obummer backs gay marriage.

[KIMBER45]

NW says:
 "Ever notice that Abortion, same sex marriage and religion are always placed on the front burner come election time?"
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
  Sure..also "war on women", "war on minorities" and trying to control fence jumpers.........   It works well to take the spotlight off the economy, jobs, Obamacare and ever rising taxes..
 
    Below, one phrase for the continuing Obama supporters:

IG you keep blaming obama in a partisan fashion.
Well I'm an equal opportunity Basher..  Our congressional leaders are all inept irregardless of political affiliation.
The RINO's cried , we learned our lesson . please vote is back in..we will make Jobs our number 1 priority.
So we did , and what has become of it.

It took over 430 days in a republican controlled house till the RINO house republicans passed 1 THAT'S RIGHT 1 insignificant watered down jobs bill that only addressed making it easier for small businesses to access investment capital. 430 days to pass a watered down bill that really has no significant impact getting us back on tract with growing Jobs.

The majority of state and fed legislation that has been pushed through for over 490 days has done nothing to target Job growth.

Only issues being addressed are social issues. Abortion, contraception , some immigration at state levels, and now gay marriage.

Now in all fairness tye republicans claim at least 15 Jobs bills have been passed, but when you climb under the covers none of the 15 can claim the tag Job creation.

They are all guilty , they are all inept and all deserve to be removed from their positions dems , reps, independents alike.
They have forgotten they work for us not the other way round.

They go there to get wealthier not to serve us.  And it's our fault for reelecting them.

[Matt]

They go there to get wealthier not to serve us.  And it's our fault for reelecting them.

Now that is something we can agree on.

[ironglow]

NW says:
 "Ever notice that Abortion, same sex marriage and religion are always placed on the front burner come election time?"
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
  Sure..also "war on women", "war on minorities" and trying to control fence jumpers.........   It works well to take the spotlight off the economy, jobs, Obamacare and ever rising taxes..
 
    Below, one phrase for the continuing Obama supporters:

IG you keep blaming obama in a partisan fashion.
Well I'm an equal opportunity Basher..  Our congressional leaders are all inept irregardless of political affiliation.
The RINO's cried , we learned our lesson . please vote is back in..we will make Jobs our number 1 priority.
So we did , and what has become of it.

It took over 430 days in a republican controlled house till the RINO house republicans passed 1 THAT'S RIGHT 1 insignificant watered down jobs bill that only addressed making it easier for small businesses to access investment capital. 430 days to pass a watered down bill that really has no significant impact getting us back on tract with growing Jobs.

The majority of state and fed legislation that has been pushed through for over 490 days has done nothing to target Job growth.

Only issues being addressed are social issues. Abortion, contraception , some immigration at state levels, and now gay marriage.

Now in all fairness tye republicans claim at least 15 Jobs bills have been passed, but when you climb under the covers none of the 15 can claim the tag Job creation.

They are all guilty , they are all inept and all deserve to be removed from their positions dems , reps, independents alike.
They have forgotten they work for us not the other way round.

They go there to get wealthier not to serve us.  And it's our fault for reelecting them.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
   I am no more pleased with the Rinos than anyone else..however, I am realist enough to realize we have had Obama for 3.5 years and things have gotten so bad in just that time, that there is no comparison with any other administration of the last 65 years.  If  we can slow the descent a bit by putting some others in there, which may counteract the crash dive we are on..then perhaps within 4 more years we can get our act together and get somebody elected who can straighten things out  a bit.
   Our best chance for we, us, ourselves.. to make progress at this juncture, is with the Tea Party, but we can't even get together in uniting behind their banner!
  Conservatives have 2 primary branches; fiscal conservatives and cultural (primarily Christian) conservatives and both are already constitutional conservatives....  It seems that in this election cycle we could not agree or compromise enough to  produce a solid front!  The Tea Party included all these elements...and still, some of us here, disparaged the Tea Party!! 
  Sarah Palin for example, carries the full fiscal, cultural and constitutional credentials...yet some on this very board continually take 'cheap shots' at her.  It certainly appears that in our single-issue blindness, we have made our own bed to sleep in!
 
  Perhaps, each of us being individualists, are just a bit to demanding; to precise at what we each want in a candidate !!.
     
    If we can elect a body to slow the descent into the maelstrom of Obama's making this year..we may be able to come together 4 years hence, and agree upon a candidate & platform which will get something done.  Until we can agree on that less-than-perfect (only human) candidate/platform....then we  will just have to stand around cursing the darkness.

[BUGEYE]

If the general public mirrored the membership here, we would be in good shape. but it doesn't...
It could though, if people would get behind the Tea Party and work, instead of throwing rocks at the people that don't support their choice.

[kynardsj]

I agree with you Bugeye. The Republican candidate we have wasn't my first choice, or even my second for that matter but I will vote for him in hopes that he can beat that abomination that's in the whitehouse now. Are there better people to lead this country ? Absolutely, but we have to get enough people behind them and that just hasn't happened yet. What worries me is all the ones still drinking the Obama koolaid and believeing the lies that come out of his mouth. Just a bunch of ignorant sheep. 

[scootrd]

If the general public mirrored the membership here, we would be in good shape. but it doesn't...
It could though, if people would get behind the Tea Party and work, instead of throwing rocks at the people that don't support their choice.

The TEA PARTY started off as a great thing, then quicky got hijacked by the RINO corporate karl Rove community.
Now they have become just another part of part of the swill of DC. 

[powderman]

They go there to get wealthier not to serve us.  And it's our fault for reelecting them.

Now that is something we can agree on.

 
I agree too. The only politician I can remember that actually ran to help OTHERS was  Ron Lewis from KY, he is retired now. Him I liked. POWDERMAN. 

[magooch]

If the institution of marriage cannot be held to its definition of a union between one woman and one man, then how is it expected to be limited to just two adults of any gender?  Why do homos have to try to pervert everything and everybody?  They want to partner up--call it queerage and leave marriage out of it.

[ironglow]

If the general public mirrored the membership here, we would be in good shape. but it doesn't...
It could though, if people would get behind the Tea Party and work, instead of throwing rocks at the people that don't support their choice.

The TEA PARTY started off as a great thing, then quicky got hijacked by the RINO corporate karl Rove community.
Now they have become just another part of part of the swill of DC.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
    Obviously you don't know the Tea Party.  You sound much like the folks who condemn Rush Limbaugh, but never listen to his show.

[scootrd]

If the general public mirrored the membership here, we would be in good shape. but it doesn't...
It could though, if people would get behind the Tea Party and work, instead of throwing rocks at the people that don't support their choice.

The TEA PARTY started off as a great thing, then quicky got hijacked by the RINO corporate karl Rove community.
Now they have become just another part of part of the swill of DC.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
    Obviously you don't know the Tea Party.  You sound much like the folks who condemn Rush Limbaugh, but never listen to his show.

Really? , well I was an original tea party advocate until on a national level corporate America started writing their checks through Superpacs, and RINO's claimed the movement as their own. Follow the money , then come back and debate from a position of knowing.

[yellowtail3]

Obviously you don't know the Tea Party.  You sound much like the folks who condemn Rush Limbaugh, but never listen to his show.

Really? , well I was an original tea party advocate until on a national level corporate America started writing their checks through Superpacs, and RINO's claimed the movement as their own. Follow the money , then come back and debate from a position of knowing.

You're asking a lot there, scootrd.

How should Christians treat homosexuals?

[/url]

[garbhead]

Ever notice that Abortion, same sex marriage and religion are always placed on the front burner come election time?    Then after one of the CIN'S Criminal In Charge takes over they just sort of go into cold storage for a while . HE HE! The American voter..........Those Washington insiders have our number and they know it

  Can't we all see what is happening?  It's called divide and conquer....The lines of "division" are clearly here....who is it that's going to "conquer"?  Republicans think they will conquer the Democrats. Democrats think they will conquer the Republicans... HaHa the jokes on all of America... Some faction is going to come in and conquer ALL of us, while we are busy bickering back and forth at each other.........
Everyone happy now?

[DDZ]

It is your choice to listen to Keller if you wish, but I want to warn you that he is a deceiver of the Gospel. Keller says that "Homosexuality is not God's original design for sexuality". What does he mean by this? That Gods design for sexuality has changed with the times.   
In the second link Driscoll replies a bit more clearly to homosexuality. 

We are to love our neighbor, and its not the homosexual that is hated by Christians, its the sin of homosexuality that is hated. God loves homosexuals but He certainly hates the sin.
The church should welcome homosexuals through their doors, but the church should also be encouraging homosexuals to rid themselves of the sin and repent. Not just pat them on the back and say its ok, Jesus loves you. God is love, but there is much more to Gods word than just love. Its just like a loving father that loves his son or daughter. Along with the love is discipline and rules. 

http://www.newcalvinist.com/tim-kellers-false-gospel/

http://www.weswhite.net/2011/06/the-gay-perspective-on-tim-keller/

[ironglow]

  As DDZ says..we should hate the sin..but love the sinner.  We are not to try to accomodate sin nor make excuses for it..even our own sin.  If we find sin in our lives ir is necessary to "repent" ..thst is turn 180 degrees from it.
   The sin of homosexuality is rather loathsome to God.. at least enough so he labels it an "abomination".  Now, other wise nice people can and do, fall into sin.  A Christian should try to extricate him/her self from any captivating sin.  As far as the homosexual goes, it is his/her duty to shed that particular sin.
  Instead, in some cases the one caught up in it tries to call it "normal", an "alternative" lifestyle...and even speak of "gay pride".
  Most of us are embarrassed by our sin and try to chase it from our life.  How would it look to us if we try to bring someone  who is a thief, murderer, rapist or child molester closer to God... and they refuse to accept that they may be doing wrong?
    They speak of being a "normal" theif, or their "alternative life" as a child molester..or rapist pride.  How can you help someone like that ?
  I don't believe in mistreating people and I would gladly reach out to help someone caught up in the web of perversion, offering them a "hand up"..but I would never go down into the slime with them.
   If they refuse all help..OK... be kind to them ..but "turn them over to a debased mind" and let them end up where they will.. just as God says we should in (Romans !:28 NKJV). 
       IMO Tim Keller (whoever he is) sounds like an apologist for those who like to "choose" what scriptures to obey and what ones to ignore.  Not quite in league with Rev Jeremiah Wright...but he appears to be getting there..

[BUGEYE]

Really? , well I was an original tea party advocate until on a national level corporate America started writing their checks through Superpacs, and RINO's claimed the movement as their own. Follow the money , then come back and debate from a position of knowing.

yeah, it's okay that hussein is raking in millions in record amounts.
but those dastardly conservatives need to keep their money to themselves.

[yellowtail3]

As someone defending the gay stance why isn't it our business when it affects us? I'm against rapists and pediphiles also. Where do you stand on that??? You seem to be for letting everyone have their sexual preference.

I'll field this one - yeah, leave consenting adults alone, it's none of your bidness. The bit about rapist and pedophilia has nothing to do with the subject at hand, as those acts don't involve consenting adults.

Why would you equate Rapist and pedophilia with sexual orientation?

because he wants you to defend those things, and muddy the waters as to what the issue at hand is. 


Kimber's photo (below) is just rich. All those Good Christians pictured with their American flags are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that God Is On Their Side. They'd have dismissed anyone who argued as being a librul, communist, atheist, maybe homosexual, and - back in that day? - Nigger Lover was insult de jour. Things haven't changed all that much with that crowd. 

[scootrd]

Really? , well I was an original tea party advocate until on a national level corporate America started writing their checks through Superpacs, and RINO's claimed the movement as their own. Follow the money , then come back and debate from a position of knowing.

yeah, it's okay that hussein is raking in millions in record amounts.
but those dastardly conservatives need to keep their money to themselves.

In addressing the Issue that the Tea Party has been hijacked by RINO insider groups and special interest funding, and corporate lobbyists,  -  Your comment added nothing in the least to the conversation, and at best tries to deflect the conversation away the FACTS.

What started out as a healthy grass roots effort has all grown up,  become mainstream,  hijacked , and now is nothing more than an infected front platform org on national level controlled by corporate lobbyists and like. Thank you Americanfreedom , Thank you Karl Rove , Thank you Koch Brothers etc..etc..

Follow the Money

[BUGEYE]

Really? , well I was an original tea party advocate until on a national level corporate America started writing their checks through Superpacs, and RINO's claimed the movement as their own. Follow the money , then come back and debate from a position of knowing.

yeah, it's okay that hussein is raking in millions in record amounts.
but those dastardly conservatives need to keep their money to themselves.

In addressing the Issue that the Tea Party has been hijacked by RINO insider groups and special interest funding, and corporate lobbyists,  -  Your comment added nothing in the least to the conversation, and at best tries to deflect the conversation away the FACTS.

What started out as a healthy grass roots effort has all grown up,  become mainstream,  hijacked , and now is nothing more than an infected front platform org on national level controlled by corporate lobbyists and like. Thank you Americanfreedom , Thank you Karl Rove , Thank you Koch Brothers etc..etc..

Follow the Money

uh scooter,  you take every thread off-topic to push your liberal agenda.

[Dixie Dude]

Well, blacks are more emotional than other races.  Look to their music, lack of anger management.  Have any of you guys been to a black church.  I have.  Their music and sermons are highly emotional.  They are also more socialist oriented.  Why?  First, their tribal insticts of sharing what was hunted or gathered with all in the tribe.  Second, being former slaves, this was continued by sharing the lack of resources they had.  Continued again with sharecropping after the Civil war.  Continiued again during the Great Depression.  This makes them more socialist leaning.  No fault of their own, just built in, so they normally associate with any monority group.  Even Asians and other foreigners can come here and make a living without going on the dole.  They don't have the built in socialist tendendacies. 
 
Being gay is not a civil rights issue.  This is sexual orientation plain and simple.  They can do whatever they want to do, but I don't want them diluting and twisting social norms that have been in place since society began.  Man+woman=marriage for rearing children.  All cultures, all societies have this.  Gay is not normal.  It is twisted.  If they were born that way, they have a genetic default, which is not normal.  Otherwise it is a lifestyle choice, that is diviant from the norm and unacceptable.  So is polygomay, so is bigomy.  They are both illegal.  polygomist are looking at this gay issue.  I read that in some state, since they legalised gay marriage, now polygomists are not fliling a lawsuit to allow for multiple wives and/or husbands.  This is all twisted thinking.  Not good for raising kids. 
 
I don't have a problem with a "civil union" for legal purposes, but marriage, no way.  Like I said before, it could be two sisters or brothers, that want to leave benefits to their sibling.  Or even a close non-gay friend. 

[powderman]

DIXIE DUDE. Good post Sir. Personally I don't agree with civil unions for perverts either, it gives them the same perks as normal humans and makes deviate behaviour seem acceptable, which it is not. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

Really? , well I was an original tea party advocate until on a national level corporate America started writing their checks through Superpacs, and RINO's claimed the movement as their own. Follow the money , then come back and debate from a position of knowing.

yeah, it's okay that hussein is raking in millions in record amounts.
but those dastardly conservatives need to keep their money to themselves.

In addressing the Issue that the Tea Party has been hijacked by RINO insider groups and special interest funding, and corporate lobbyists,  -  Your comment added nothing in the least to the conversation, and at best tries to deflect the conversation away the FACTS.

What started out as a healthy grass roots effort has all grown up,  become mainstream,  hijacked , and now is nothing more than an infected front platform org on national level controlled by corporate lobbyists and like. Thank you Americanfreedom , Thank you Karl Rove , Thank you Koch Brothers etc..etc..

Follow the Money

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  Get proof and start a link for your accusation of the Tea Party..then start a new thread, this thread is discussion Obama's acceptance of the perverse lifestyle.
Now, back to the thread...Obammy has just gained money but lost votes:
      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obama-does-damage-control-among-christian-pastors-following-gay-marriage-endorsement/

[Dixie Dude]

Another thing.  How far will this gay marriage thing go?  If it is legalised nationwide, and chruches refuse to preform a ceremony, then what next, lawsuits against chruches?  What happens to seperation of chruch and state?  Just like the "issue" of contraception and the Catholic chruch.  Other chruches are against contraception too, like Holiness churches, Amish, etc.  That is another reason why Obamacare should be scrapped.  I say let the insurance companies decide who they will cover, and who they will not.  Like some might not cover gay partners, others may.  Same with other things.  You can't make people do or do not do things.  It is unAmerican.  Americans never had "health care rights".  Never had "rights" to do diviated sex.  Never had a right to murder.  Murder is a religious issue also.  Christians are against murder.  Muslims can murder non-muslims, and or have honor killings.  It is in the 10 commandments.  So if they are going to legalise gay marriage, why not legalise murder?   

[ppine]

I give everyone on this thread credit for keeping their composure.  A couple of thoughts.  Allow civil unions between gays and don't call it marriage and keep the church out of it.  Then they can buy a house, get health insurance, make hospital visits, etc.  Romney's father George I believe was born in Mexico to a family of polygamists.  We don't hear much about that kind of stuff on this forum, but it was in the local paper today (Reno, NV).  Would you conservative types allow civil unions with no church sanctions?  People should not be penalized for who they fall in love with.

[powderman]

I give everyone on this thread credit for keeping their composure.  A couple of thoughts.  Allow civil unions between gays and don't call it marriage and keep the church out of it.  Then they can buy a house, get health insurance, make hospital visits, etc.  Romney's father George I believe was born in Mexico to a family of polygamists.  We don't hear much about that kind of stuff on this forum, but it was in the local paper today (Reno, NV).  Would you conservative types allow civil unions with no church sanctions?  People should not be penalized for who they fall in love with.

 
I don't agree with civil unions at all, they don't need that or marriage to buy a house, get health ins, go to hospitols, etc. Allowing civil unions would seem to legitimize perverted, deviate behavious. They choose to live as deviates they should pay the price. POWDERMAN. 

[rickt300]

Job creation is not something the government can do, government can only make it easier for small business to thrive. This means less taxes and regulation. Skipping that stone over the Dim controlled senate just isn't possible.

[lakota]

I could care less what the gays do but with several conditions:
 
1. They choose a word other than "marriage" to describe thier partnership
 
2. I quit hearing about thier gayness everytime I log on to internet or turn on TV or radio.
 
3. I quit seeing displays of thier gayness everytime I turn on TV or watch a movie. I dont care what they do I just dont want to see it
 
4. They dont get access to school children to preach about thier gayness.

[Dixie Dude]

I agree with you Powderman.  However, in the real world of politics, maybe a compromise of "civil union" is in order to shut them up.  The absolute only reason for a "marriage" is for health insurance and spousal benefits such as a pension, 401-k, social security, etc.  There are wills and other ways to get around marriage.  They can get around the pension by taking a lump sum payout and then willing it to their partner, same with 401-k's.  However some pensions don't allow that, nor does social security.  Don't have to change the definition of marriage to get around these benefit issues. 
 
If you change the definition of marriage to include two men or two women.  This makes man = woman.  Therefore women would have to be drafted.  There would be no "motherhood" or "fatherhood".  Poligomists would want reckognition.  It will open the door to a whole lot of weird stuff that would have to be figured out.  Would gay parents who adopt, say a girl, sign for her to get married at 14 to another say 21 year old gay woman?  Same if they had a 14 year old gay boy.  Would they sign for him to get married to a say 21 year old man?  Weird stuff.  Today that would be listed as a pedophile or "rape" of an underaged person even in a normal relationship unless the parents signed for them to get married.  I know a guy who went to prison because he was 18 and had a 15 year old girlfriend.  Father caught them in the act and filed charges.  Guy got 10 years but got out in about 5 for good behavior.  Ruined his life.  Now has to be listed as a sex offender.  His brother was president of my hunting club.  Sad situation.  He thought his girlfriend was 16, which is the legal age in Alabama for sex.  Anything below 16 is considered statutory rape unless parents sign for them to get married. 
 
Gay is all about sex.  Not love, not lifetime commitment, not for childrearing.  Although, they try to make it that way.  Like someone said, life expectancy of gays is about 53.  It is a hormonal or mental illness. 

[powderman]

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=Ap.WdmvJhxEoIHB7IVc0aH6bvZx4;_ylc=X3oDMWEwcnJqaHViBF9TAzIwMjM1MzgwNzUEYQMxMjA1MTQgbmV3cyBibG9nIG9iYW1hIHBhc3RvcnMgdARjY29kZQNwemJ1ZmNhaDUEY3BvcwMxMARlZAMxBGcDaWQtMjI4MjIxMQRpbnRsA3VzBGl0YwMwBGx0eHQDT2JhbWF0YWxrc3dpdGhwYXN0b3JzBG1jb2RlA3B6YnVhbGxjYWg1BG1wb3MDMQRwa2d0AzEEcGtndgMyMARwb3MDMARzZWMDdGQtZmVhBHNsawN0aHVtYmxpbmsEdGFyA2h0dHA6Ly9uZXdzLnlhaG9vLmNvbS9ibG9ncy90aWNrZXQvb2JhbWEtY2FsbHMtcGFzdG9ycy1leHBsYWluLWdheS1tYXJyaWFnZS1zdXBwb3J0LWJsYWNrLTE0NTc1NTEyNy5odG1sBHRlc3QDNzAx/SIG=13s6tmgau/EXP=1337116041/**http%3A//news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-calls-pastors-explain-gay-marriage-support-black-145755127.html
 
 
 Obama calls pastors to explain gay marriage support; black churches ‘conflicted’    By Dylan Stableford
Senior Media Reporter By Dylan Stableford | The Ticket – 6 hrs ago     
 

• President Obama participates in an interview with ABC's Robin Roberts, May 9, 2012. (Pete Souza/The White Hous …

  After making his historic remarks on same-sex unions last week, President Barack Obama led a conference call with black church pastors to explain his support for gay marriage, the New York Times reports. The call, which was held with "eight or so African-American ministers," occurred about two hours after the president's interview with ABC's Robin Roberts.
Obama explained to them that he struggled with the decision, pastors on the call told the paper, but several voiced their disapproval.
"They were wrestling with their ability to get over his theological position," the Rev. Delman Coates, a Maryland pastor who was on the call, told the Times.
The conference call was part of a quiet effort by the president to control potential political damage caused by his support of same-sex marriage.
According to the Times, Obama phoned "at least one [the Rev. Joel C. Hunter] of the five spiritual leaders he calls regularly for religious guidance, and his aides contacted other religious figures who have been supportive in the past."
Hunter, the pastor of a conservative megachurch, said he wasn't surprised Obama didn't ask him advice before the ABC interview because "I would have tried to talk him out of it."
At services on Sunday, black churches were conflicted about President Obama's support of gay marriage, according to USA Today:
 

Some churches were silent on the issue. At others, pastors spoke against the president's decision Wednesday—but kindly of the man himself. A few blasted the president and his decision. A minority spoke in favor of the decision and expressed understanding of the president's change of heart.
Bishop Timothy Clark, head of the First Church of God, a large African-American church with a television ministry in Columbus, Ohio, was perhaps most typical. He felt compelled to address the president's comments at a Wednesday evening service and again Sunday morning. He was responding to an outpouring of calls, e-mails and text messages from members of his congregation after the president's remarks.
What did he hear from churchgoers? "No church or group is monolithic. Some were powerfully agitated and disappointed. Others were curious. 'Why now? To what end?' Others were hurt. And others, to be honest, told me it's not an issue and they don't have a problem with it."
What did the bishop tell his congregation? He opposes gay marriage. It is not just a social issue, he said, but a religious one for those who follow the Bible. "The spiritual issue is ground in the word of God." That said, "I believe the statement the president made and his decision was made in good faith. I am sure because the president is a good man. I know his decision was made after much thought and consideration and, I'm sure, even prayer."

[r29l20]

Is it really anyone elses bussiness, who someone wants to be with, or who they can marry ?

[powderman]

THe news just said that the LGBT group honored their hero today.
r29120. No such thing as a gay marriage. Marriage is between a Man, a Woman, and God. God is not a part of the so called perverted marriages. They can call it anything they want, but they aint married in Gods eyes. POWDERMAN.