Author Topic: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..  (Read 2054 times)

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Offline scootrd

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2012, 08:12:12 AM »
Ron Paul's mentality of letting everyone be responsible for themselves and make their own choices .........is in the edge of insanity.

Ron Paul's mentality of letting everyone Israel be responsible for themselves and make their own choices .........is not in the edge of insanity. It's spot on.

Why in the world did we fight those silly old British anyways. Of course it must have been insanity for wanting to be left alone to make our own choices.

Silly me , and here I thought all along self reliance and independence was how true nations are born ..
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Offline Buckskin

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2012, 08:57:11 AM »
Ron Paul's mentality of letting everyone be responsible for themselves and make their own choices .........is in the edge of insanity.

Ron Paul's mentality of letting everyone Israel be responsible for themselves and make their own choices .........is not in the edge of insanity. It's spot on.

Why in the world did we fight those silly old British anyways. Of course it must have been insanity for wanting to be left alone to make our own choices.

Silly me , and here I thought all along self reliance and independence was how true nations are born ..

So who's fighting for independence??? And who wants to be left alone??? You bring in irrelevant examples as usual.  Ron Paul wants to pull all foreign aid and close all offshore military bases.  That my friend is the edge of insanity.  Wow bold really accentuates the statement...
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2012, 09:27:21 AM »
Ron Paul's mentality of letting everyone be responsible for themselves and make their own choices .........is in the edge of insanity.

Ron Paul's mentality of letting everyone Israel be responsible for themselves and make their own choices .........is not in the edge of insanity. It's spot on.

Why in the world did we fight those silly old British anyways. Of course it must have been insanity for wanting to be left alone to make our own choices.

Silly me , and here I thought all along self reliance and independence was how true nations are born ..

So who's fighting for independence??? And who wants to be left alone??? You bring in irrelevant examples as usual.  Ron Paul wants to pull all foreign aid and close all offshore military bases.  That my friend is the edge of insanity.  Wow bold really accentuates the statement...




Why do you feel pulling foreign aid and closing off shore military bases is insane?
I think his examples are very relevant.


According to the Pentagon, we have around 865 bases around the globe, and if you include Afg. and Iraq it's well over a thou. It's the American version of colonization.We have an empire of bases that cost the American tax payer around 130 billion per year.What could we do for national defense here at home with that kind of money ;) . Not to mention the money spent by our personnel in these foreign countries, that boost their economy.......NOT OURS!Wouldn't it be better to spend it here at home, and boost ours?If that's insanity we need more crazy people.I was part of the cold war military in Germany in the 60's. One of the excuses then was to keep the Soviet Union from spreading communism to western Germany. That wall came down a long time ago, and we are still there....Colonizing!




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Offline scootrd

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2012, 12:13:09 PM »
The current estimate by the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs of cumulative total U.S. direct aid to Israel is $123.202 billion Unquestionably, Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. aid since World War II.The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.2 million each day

 The source for US military aid to Israel during Fiscal Year 2011 is the Congressional Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated September 16, 2010. According to this report, the Obama Administration requested $3 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) for Israel for the fiscal year 2011.

Israel ranks around 16 as one of the wealthiest nations. HMMM wonder how they got that way.

AND YOU ALL WORRY ABOUT WELFARE MOTHERS AND UNEMPLOYED LIVING OFF THE REST OF US???
forget the welfare state we have our own welfare Nation.

lets just put another star on our flag and call 'em 51. Now if we could only get them to pay U.S. taxes .

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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2012, 01:03:12 PM »
Quote
Why do you feel pulling foreign aid and closing off shore military bases is insane?
I think his examples are very relevant.


According to the Pentagon, we have around 865 bases around the globe, and if you include Afg. and Iraq it's well over a thou. It's the American version of colonization.We have an empire of bases that cost the American tax payer around 130 billion per year.What could we do for national defense here at home with that kind of money ;) . Not to mention the money spent by our personnel in these foreign countries, that boost their economy.......NOT OURS!Wouldn't it be better to spend it here at home, and boost ours?If that's insanity we need more crazy people.I was part of the cold war military in Germany in the 60's. One of the excuses then was to keep the Soviet Union from spreading communism to western Germany. That wall came down a long time ago, and we are still there....Colonizing!

Good point NW. Here in New England we have the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, an excellent submarine repair facility. My father retired from there. It is slated to go on the chopping block - http://www.kjonline.com/news/portsmouth-naval-shipyard-to-again-be-target-for-closure__2012-01-26.html

Thousands of jobs will be lost. In the meantime we have plenty of money for our Global Colonization efforts with hundreds of bases through out the world and multi front wars. And of course, plenty of money for Isreal, who has plenty of their own money to buy more weapons without stealing billions from American taxpayers.
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2012, 02:03:39 PM »
Wierd! I have always been a supporter of Israel and felt that they were in the position of being pushed around by their large neighbors.
 
But the more I learn about them these days, the less I feel like being their friend! They got plenty of financial resources, we are trillions in debt, let them BUY what they need from us or from someplace else. I could car less if they are "Gods Chosen People". If God wants to take of them tyhen he will......and he doesn't need us to do it for him. That whole argument is just a red herring platitude.
 
What has Israel done for us lately? I don't see them rushing to help us out of our financial straits or offering to take up the slack in fighting terrorism.
 
Like I said, I used to buy into that whole, "poor little Israel" thing........not anymore!
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2012, 03:19:06 PM »
Like I said, I used to buy into that whole, "poor little Israel" thing........not anymore!

Exactly ,
and I'm not being antisemitic (I have family members who are Jewish). It;s so much fun round the holiday table debating our relationship with Israel. Do I want them to exist sure I do. Do I want them to keep suckling off America's teat.. Nope , that old song played out long long ago for me.

Time to stand on your own.

RP is right.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2012, 05:52:35 PM »
Wierd! I have always been a supporter of Israel and felt that they were in the position of being pushed around by their large neighbors.
 
But the more I learn about them these days, the less I feel like being their friend! They got plenty of financial resources, we are trillions in debt, let them BUY what they need from us or from someplace else. I could car less if they are "Gods Chosen People". If God wants to take of them tyhen he will......and he doesn't need us to do it for him. That whole argument is just a red herring platitude.
 
What has Israel done for us lately? I don't see them rushing to help us out of our financial straits or offering to take up the slack in fighting terrorism.
 
Like I said, I used to buy into that whole, "poor little Israel" thing........not anymore!
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2012, 03:59:13 AM »
I am always surprised how we in US have been bamboozled by this financial parasitic and at times unhealthy one sided relationship. I understand supporting our allies and all that (in times of need, and if no detriment to our own economy etc..) However there are those that argue our relationship with Israel is one of the main causes why our country
has to protect our own boarder against threats. If you all want a very serious read (and yes it is long read , but a well thought out paper) . It also points out how we have been bamboozaled into even being allowed to debate the relationship at all in congress and in open quarams like this thread post without those questioning the health of our ties being labeled as Semi-semites. No one want to even discuss it. Totally taboo subject imposed by effective Israel lobbyists.

Read the following

- http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby
 John Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science
at the University of Chicago.
Excerpts - (but please go to link and re-read in entirety and in full-context.)
excerpt 1 -
Beginning in the 1990s, and even more after 9/11, US support has been justified by the claim that both states are threatened by terrorist groups originating in the Arab and Muslim world, and by ‘rogue states’ that back these groups and seek weapons of mass destruction. This is taken to mean not only that Washington should give Israel a free hand in dealing with the Palestinians and not press it to make concessions until all Palestinian terrorists are imprisoned or dead, but that the US should go after countries like Iran and Syria. Israel is thus seen as a crucial ally in the war on terror, because its enemies are America’s enemies. In fact, Israel is a liability in the war on terror and the broader effort to deal with rogue states.
More important, saying that Israel and the US are united by a shared terrorist threat has the causal relationship backwards: the US has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel, not the other way around.

excerpt 2
As for so-called rogue states in the Middle East, they are not a dire threat to vital US interests, except inasmuch as they are a threat to Israel. Even if these states acquire nuclear weapons – which is obviously undesirable – neither America nor Israel could be blackmailed, because the blackmailer could not carry out the threat without suffering overwhelming retaliation.

excerpt 3
A final reason to question Israel’s strategic value is that it does not behave like a loyal ally. Israeli officials frequently ignore US requests and renege on promises (including pledges to stop building settlements and to refrain from ‘targeted assassinations’ of Palestinian leaders). Israel has provided sensitive military technology to potential rivals like China, in what the State Department inspector-general called ‘a systematic and growing pattern of unauthorised transfers’.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
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Offline powderman

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2012, 04:12:06 AM »
There are many reasons to support Israel, namely God, BUUUUUUTTTTTT, why do we support the palis and hamas, or any other muslim peoples who hate us?? There are no good reasons and imam obama just sent the palis and hamas another $143 million. They said they were running low on ammo, bombs, and rockets. Israel is the only REAL friend we have in that entire region. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2012, 08:11:54 AM »
There are many reasons to support Israel, namely God, BUUUUUUTTTTTT, why do we support the palis and hamas, or any other muslim peoples who hate us?? There are no good reasons and imam obama just sent the palis and hamas another $143 million. They said they were running low on ammo, bombs, and rockets. Israel is the only REAL friend we have in that entire region. POWDERMAN.  :o :o

You do realize , Israel is only our "friend" when it suits them and their agenda's. (kinda like a selfish self centered democratic relative)
They have spied on us considerably. Gave away secrets etc.. I would state it more as we have mutual interests in the region, and are allies in the causes that benefit us mutually. Friend? I don't think I would go that far .  more like allies when it suits both nations agenda's .  If you get a chance to set some time aside PDMAN read the article in full. I value your opinions and input, even when we respectfully agree to disagree of some subjects.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2012, 09:13:01 AM »
Like I said, I used to buy into that whole, "poor little Israel" thing........not anymore!
you and I have something in common... we're teachable, eventually. I've changed my view on a number of things past few years.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Nuke41

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2012, 09:55:56 AM »
 Just out of curiosity, how many of you that have posted on this already actually took the time to find H.R. 4133 online and read it beforehand?  There are some things in there that will cost the US money and some that won’t.  I didn’t see any commentary about the bill  promoting the expansion of the US munitions stockpile located in Israel, I think I know what Army G4 Ammo and Air Force munitions think about that.
 
 
I’m not going to spend my Saturday banging out a security assistance 101 primer; I would encourage everyone interested in this topic to visit the DSCA web site, it has about everything you’d ever want to know about security assistance and how it works.
 
 
http://www.dsca.osd.mil/research.htm
 
 
I think most, if not all of you have a misunderstanding about what security assistance is and how it works.  The most misunderstood issue is the actual funding; the vast majority of US security assistance funds are “fenced” or set up as grants and can only be used to buy defense articles or services from US companies.  US funding for security assistance is really more about subsidizing the US defense base than giving funds to foreign countries to spend on their industrial defense base.  You can argue the merits of this, and there are good and bad things about it, but you should understand what you are arguing about.
 
 
Also, Israel, Egypt and Jordan get the lion’s share of US security assistance funds; it was really set up to “buy peace” from them going back to the Camp David Accords.  I’d like to see security assistance funding cut back also, but Paul would impress me allot more as a statesman if he proposed to use US influence to promote a lasting peace in the Middle East before he pulls the drain on US funding, since that funding buys influence.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2012, 11:27:37 AM »
Also, Israel, Egypt and Jordan get the lion’s share of US security assistance funds; it was really set up to “buy peace” from them going back to the Camp David Accords.  I’d like to see security assistance funding cut back also, but Paul would impress me allot more as a statesman if he proposed to use US influence to promote a lasting peace in the Middle East before he pulls the drain on US funding, since that funding buys influence.
now that's a worthwhile point & critique of Dr Paul (of whom I'm a fan)
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2012, 02:00:50 PM »
Quote
You do realize , Israel is only our "friend" when it suits them and their agenda's. (kinda like a selfish self centered democratic relative)
They have spied on us considerably. Gave away secrets etc.. I would state it more as we have mutual interests in the region, and are allies in the causes that benefit us mutually. Friend? I don't think I would go that far .  more like allies when it suits both nations agenda's .  If you get a chance to set some time aside PDMAN read the article in full. I value your opinions and input, even when we respectfully agree to disagree of some subjects.

Don't forget to add "attacked the USS Liberty which killed 34 crew members and wounded 170 others" to that list. Nice "friends", huh?
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

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Offline scootrd

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Re: Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2012, 04:02:14 PM »
I think most, if not all of you have a misunderstanding about what security assistance is and how it works.  The most misunderstood issue is the actual funding; the vast majority of US security assistance funds are “fenced” or set up as grants and can only be used to buy defense articles or services from US companies.

Buke I have a complete understanding ...and Israel is given special dispensation.

Ie:

Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing that given to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct economic and military assistance since 1976, and is the largest recipient in total since World War Two. Other nation recipients get their money in quarterly installments, but Israel receives its entire appropriation at the beginning of each fiscal year and can thus earn interest on it.


Most recipients of aid given for military purposes are requiredto spend all of it in the US, but Israel is allowed to use roughly 25 per cent of its allocation to subsidise its own defence industry. It is the only recipient that does not have to account for how the aid is spent.

Tell me they don't have great lobbyists and ties tight into our congressional Checkbooks.
Heres's 3 billion, no you don't have to account to us how you spend it.

And you didn't even have to spend your whole Saturday splainin it to me!!!!.


Semper Fi
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"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant