Ron Paul: Military Aid Will Lead to War..

[TM7]

Ahhh, yeah! he's got that right.....www.rt.com.....TM7
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.'It will lead to war' - Ron Paul fights to end military aid for Israel  Link copied to clipboardemail story to a friendprint versionPublished: 10 May, 2012, 00:46Republican presidential candidate, U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (AFP Photo / Ethan Miller)TRENDS:Israel vs IranTAGS:Military,      NATO,      Politics,      Law,      USA,      Israel

 Presidential hopeful Ron Paul has condemned a plan being considered in the United States House of Representatives that would allow for the US to continue aiding in the defense of Israel by equipping the Jewish state’s military with added weaponry. From Washington, D.C. on Wednesday, Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas) attacked the contents of an act currently up for discussion that, if passed, would reestablish America’s major role in Israeli affairs. Rep Paul fears, however, that it would do more harm than good for all nations involved.
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To House Speak John Boehner, Paul said that H.R. 4133, the United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act of 2012, “is another piece of one-sided and counter-productive foreign policy legislation.”
“This bill's real intent seems to be more saber-rattling against Iran and Syria,” insisted Paul, “and it undermines US diplomatic efforts by making clear that the US is not an honest broker seeking peace for the Middle East.”
“The bill calls for the United States to significantly increase our provision of sophisticated weaponry to Israel, and states that it is to be US policy to ‘help Israel preserve its qualitative military edge’ in the region,” added the congressman.
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The bill itself was created to reaffirm America's "commitment to Israel's security as a Jewish state," "provide Israel with the military capabilities to defend itself," "expand military and civil cooperation" and "encourage Israel's neighbors to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state," among other matters according to the official synapsis included in the legislation. It was introduced in March by Rep. Eric Cantor and discussed for around one hour on Wednesday afternoon before a motion to reconsider was laid on the table and agreed without objection.
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Explaining his opposition, Rep. Paul told his fellow lawmakers that “While I absolutely believe that Israel – and any other nation – should be free to determine for itself what is necessary for its national security, I do not believe that those decisions should be underwritten by US taxpayers and backed up by the US military.”
***“This bill states that it is the policy of the United States to ‘reaffirm the enduring commitment of the United States to the security of the State of Israel as a Jewish state,’” said the congressman. “However, according to our Constitution the policy of the United States government should be to protect the security of the United States, not to guarantee the religious, ethnic, or cultural composition of a foreign country. In fact, our own Constitution prohibits the establishment of any particular religion in the US.”
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“This bill will not help the United States, it will not help Israel, and it will not help the Middle East,” concluded Paul. “It will implicitly authorize much more US interventionism in the region at a time when we cannot afford the foreign commitments we already have. It more likely will lead to war against Syria, Iran, or both. I urge my colleagues to vote against this bill.”
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[ironglow]

 Paul is hitting a snag of his own creation.  Rasmussen, in the latest poll says if the election were a 3-way and held today, Romney would win in spite of Paul.
   How can this be, since Paul is getting a steady 13% of the electorate ?  The answer is quite simple.. Paul draws from both conservatives and liberals.  The conservatives like his stance on the constitution and spending...and the liberals like his idea of defunding the military & allies, along with his drive to legalize even the most addictive of illegal drugs.
  According to Rasmussen, Paul effectively cancels himself in the electoral process..taking from both major parties about equally.
      http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/may_2012/three_way_race_romney_44_obama_39_ron_paul_13

[powderman]

RPS snubbing of Gods chosen ones is a big reason he has gone nowhere, and deservedly so. POWDERMAN. 

[gypsyman]

Not sure why I believe this, but I really don't think that weather we give aid to Israel or not, it will not make a tinkers damn that it will lead to war. We've been sending aid to Israel for how many decade's, and I truly believe that the only reason they haven't been annihilated is because the country's that surround them, know that Israel will respond expediently. And, the country's that are likely to go to war with Israel, don't like us anyway. Never did,never will. gypsyman

[scootrd]

RP is spot on.

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none."
Thomas Jefferson,

No one disputes they are Gods chosen , but as such , then the Lord will provide. They want to purchase weapons - fine with me. They want aid  -  I'm not on board .

We keep playing the same ME record over and over again. Our ME Policies are idiotic at best.

On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline, "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into" the power it became",^[5] and "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq.

It's not our Job to police nor help protect .
Countries need to protect their own borders.
If attacked and requested our help  -  well as allies I'm sure we would respond if necessary. It's time we extract ourselves from ME politics . Let 'em solve their own disputes.

Sometimes Israel reminds me of my little brother who always got into beefs on the playground then would come whining to me to step in and take up for him. Little brother you gotta grow up sometime and become responsible for yourself -  that's not anti semetic , its just time to remove the crutches and start standing on your own two feet.

[Dixie Dude]

We were supporting Iraq back then because they were at odds with Iran who just recently had our hostiges and then had a war with Iraq.  Iraqs little dictator Saddam Hussen after fighting Iran, killing Kurds in his own country, then decided to invade Kuiwat.  That is the problem with all the Islamic countries, they all have some sort of dictators.  Some friendly with us, some not.  Depends on their whims at the time.  We gave just as much aid to Egypt as Israel after they signed a peace treaty together and Israel withdrawed out of the Sinai. 

[Buckskin]

Inmaterial!.....Ron Paul has wide spread support...and has won several states. he represents a departure form the dual faction War Party... Americans want that.  At this point real RP supporters have to consider election fraud...the reality of that...they have no choice....
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..TM7

Wide spread support is a stretch. He won a few states, not several, Romney has 966 deligates to Paul's 107....  He has good economic sense and I hope Romney appoints him head of the Fed Reserve. Other than that Paul is a nut job with fringe support.  I do like the guy, funny as hell and a nice break from the typical politician...
 
As far as giving Israel military support, I'm with Gypsyman. Doesn't make any difference, they would be wiped out if we didn't. At some point we will be at war with every radical country in the block so what's the difference. Actually it probably delays the inevitable....

[Cuts Crooked]

  I do like the guy, funny as hell and a nice break from the typical politician...

It's called "honesty", something you rarely get from politicians......and also the reason you should support him.

[scootrd]

As far as giving Israel military support, I'm with Gypsyman. Doesn't make any difference, they would be wiped out if we didn't.

They wouldn't be wiped out ... They are Gods Chosen people remember.

Perhaps if Big brother stops bailing them out , they would have to get serious about peace negotiations with the neighbors they need to share their neighborhood with. Right now they whine on world stage and big brothers come running. As a country , there comes a time when you have to grow up. and before everyone starts crying foul ball , I'm for the right of Isreal to exist .. It's just time they step up on the world stage and begin to act as an independent  country.

If not ...

perhaps they should just become another star on our flag , and they can join our country as another state of the U.S.
at least then instead of suckling off the teat  they can start contributing to our economy and paying income taxes. 

You want our weapons ? purchase them at retail price like everyone else.

[powderman]

 

No one disputes they are Gods chosen , but as such , then the Lord will provide.
 
 
SCOOTRD. And the Lord has been providing, using the help of the United States. God uses not only people to do his work but entire nations as well. We have been blessed BECAUSE we have blessed Israel. Shame on us if we turn our back on them. POWDERMAN. 

[Cuts Crooked]

SCOOTRD. And the Lord has been providing, using the help of the United States. God uses not only people to do his work but entire nations as well. We have been blessed BECAUSE we have blessed Israel. Shame on us if we turn our back on them. POWDERMAN. 

Well guess what? I'm tired of being "blessed" with the likes of Obbumer and O'romeny trying to run our country. I don't think we can stand many more "blessings" like them.

[ironglow]

RP is spot on.

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none."
Thomas Jefferson,   That worked well in the age of sailing ships and 18 pounder cannons..when the ocean was a month and a half crossing.  But now we are dealing with nuclear, biological and chemical weapons that can be here in minutes on a cruise missle.  We have also entered the computer age when we are perhaps more vulnerable than ever.

No one disputes they are Gods chosen , but as such , then the Lord will provide. They want to purchase weapons - fine with me. They want aid  -  I'm not on board .  The Lord moves in mysterious ways.

We keep playing the same ME record over and over again. Our ME Policies are idiotic at best.  They have been getting progressively..or rather exponentially worse over the last 3.5 years.

On June 9, 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline, "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into" the power it became",^[5] and "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq.   That's called "playing one side against the other.  Perhaps you forgot it was the late 1970s, and into the 80s.. when the hapless Jimmy Carter let the Islamofacists take over in Iran and take our embassy staff hostage.  Better Saddam's boys shed their blood..or would you rather Americans were killed then too ?

It's not our Job to police nor help protect .
Countries need to protect their own borders.  ICBMs , Cruise missles and biological agents don't recognize "borders".
If attacked and requested our help  -  well as allies I'm sure we would respond if necessary. It's time we extract ourselves from ME politics . Let 'em solve their own disputes.  If you think a general conflict in the ME wouldn't affect us in myraid ways, you're better brush up in strategic studies.

Sometimes Israel reminds me of my little brother who always got into beefs on the playground then would come whining to me to step in and take up for him. Little brother you gotta grow up sometime and become responsible for yourself -  that's not anti semetic , its just time to remove the crutches and start standing on your own two feet.  Do you think a nuclear war in the ME would be to our benefit ? Anyone, including RP who thinks that, needs an update beyond 1802 and Thomas Jefferson.

[m-g Willy]

 

No one disputes they are Gods chosen , but as such , then the Lord will provide.
 
 
SCOOTRD. And the Lord has been providing, using the help of the United States. God uses not only people to do his work but entire nations as well. We have been blessed BECAUSE we have blessed Israel. Shame on us if we turn our back on them. POWDERMAN. 

EXACTLY!!

[Doublebass73]

It will never cease to amaze me, the amount of people who consider themselves "real conservatives" who are willing to send BILLIONS of hard earned taxpayer dollars each year to an already wealthy foreign country that has plenty of weapons to destroy it's stone age neighbors.

[scootrd]

It will never cease to amaze me, the amount of people who consider themselves "real conservatives" who are willing to send BILLIONS of hard earned taxpayer dollars each year to an already wealthy foreign country that has plenty of weapons to destroy it's stone age neighbors.

Agree .

Why everyone thinks we have to be the world police is beyond me.
Course I could be wrong look how well Nam , Afghanistan, and Iraq has worked out for us as of late.

Our interfearance only make the ME less stable not more stable and our country more finacially broke.

[nomosendero]

I see Mr. Paul's point & it would be helpful if it were that simple, but a few questions are in order.
1. If Our Military aid to Isreal would lead to war, would aid from Russia to Iran lead to war?
2. If we cease aid to Isreal but Russia does not cease aid or supplying Missles/other devises, does that make war even more certain.
 
This may and likely does have more than one dimension, but I would expect some of the same folks who are against any aid to Isreal to also say Russia doesn't help the opposing Mid-East countries in various ways.
 
But again I do understand where Mr. Paul is coming from but I don't think he is dealing with the entire problem.
 
 

[yellowtail3]

Israel, 'God's chosen people'? Or nation?
That's a just a get-out-of-jail-free card.

[Matt]

I see Mr. Paul's point & it would be helpful if it were that simple, but a few questions are in order.
1. If Our Military aid to Isreal would lead to war, would aid from Russia to Iran lead to war?
2. If we cease aid to Isreal but Russia does not cease aid or supplying Missles/other devises, does that make war even more certain.
 
This may and likely does have more than one dimension, but I would expect some of the same folks who are against any aid to Isreal to also say Russia doesn't help the opposing Mid-East countries in various ways.
 
But again I do understand where Mr. Paul is coming from but I don't think he is dealing with the entire problem.

Then let them PAY the US for all the:
Vehicles
Aircraft
Missiles
Bombs
Weapons and Weapon Systems
Ammo
and every thing else we send over there rather than us give these things away after all they can afford it.

[ironglow]

Inmaterial!.....Ron Paul has wide spread support...and has won several states. he represents a departure form the dual faction War Party... Americans want that.  At this point real RP supporters have to consider election fraud...the reality of that...they have no choice....
.
..TM7

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  But it is material.. If Paul had left the liberal positions behind and stuck with the conservative positions alone..his 13% would be carved out of the conservative base, giving him some clout to use in curbing the Rinos.  Instead he has flirted with the liberals and has garnered perhaps 6.5% from the libs and 6.5% from the conservatives; effectively cancelling himself out.
   Perhaps there is hope in Rand Paul...

[BUGEYE]

liberals have flocked to him and conservatives have moved away from him for his desire to unleash mind altering drugs on our children.
after some ugly behavior by his followers, I would guess that he may be the darling of OWS.

so stopping aid to Israel, will cause feelings of love and peace in the middle east.
and legalizing drugs, will cause feelings of love and peace in the gutter.

sounds like a plan.

[Junior1942]

Ron Paul is 100% correct on this one.  And as far as them being "God's chosen people," let God provide someone other than the USA to take care of them.  There's reasons the Palestianians hate them.  And THEY and our umbrella of protection for them are why radical Islam hates us.

[nomosendero]

I see Mr. Paul's point & it would be helpful if it were that simple, but a few questions are in order.
1. If Our Military aid to Isreal would lead to war, would aid from Russia to Iran lead to war?
2. If we cease aid to Isreal but Russia does not cease aid or supplying Missles/other devises, does that make war even more certain.
 
This may and likely does have more than one dimension, but I would expect some of the same folks who are against any aid to Isreal to also say Russia doesn't help the opposing Mid-East countries in various ways.
 
But again I do understand where Mr. Paul is coming from but I don't think he is dealing with the entire problem.

Then let them PAY the US for all the:
Vehicles
Aircraft
Missiles
Bombs
Weapons and Weapon Systems
Ammo
and every thing else we send over there rather than us give these things away after all they can afford it.

Yea, let them pay, which has nothing to do with my questions, but I think it's a great idea. I didn't say they shouldn't pay for it.
 
Also, let's stop the foreign aid of ANY kind to the Pal. Authority (1Bil), Egypt and all of the Arab States.

[Buckskin]

Then let them PAY the US for all the:
Vehicles
Aircraft
Missiles
Bombs
Weapons and Weapon Systems
Ammo
and every thing else we send over there rather than us give these things away after all they can afford it.

 I'm all for that! But it's not the worst thing in the world to have an alley with nukes and all the essentials smack dab on the edge of Hell.  It's basically just another military base. I don't think they would hesitate to attack or defend if asked to by the US, well maybe if ZerObama is still in office...

[nw_hunter]

Then let them PAY the US for all the:
Vehicles
Aircraft
Missiles
Bombs
Weapons and Weapon Systems
Ammo
and every thing else we send over there rather than us give these things away after all they can afford it.

 I'm all for that! But it's not the worst thing in the world to have an alley with nukes and all the essentials smack dab on the edge of Hell.  It's basically just another military base. I don't think they would hesitate to attack or defend if asked to by the US, well maybe if ZerObama is still in office...

We need to remember nearly every ally we have today with potent military power, was at one time our enemy.England, France, Germany, Japan Friend today , Foe tomorrow!The world would be a better place if no one had them.

[scootrd]

liberals have flocked to him and conservatives have moved away from him for his desire to unleash mind altering drugs on our children.

A little off topic , but I will address, then we can jump right back on topic. RP does not condone drugs, abortion or any of the like. RP just takes the liberty position that people need be responsible for themselves and their own actions.  Everybody always spouts 'Small Gov't"
but then the same herd want them in all aspects of peoples lives , bedroom, healthcare , contraception, abortion. People need answer for their own moral actions come Judgement day.

We now continue to previously scheduled topic.

[scootrd]

In any case, apparently Ron Paul, like Christ, gets the idea if you want peace.-- then make peace. If you want war--then make war an you'll get that. He also gets the idea that being an American firster is not a choice...its mandatory.
.
..TM7

+1

[Cuts Crooked]

liberals have flocked to him and conservatives have moved away from him for his desire to unleash mind altering drugs on our children.
after some ugly behavior by his followers, I would guess that he may be the darling of OWS.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If this were even remotely true, then your constant whining about a "a vote for RP is the same as a vote for Obbummer" is just BS! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

You REALLY need to think things out a bit before you post this kind of trash! Just in case you decide to use that stupid argument again, I'm gonna keep a link to this one!

[BUGEYE]

liberals have flocked to him and conservatives have moved away from him for his desire to unleash mind altering drugs on our children.

A little off topic , but I will address, then we can jump right back on topic. RP does not condone drugs, abortion or any of the like. RP just takes the liberty position that people need be responsible for themselves and their own actions.  Everybody always spouts 'Small Gov't"
but then the same herd want them in all aspects of peoples lives , bedroom, healthcare , contraception, abortion. People need answer for their own moral actions come Judgement day.

We now continue to previously scheduled topic.

to answer your off-topic post.... young people don't always use the best judgement in their actions, and therefore don't feel much responsibility...
on-topic... I would like to keep Israel as an ally

[scootrd]

to answer your off-topic post.... young people don't always use the best judgement in their actions, and therefore don't feel much responsibility...
on-topic... I would like to keep Israel as an ally

off topic -
That's where parenting not Gov't is suppose to step in. 
We don't need a Govt dictating social issues. If I have personal social concerns , that's what clergy is for.

back On topic  -  fine by me if Israel wants to remain our Ally , but we take care of our own nation first, they need to fight their own neighborhood battles so to speak.I suggest they start getting serious with negotiating Peace process.

As for military aid - no problem  -  Pay retail like everyone else. hers the sticker price , purchase from us if you want or buy off open market from someone else.  Our nation is not here to beef up your foreign military might on our dime.

and while we are on ME discussion, who in Kuwait should we send bill to for pushing Saddam back the first time?
how about just pay the bill in oil.

and Iraq who do we invoice for liberating you from your depot dictator  - how about just pay the bill in oil.

You know when idiots ski off the marked trails to have their "back country experience " round here and we need to send out search and rescue .. the saved idiots pay the expense of the chopper, paramedics and rescue team.

BTW -  my little brother analogy was true , after years of bailing him out of every playground scrap I finally told him I'm not taking up for him anymore, it was amazing how quickly he stopped being an antagonist or instigator knowing he no longer had me to back him up every time so he wouldnt get his clock cleaned. He learned to start playing well with others.
I could go on but why bother.

[Buckskin]

Your little brother analogy is cute... But not realistic when talking middle east.  US stops protecting Israel and all hell will break loose. Ron Paul's mentality of letting everyone be responsible for themselves and make their own choices about everything, everyone love everyone, you leave people alone they will leave you alone, blah, blah, blah is in the edge of insanity.
 
 
By the way, your brother also could have got the crap beat out of him every other day when the other tuffs realized big brother wasn't looking out for him anymore, sort of like Israel...