Blackhawk or Vaquero?

[azmark]

What are the pros and cons of the two designs?  I would like to use a handgun to hunt wild pigs.  It's kind of a toss up for me whether I like the BH Flattop or the Vaquero better.  How are the fixed sights on the Vaquero?  It's a better looking gun, but looks don't count if it's too hard to shoot.

[drdougrx]

It really depends on what YOU think.  Here's my perspective.  The BH, depending on caliber can handle hotter loads, esp. 45colt and 44 mag.  It also has adj sights where the Vaq doesn't.  The Vaq has a quite a few frame sizes but if you are going to shoot only 45colt and are careful about hot loading for it, it could work fine.  I think the Vaq also carries better due to the smaller frame size and the lack of sights.

I'd still recommend the BH though....I like the adj sights.

[SHOOTALL]

It really depends on what YOU think.  Here's my perspective.  The BH, depending on caliber can handle hotter loads, esp. 45colt and 44 mag.  It also has adj sights where the Vaq doesn't.  The Vaq has a quite a few frame sizes but if you are going to shoot only 45colt and are careful about hot loading for it, it could work fine.  I think the Vaq also carries better due to the smaller frame size and the lack of sights.

I'd still recommend the BH though....I like the adj sights.

+1 , the weight of the BH makes it a better shooter for me when ya need to draw down a fine aim also.

[azmark]

I'd like to hear from someone who shoots a Vaquero or other SAA 'clone' on a regular basis...are the fixed sights really much of a handicap?  I can't imagine taking a shot further that 35-40 yards.  The handgun will probably start out being a carry gun with my .270 as the primary weapon.

Maybe I could drive up to Tucson and see if there's a range where I could try out both.  I don't know anyone down here who has either.

[james]

I've been happy with my old model (lg frame) Vaquero and fixed sights.     It shoots to point of aim at 25 yds with my cast reloads and a little high with a souped up jacketed hp.  Its what I carry in griz country and its pretty accurate at up to 50 yards.

[Graybeard]

He said BH Flat top which is the smaller frame size not the full size BH same as new Vaqueros are. Same strength level as new Vaqueros.

I prefer adjustable rear sights on my guns and personally wouldn't consider a gun for hunting without adjustable rear. I have BH flat tops in both .44 Special and .45 Colt/.45ACP.

[azmark]

Not much chance of running into a grizzly.  We have black bears here in So. AZ.  I may be transferred to FL and I think they just have black bears, too.  Load-wise, the research I've done so far indicates that in .44 Spl or .45 Colt either revolver should handle a 240-260 gr hard cast bullet pushed up to 1000 fps.  That should be okay for a hog, from what I understand, which I'd like to hunt if I do go to FL. 

Are my facts accurate?

[SHOOTALL]

I'd like to hear from someone who shoots a Vaquero or other SAA 'clone' on a regular basis...are the fixed sights really much of a handicap?  I can't imagine taking a shot further that 35-40 yards.  The handgun will probably start out being a carry gun with my .270 as the primary weapon.

Maybe I could drive up to Tucson and see if there's a range where I could try out both.  I don't know anyone down here who has either.

I have a Breatta Stampede with fixed sights , Over 55 and yes the fixed sights are poor for my old eyes.

[azmark]

I'd like to hear from someone who shoots a Vaquero or other SAA 'clone' on a regular basis...are the fixed sights really much of a handicap?  I can't imagine taking a shot further that 35-40 yards.  The handgun will probably start out being a carry gun with my .270 as the primary weapon.

Maybe I could drive up to Tucson and see if there's a range where I could try out both.  I don't know anyone down here who has either.

I have a Breatta Stampede with fixed sights , Over 55 and yes the fixed sights are poor for my old eyes.

Thanks for that input.  I'm going to have to check out the sights for myself.  I'm 51 and I'm not happy with the sights on my GI 1911.  Hopefully, the SAA isn't as bad as that.

[Graybeard]

Yes I have both the .44 Special and .45 Colt in the BH Flat top and you can easily push bullets of 240-260 to 1000 fps well within their pressure limits. Brian Pearce has post several articles on the two in Handloader magazine wit load data safe even for Colt SAAs that can reach that velocity level.

It is my general target velocity plus or minus 50 fps.

[Ranch13]

For all intents and purposes either model will handle, and do so safely, a load quite capable of turning anything on four legs into rotting flesh at 100 yds or less.
The Blackhawk will be the better of the hunting guns as the sights are better in the not so always good light conditions we find when hunting. The fine blade and little notch on the vaquero can get lost in low   and sometimes bright light.

[223fan]

I have always liked and shot the vaquero better than the blackhawk.The trouble is I like play with different loads and bullet weights which is a lot easier with a blackhawk.It comes down to what you like better,you really cann't go wrong with either gun.

[bilmac]

If you want to shoot loads other than the standard factory stuff you should be able to regulate the sights for them. That means Blackhawk.

[azmark]

I went and handled a BH, SBH, and a Vaquero today.  The small frame of the Vaquero fit my hand very well.  The Vaquero sights were much better than I expected.  The SBH is a beast!!  Even though the grips are a bit large, the hammer spur is the best of the three by far, in my opinion.


I think I like the SBH simply because it feels like such a bad mutha .  The grip size bothers me a bit but that might be because I'm not used to it.  I think I'll see what aftermarket grips are available.


They didn't have a flattop, so I still want to check one out. I wish I didn't have to consider costs...reality stinks.

[Ranch13]

The grip size of the flattop is the same as the vaquero.

[Graybeard]

The grip size of the flattop is the same as the vaquero.

Yup. Same size frame and grip frame is same. Only real difference is the sights.

[mcwoodduck]

I'd like to hear from someone who shoots a Vaquero or other SAA 'clone' on a regular basis...are the fixed sights really much of a handicap?  I can't imagine taking a shot further that 35-40 yards.  The handgun will probably start out being a carry gun with my .270 as the primary weapon.

Maybe I could drive up to Tucson and see if there's a range where I could try out both.  I don't know anyone down here who has either.

I have a few revolvers that are fixed sight and some that are adjustable sighted.
Both types are accurate.
The main difference is the size of the sights.  For pilinking and personal protection the small fixed sightsa are fine, distance is usually short. 
When you are talking hunting I think the larger sights help for longer distance on an animal.

[Ranch13]

The grip size of the flattop is the same as the vaquero.

Yup. Same size frame and grip frame is same. Only real difference is the sights.

Yup and those of us with enough gray in what hair we have left also remember those as the original blackhawk's, and were tickled to death to see Ruger bring that frame and grip frame back.

[Lloyd Smale]

i love vaqueros. Both my 500 linebaughs and both my custom 45 colts are built on the old vaqueros. Once regulated to a load i find the sights as easy to use as the blackhawks. Id give the blackhawks fitted with bowen rear and clements front blades a slight advantage but its slight. The biggest drawback to a vaquero is finding a load and regulating the gun for it. For the most part your stuck with one load when your done but if you a tinkerer you can usually find a hot and a mild load that shoot to the same poa by varying bullet weights and velocity. For the average guy that isnt willing to put the time in to do all of this your no doubt better off with adjustable sights.

[azmark]

Lloyd, in you experience is there a factory load(s) for which the Vaquero sights are generally regulated?  I guess I assumed that a load duplicating the original .45 Colt ballistics would be pretty close and I would be able to make minor adjustments from there.  I don't really need much more in the way of power than that.

[Ranch13]

AZ, my vaguero 45 colt hits to poa with factory equivilant ammo (not the squib load cas stuff). It also shoots close enough to poa with loads pushing 260 gr bullets a bit over 900 fps ( see the Alliant online data with bludot). The thing you have to watch with the 45 colt vaquero is the cylinder length, some of the heavier Keith type bullets will stick their noses out the front of the cylinder if you don't watch the oal real close.
 My 44 mag vaquero wouldn't regulate to any load storebought or homemade , so I filed the front sight to suit.

[azmark]

Question:  What was the original Army load for the .45 Colt?  I know it was a black powder load, but what was the original bullet size and what was its velocity?

[SHOOTALL]

Up to 40 gr of fine black powder with a 255 gr bullet. But then S&W made its gun with a shorter 45 cal round and the Army got some and then the S&W round was used in both guns.

[Ranch13]

Originaly it was 40 grs of powder and a 250 gr bullet. The troops didn't like the recoil of the Colt load , but did tolerate the S&W load of a 230 gr bullet with 30 grs of black, so the military version of the Colt was brought down to 35 grs of powder with the 250 and 230 gr bullet.
 37 grs of goex 3f with a .030 fiber wad under the Remington bulk bullet will zip out of the 5.5 inch vaquero right at 900 fps. You know you done touched off a real handgun load when you shoot a cylinder full of those.

[Lloyd Smale]

you could buy 5 identical ruger vaqueros and everyone of them would shoot to a differnt point of aim. I believe they try to get at least elevation close to poa with factory ammo but thats not even allways the case. Ive yet to find one that didnt need some kind of regulating

Lloyd, in you experience is there a factory load(s) for which the Vaquero sights are generally regulated?  I guess I assumed that a load duplicating the original .45 Colt ballistics would be pretty close and I would be able to make minor adjustments from there.  I don't really need much more in the way of power than that.

[Ken ONeill]

I agree with Lloyd completely. Based on the comments you've made and the questions you've asked, I would say that you'll be much better off with either the adjustable sighted flattop or the larger Blackhawk / Super Blackhawk (also with adjustable sights), depending upon which frame and grip size you prefer.
Fixed sights are asking for trouble. You might get them regulated easily enough ... or you might not. An experienced enthusiast can usually work that out. A novice, not so much.

[Lloyd Smale]

well said ken. Id never recomend a fix sighted gun to someone that doesnt have some experience or someone that hasnt reloaded alot. Maybe after youve had 3 or 4 ajustable sighted sixguns. there hands down my favorite handguns but they tax even me at times.

I agree with Lloyd completely. Based on the comments you've made and the questions you've asked, I would say that you'll be much better off with either the adjustable sighted flattop or the larger Blackhawk / Super Blackhawk (also with adjustable sights), depending upon which frame and grip size you prefer.
Fixed sights are asking for trouble. You might get them regulated easily enough ... or you might not. An experienced enthusiast can usually work that out. A novice, not so much.

[Lonegun1894]

I have OLD .45 Vaqueros, .45 Blackhawks, and 32y/o eyes, and like them all equally.  One shoots just as well as the other, but the Vaqueros do have to have a load worked up for them specifically to hit to POA, where the Blackhawks you can just find a load that shoots well and adjust the sights, which can be much easier.  I can't really say I prefer one type over the other, and the fixed sights work very well for me once I found the load my Vaqueros like.  I would say that if you will be loading, go with whichever you prefer.  However if you will be buying ammo, go with the Blackhawk.

[mcwoodduck]

My siggestion is if you get a adjustable sighted gun, do not mess with the adjustmanets untill you have over 200 rounds through the gun.
If you get the fixed sighted gun put two hundred rounds through it before trying to play with different loads and find the round that the gun is regulated for.

[Lloyd Smale]

the big problem ive seen with inexperienced handgunners and fixed sighte guns is trigger control. they wonder why there hitting 4 inches low and to the left and  blame the gun right away. Alot of can be fixed just by teaching them proper trigger technique and helping them over flinching. Even with that said i have had rugers that were off. Ive had them that were put together so badly that the barrel wasnt even tightened to the point that the sight was straight up and down. I even bought one one time that came with the top strap grove cut at so much of an angle that it strarted on the right rear of the top strap and ended up on the left front. couldnt figure how the hell something like that even left the factrory. I send it back and ruger must have been a bit embarrased as they told me to chose any handgun the make for an exchange. Ended up getting a 454 alaskan which was worth a heck of alot more and at that time about impossible to find.