someone once said "Blessed are the peacemakers".  Do you remember who that was?
Anyone who sets himself up as a Christian then whose words promote war is a bit disjointed himself. 

The 'greed' comes from Mr. Harper's comments on taxes, and I admit that it always bothers me that so often an opposition to sharing with others comes from those who have been blessed with an abundance.
However Mr. Harper doesn't seem to mind giving the wasteful military/industrial complex  as  much money as they ask for, to enrich contractors and carry on with unnecessary and immoral foreign wars.
ironglow, you are certainly right that Obama has been responsible for many of these wars. 

[ironglow]

Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes.

How was he disingenuous ? A word that means to lack candor ,his speech seemed all but that ..............

Maybe because he conceals his motivation, which appears to be greed, and  desire for bloodshed. Certainly not what you would expect of a Christian.
 He may not literally call for a war, but his propaganda fuels the fire.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  Rio;
  Please think your answers over a bit more closely before you type.  Greed? Desire for bloodshed ? Where do you get that ?
      I noticed in your reply #8 that "bloodshed" seems to be a favored term of yours, but try to place it where it fits in.
 
   Again; your message appears disjointed from the current discussion.

Well, ironglow, I'm against war.  'Bloodshed' is what happens in war. It also happens in plane rides, car rides, illicit drug use, OWS "camps", college drunk  parties and after proms; are you against those things also? Nnobody goe to war for fun.  Some like to say "war is not the answer".. nice words; but when you have an enemy which crashes planes into your largest cities and buildings and swear by their "god" that they do npot plan on stopping..what is your answer ?
 
 Blood of good and innocent men, women and children, as well as the 'bad guys'.  The "good guys"... soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines... also shed their own blood, in case you haven't noticed

 Someone once said "Blessed are the peacemakers".  Do you remember who that was ?  Sure I remember who that was, but your expertise with the Bible leaves something to be desired..Jesus is no wimp !  He almos invariably preached peace, but He also recognized that there is a time to defend oneself..see below:
   ³⁶ Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.  (Luke22:36 KJV)      Sorry to break your delusional bubble, Rio.. 
Anyone who sets himself up as a Christian then whose words promote war is a bit disjointed himself. Read again what Jesus said in (Luke 22:36)....Is Jesus disjointed in your mind ?

The 'greed' comes from Mr. Harper's comments on taxes, and I admit that it always bothers me that so often an opposition to sharing with others comes from those who have been blessed with an abundance.  God asks for 10%...Obama demands as much as 30% to 35% from somne..Is Obama owed more than God ?     
However Mr. Harper doesn't seem to mind giving the wasteful military/industrial complex  as  much money as they ask for, to enrich contractors and carry on with unnecessary and immoral foreign wars.  Are you sure Jesus would want us to allow the Islamofacists to take over this country...without us raising a hand ....or a rifle ? 

[rio grande]

  War is purposeful killing.  No one I know goes on plane rides, car rides, or to OWS camps, college parties and proms in order to kill.
 What is the answer of the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Syria, to the invasion and occupation of their countries by foreign troops?
ironglow, you think exactly like Bin Laden.  An unending cycle of attack and revenge. 
And that accomplishes what?

"It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied."
Luke 22:37,38

[yellowtail3]

   You just read the wrong biography..  You read a hostile bio on Wikipedia and repeated it almos verbatim.  So, to be fair & balanced, you should read a friendly biography:  http://www.wallbuilders.com/abtbiodb.asp Note: toward the bottom of the page, the awards and honors he has received from historically accurate minded organizations.

I have not quoted anyone, iron glow. My understanding is that your 'historian' hero hasn't even earned an undergrad degree in history. Perhaps I'm mistaken?
I am not mistaken that he's a repub right wingnut Christainist dominionist type, that i am confident of. No wonder he appeals to certain ideologues. I've posted in response to OP this topic, which has some dubious BS in it. If you'd like I'll get specific, but I don't think that it will matter much.

[ironglow]

  War is purposeful killing.  No one I know goes on plane rides, car rides, or to OWS camps, college parties and proms in order to kill.
 What is the answer of the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Syria, to the invasion and occupation of their countries by foreign troops?
ironglow, you think exactly like Bin Laden.  An unending cycle of attack and revenge. 
And that accomplishes what?

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  You spoke of "bloodshed" which happens at all those events..  Whether by a hand grenade or a car under an 18 wheeler..the victims are just as DEAD..still "bloodshed"...  So, shall these events and many others be cancelled or at least curtailed ?
  Start talking rational, please...

[ironglow]

  War is purposeful killing.  No one I know goes on plane rides, car rides, or to OWS camps, college parties and proms in order to kill.
 What is the answer of the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Syria, to the invasion and occupation of their countries by foreign troops?
ironglow, you think exactly like Bin Laden.  An unending cycle of attack and revenge. 
And that accomplishes what?

"It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied."
Luke 22:37,38

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  So what were the swords to be used for..cutting cakes ?  Or were they perchance for DEFENSE.. the very reason our country is sometimes forced into war...for our own DEFENSE...
 
   

[rio grande]

  War is purposeful killing.  No one I know goes on plane rides, car rides, or to OWS camps, college parties and proms in order to kill.
 What is the answer of the people of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Syria, to the invasion and occupation of their countries by foreign troops?
ironglow, you think exactly like Bin Laden.  An unending cycle of attack and revenge. 
And that accomplishes what?

"It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied."
Luke 22:37,38

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  So what were the swords to be used for..cutting cakes ?  Or were they perchance for DEFENSE.. the very reason our country is sometimes forced into war...for our own DEFENSE...
 
 

And when Simon Peter used the sword in defense to cut off the ear of one sent to arrest Jesus, what did Jesus then do?
 As far as the purpose of the swords, the Gospel is clear. Read thoughtfully Luke 22:37.
 
 A just defense and a just war is sometimes necessary.  But to cross the globe and attack countries that pose no real threat does not make a Just War.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory
 
 ""Suddenly some airplanes came and dropped bombs on the children and killed my son, my two nephews and some other children from our village," said Mr. Zahid. "When we went there we saw the children in pieces, some missing legs, some missing arms, only the heads and face could be recognized, nothing else."
 
 http://ncronline.org/news/peace/afghanistans-massacred-innocents-have-names

[SHOOTALL]

Barton may or may not be a Christian, but he sure sounds like a disingenuous idiot wearing religious robes.

How was he disingenuous ? A word that means to lack candor ,his speech seemed all but that ..............

Maybe because he conceals his motivation, which appears to be greed, and  desire for bloodshed. Certainly not what you would expect of a Christian.
 He may not literally call for a war, but his propaganda fuels the fire.

I don't care for Obama any more than anyone else on this forum, but for a so-called Christian to condemn negotiation with Iran in an attempt to avoid war is problematic to say the least.

Well if you don't assoicate bloodshed and greed  with people who claim to be christian check out the last 2000 years of world history. The Bible is full of war so why is it not christian to refuse to talk with a dictator ? one who has stated his desire to destory us ? one who may be laying a trap ? Can we assume the concept of not negotiating with terroist is wrong also ? Some feel they are/support terroist.

[DDZ]

To tell the truth, David Barton is a Christian, and he is a very intelligent historian. Obviously you never have heard him speak. Or you have, and just hate what he has to say. That happens many times when the truth is told.

A historian, is he? Hmmm... I've heard him, and what he's got is an opinion, a semi-informed one. Does Barton even have a degree in history? I don't think he does... He's got an Oral Roberts degree, which means he might be an 'expert' is whatever Oral thinks is important, maybe.

I don't have a degree in Oral, but I do have a degree in history. Barton is about ideology & polemics,  not about history. it is no wonder that he finds favor with the 'God is on our side!' gang, as polemics is their game.

Wonder when it came about that a degree determined how intelligent one is on a subject. I know people that have a degree, and sometimes wonder how they ever are able to drive themselves to work. Barton has done more research on the founding of America, and on the founders themselves, than the majority of people with history degrees. Since you have a degree in history, maybe you can enlighten us on what part of history that Barton is wrong about. 

[jimster]

Wonder when it came about that a degree determined how intelligent one is on a subject.

It doesn't really, having a degree means you studied what they wanted you to study, did what they wanted you to do, you'll still have an opinion on lots of things.  You were already intelligent enough to buckle down hard and play their game so you can pass, but your opinion will just be your opinion.  You can have a degree in constitutional law and not agree with the authors of the constitution or their meanings...and even the professor who hands you a degree might not agree with the authors, you still get the degree. You can pass basic medical and then go for radiology technician, and not use 80 percent of what they made you learn/memorize...bottom line is just show someone how to work the machine make the patient hold their broken arm where you want. (ya it hurts, but I have to take a pic)....
I do look up to anyone who gets a degree because it's hard work and cost way too much, but in the end,  it's a lot of money for much of nothing because you can read all the same stuff they read for free and know just as much. That's just my opinion...not all would agree.

[Cuts Crooked]

I do look up to anyone who gets a degree because it's hard work and cost way too much, but in the end,  it's a lot of money for much of nothing because you can read all the same stuff they read for free and know just as much. That's just my opinion...not all would agree.

And there's the fact that a degree doesn't endow anyone with common sense.

BTW, frequently PHD just means Piled Higher & Deeper.

[Swampman]

It isn't possible to be a Christian and a democrat.

[ironglow]

Rio grande says;
 
  "  A just defense and a just war is sometimes necessary.  But to cross the globe and attack countries that pose no real threat does not make a Just War"
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  His answer...Nah..we should pat their backs and call them "bro"..maybe bow and kiss their hand too...their left hand..