obummer backs gay marriage.

[r29l20]

I guess until someone walks a mile in their shoes. Who am I to judge?

[scootrd]

Is it really anyone elses bussiness, who someone wants to be with, or who they can marry ?

Nope certainly not the Govt / Its a religious ceremony. Find a church that supports you and have at it.
You can be miserable right along with half the other married folks I know. I could honestly care less one
way or the other.

[powderman]

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=AtTP5sB2lJF6VWyOp0m8d0GbvZx4;_ylu=X3oDMTVzc3JlMzU4BGEDTEdCVCwgTGF0aW5vIERvbm9ycyBTaG93IE9iYW1hIExvdmUgZm9yICdNYXJyaWFnZSBFcXVhbGl0eScEY2NvZGUDcHpidWFsbGNhaDUEY3BvcwMyBGcDaWQtMjI4MzEyNwRpbnRsA3VzBG1jb2RlA3B6YnVhbGxjYWg1BG1wb3MDNwRwa2d0AzIEcG9zAzEEc2VjA3RkLXBvbARzbGsDdGl0bGUEdGVzdAM3MDEEd29lAzEyNzc1MTUw/SIG=1407sasol/EXP=1337123333/**http%3A//news.yahoo.com/lgbt-latino-donors-show-obama-love-marriage-equality-221431585--abc-news-politics.html
 
 
 
The lgbt crowd shows their hero some love. Aint it great. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  Now, if you don't believe in the Christian God, ignore this post.  However, for Christians I am dismayed that they should back continued perversion.  A perversion if not repented from and struggled with, can condemn a person to outer darkness. Are you willing to let them languish in hell ?  It is their destiny if they stay with their sin..shouting "gay pride" and not accepting that they are in deadly error. 
  Here is God's own opinion on the subject;
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
 

<< Romans 1 >> New International Version 1984     "22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them" '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''      If you claim Christ and also back "gay marriage"...you better repent and turn in prayer to Him..              "he who has an ear, let him hear"..

[r29l20]

Being gay is not a choice.

[ironglow]

Being gay is not a choice.

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
   Only your opinion !!!  God says it is a choice and He gives it's practitioners plenty of chances to quit the sin..
 
  Is rape, pedophilia and beastiality also not a choice ?

[r29l20]

Wow, tell me how you really feel. I hope for you, you never have a loved one that is gay. They are wired wrong, yes, but it is how their wired. I just can't understand why it's so hard to accept. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's normal, but it's not mine to judge. Pedophilia, rape, and beastiality are crimes, so they are not the same. I'm not trying to change anyones mind, it's just my take on it. I don't mean to offend anyone.

[Dixie Dude]

I mentioned earlier that if they were born this way, it is a genetic defect.  Not wanting to procreate normally.  If it is a genetic defect, then it is an illness like schizophrenia or bi-polar.  They can't make normal people gay nor do they have to push their agenda on normal people.  Just like a schizophrenic or bi-polar person thinks they are normal, when they are not.  Hello.  It is a Biblical sin for Christians, it is a sin for Muslims, it is a sin for Jews.  Marriage is for man and woman, period.  If they want benefits or rights, let them work for and seek them, not change an institution from the begining of civilised time.  I don't care what they do.  I don't have to do it, but don't change the definition of marriage.  Read my earlier posts. 

[powderman]

Being gay is not a choice.

 
THey have the choice to deny their immoral behaviour, or give in to it. YES, they have a choice. Did you read what IG posted from the Bible?? POWDERMAN. 

[r29l20]

I'm sorry I'm wrong.   I have no opinion.

[powderman]

I'm sorry I'm wrong.   I have no opinion.

 
r29120. Yes you do, everybody has an opinion. Yours are just as valid as anybody elses. I don't agree with you but all opinions are welcome, even if they are wrong.   POWDERMAN. 

[yorketransport]

I haven't been active on this site for a while, and in many ways this thread reminds me why. 


I am an atheist in the truest, purest form. I was raised in a religious family who was very active in the Lutheran church. I left religion and lost all faith because of arguments like this. How can I follow a "God" who would promote hate and intolerance?


There will always be some sort of rationalization for the hate, prejudice, and ignorance. But it always comes back to circular reasoning. The reason the behavior is wrong is because it's a sin. The reason it's a sin is because the Bible says it is. The reason it's in the Bible is because it's a sin. Round and round and round it goes.......


It is conversations like this which have reaffirmed my decision to be atheist. I am not saying that any religion is wrong. That isn't what atheism represents. I simply cannot support an institution which would promote hate and condemnation. Likewise, I will not raise my children in that sort of environment. If that's a direction they choose to go that's their decision to make. Not mine. I hope to raise intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate, and empathetic children.


My stance on this subject can be summed up by a simple statement I make to my kids every day:


Just because you don't agree with somebody, doesn't mean that they're wrong.


Andrew

[R.W.Dale]

I could care less what two consenting adults decide to do in their personal lives or what they choose to call it as it has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on my marriage and personal life.

If you think it affects you all I can say is you have your own insecurities that probably need to be addressed first.

Its also nice to see hatred and name calling is in fact OK on this site provided its directed to a group universally disapproved of.

Marriage is both a religious institution AND a legally binding union in the eyes of the law.

Your church is responsible for the first part. The .gov is not concerned with the Biblical ramifications of this matter they are (and should) err on the side of liberty and justice for ALL!

[ironglow]

I haven't been active on this site for a while, and in many ways this thread reminds me why. 


I am an atheist in the truest, purest form. I was raised in a religious family who was very active in the Lutheran church. I left religion and lost all faith because of arguments like this. How can I follow a "God" who would promote hate and intolerance?


There will always be some sort of rationalization for the hate, prejudice, and ignorance. But it always comes back to circular reasoning. The reason the behavior is wrong is because it's a sin. The reason it's a sin is because the Bible says it is. The reason it's in the Bible is because it's a sin. Round and round and round it goes.......


It is conversations like this which have reaffirmed my decision to be atheist. I am not saying that any religion is wrong. That isn't what atheism represents. I simply cannot support an institution which would promote hate and condemnation. Likewise, I will not raise my children in that sort of environment. If that's a direction they choose to go that's their decision to make. Not mine. I hope to raise intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate, and empathetic children.


My stance on this subject can be summed up by a simple statement I make to my kids every day:


Just because you don't agree with somebody, doesn't mean that they're wrong.


Andrew

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
   MYy first line in my post above;
 
 "  Now, if you don't believe in the Christian God, ignore this post."

[Savage .250]

He heard the drum beat, which is loud and clear, so he just joined the band.

[ironglow]

He heard the drum beat, which is loud and clear, so he just joined the band.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  Just another way to divide Americans.

[ironglow]

He heard the drum beat, which is loud and clear, so he just joined the band.

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  This is just another attempt by Obammy to divide Americans.  This subject was a dead issue, until obammy dredged it up again.
  If he was serious about it, he and his Democrat house and senate could have done it 2 years ago..    

[r29l20]

I'm sorry I'm wrong.   I have no opinion.

 
r29120. Yes you do, everybody has an opinion. Yours are just as valid as anybody elses. I don't agree with you but all opinions are welcome, even if they are wrong.   POWDERMAN. 

Thanks.

[BUGEYE]

everyones children misbehaves.  are there no consequences when your children misbehave?

my daughter knew the house rules, and she was punished when she broke them...

God gave us a rule book (bible) which is very plain.  if you choose to disregard it, you will be punished.   when you dishonor his name, he is angry with you.  but repent, and he'll welcome you with open arms, just like you would do your own child.

eternity is forever....  do you want to spend it worshiping God?  or just wishing you could?

[guzzijohn]

For the most part Romans 1 vs 28-31 for the most part describe Newt and some conservative talk show personalities.
GuzziJohn

[ironglow]

For the most part Romans 1 vs 28-31 for the most part describe Newt and some conservative talk show personalities.
GuzziJohn

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  Come on Guzzi;
  The queerness question is dealt Biblically with in Romans 1:22-28....don't try spin and blow smoke !
  I simply asked how any Christian worthy of the name deals with the following verses:
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
    "22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them"   (Romans 1:22-28)
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  How do you reconcile your belief with God's belief & word ?

[Dixie Dude]

I agree, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.  However, we are to be fruit inspectors, but not judges.  God is the ultimate judge.  We are just to tell the truth.  Sometimes it hurts.  Adultry, bigomy, glutony, sodomy (being gay).  All are sins.  Some sins have more dire consequences.  Gay's have more disease like aids, hepititus, etc.  Gay life expectancy is low.  Both are reasons not to be gay and put your sexual desires under control.  Same with fornication and adultry.  They have consequenses, stds, unwanted pregnancy.  Adultry leads to divorce, which can affect children, leads to more child abuse, unbridled anger sometimes leads to fights or murder.  There are consequences for all sins.  Can't make any of them "right" when they are wrong.  Children born to two normal parents who don't get divorced are 97% less likely to get into trouble and have emotional issues.  There are consequences to all of the sins.  That is why God tells us they are sins. 
 
Even if you are an athiest or agnostic, evolution says gays should die out, that they are an anomoly and not normal.  They can't or won't procreate. 
 
Everything in the Bible is taught because it actually has a practical purpose.  For instance, murderers were put to death.  Why? Recently a study was done that said crime can be genetic.  Children 50% of the time end up doing the same crime or sin that their parents have done.  If you put murderers to death, then over time murders go down in statistics. 
 
Being gay, adultry, fornication, beastiality, pediphilia, rape, are all sexual sins, uncontroled sexual drives.  They all have consequences.  Can't legalise them to be normal. 

[Dixie Dude]

Christians are also not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness.  I work with all kinds of people.  I don't make friends with those who have committed adultry, gays, drunkards, shoplifters, theves, or drug users, or even people who like to get handouts.  My friends can disagree with me on a lot of issues, but they will all have the same core beliefs that I have.  This doesn't mean we are judging these people, it means "by their fruits, you shall know them".  We don't like rotten fruit so we avoid it. 

[magooch]

Some say that they don't care what two consenting adults do to each other, but like almost everything, there are limits.  What if they choose to beat the hell out of each other?  Sooner, or later their choice is going to spill out onto society and we'll have to pick up the pieces.
 
So whether they call it marriage, or whatever, is it fair to limit same sex unions to homos?  What if a couple of same sex friends want an arrangement where they share in each others work and social security benefits?  I can imagine a lot of guys and gals might buddy up in order to receive the spousal and extended benefits from Social Security.  What would that do for the economic viability of the system?
 
The simple remedy is to require that any legal marriage have two elements--an adult husband and an adult wife.  The "wife" must be a female.  The "husband" must be a male.  This has nothing to do with any obligation to procreate, or even live together.  It's just natures way and some things shouldn't be tampered with.
 
Any other arrangement that two, or more consenting adults of any gender, or genders want to have, should have no legal standing in qualifying for benefits from an employer, or from any government source.
 
None of this should have anything to do with religion--it's just common sense.

[scootrd]

Christians are also not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness.  I work with all kinds of people.  I don't make friends with those who have committed adultry, gays, drunkards, shoplifters, theves, or drug users, or even people who like to get handouts.  My friends can disagree with me on a lot of issues, but they will all have the same core beliefs that I have.  This doesn't mean we are judging these people, it means "by their fruits, you shall know them".  We don't like rotten fruit so we avoid it. 

Hmmm , I wonder if Jesus would have befriended "them" you know "those sinner types"
What was that previously stated... oh yeah hate the sin ... not the sinner???
So much for truly practicing Christian beliefs.

In my wife's small town in Texas where she grew up  -  The Catholics pretended not to recognize the Presbyterians , the Presbyterians pretended not to recognize the Baptists , and the Baptists pretended not to recognize each other , when
they all showed up at the same Liquor store after each denominations service.

Just food for thought.

[r29l20]

Wow I can't beleve how many perfect people are on here.   Let he without sin cast the first stone. A sin is a sin right, no sin is greater than another. You guys don't do anything wrong ? I'll bet some of you wouldn't mind two women together though. That's the way they were born right, but who made them ?

[powderman]

Wow I can't beleve how many perfect people are on here.   Let he without sin cast the first stone. A sin is a sin right, no sin is greater than another

 
Nobody here or anywhere else on earth is sinless. Jesus Christ was and is the only one without sin. The Christian Bible is our rule book and a key to our eternal Salvation, which is available to ALL mankind. It's like our roadmap to Heaven. God gave us all free will. We choose to be good or bad, do good or do evil, Heaven or hell is also our choice. We believe Gods words or we don't. I judge no man. Theres a huge difference in judging and pointing out sin. Our pastor has said many times, for me to know the truth and not tell you, your blood will be on my hands. The choice is up to you, Choose wisely my friends. POWDERMAN. 

[Dixie Dude]

The only reason Jesus associated with sinners was to convert them.  True Christians do the same.  If I had someone like that over, it is my responsibility to talk to them about accepting Jesus as savior.  Jesus said "go and sin no more".  The people he associated with like the tax collector, who said he would repay those he took from, (that is conversion).  I know a gay guy who I got to go to church one time.  He went for a while, but didn't convert.  Being gay is basically an addiction.  Many people have different addictions like alcohol, drugs, gay is a sexual addiction.  Sometimes a genetic flaw causes an addictive personality.  Sometimes it is triggered by circumstances growing up.  The gay guy had an older strong willed sister and a controling mother.  He never knew his father, so he had no male role model.  He was a hair dresser, lived across the street.  He moved off to Atlanta, never heard from him again.  I wouldn't go shopping with him, or do other things, but to witness or get him to go to church.  Of course he didn't like hunting, fishing, or football, so we had nothing in common. 
 
Alcoholics when converted have to lay off the booze or they go back into the sin.  Some can social drink or have a nightcap and never get drunk, they can control it.  Same with a gay.  Has to lay off the desire for sex outside the norm.  Stay away from gay bars, etc. 
 
Probably from what I have seen, the biggest sin of real christians is gluttony.  They just love to eat, especially at chruch socials.  Like someone said any sin can keep you out of heaven without repentance and conversion.  However there are consequenses to different sins.  Gluttony will get you high blood pressure, strokes, diabetes.  Sexual sins have far greater bad consequences. 
 
Uncontrolled anger can lead to murder.  Have to get forgiveness and give up bitterness and resentment, forgive others who have done you wrong. 
 
Basically you have to have control of your life, and the only real way to get that is through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. 

[powderman]

Basically you have to have control of your life, and the only real way to get that is through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. 

 
DIXIE DUDE. Another great post Sir. The above quote pretty well says it all. I see folks every day without God in their lives and it makes me sad, knowing where they are headed. I feel sorry for them. POWDERMAN. 

[r29l20]

Oh no, I'm going to hell cause I accept people for who they are.