Israel is losing it

[rio grande]

"...we have reached the point where the proverbial cat is out of the bag... for the first time, Americans are actually beginning to talk and write freely and openly about the problem."

" Many evangelicals have promoted the myth that Israel is actually a protector of Christians, which it most emphatically is not; it seeks instead to marginalize them and force them to emigrate..."

"Philip Zelikow, chief counsel for the 9/11 Commission Report, famously noted in March 2004 that the (Iraq) war was “to protect Israel,” surely an exaggeration but containing more than a kernel of truth. Many also began to observe that the agitation for a new war with Iran was following the same pattern..."

http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2012/05/09/a-tipping-point-for-israel/
 

[mcwoodduck]

Isreal is a religous state.  It tolerates other faiths but to the extent that they follow their laws.
You can not open a pork store in Isreal for example.
Taking your premis at face value, that we fought a war with Iraq to protect Isreal there is a reason for that, Iraq us Arab and if Isreal went to war with Iraq, or any of the other Arab countries around that area all tend ot gang on.
Iran is not an Arab country it is Persian.  The Arabs could care less if the Isreali's attack Iran.
The problem is Isreal will go Nuclear quickly if they are loosing and for some stupid reason Obama and Clinton think they are smart and can control the Iranians and that what they say is not what they mean.
I do not fear a country wanting an nuke arsanal.  I fear a country that only wants 5 nukes.
Think of it like bullets.  Someone that walks into the store and asks for a box of bullets, normal,
Someone that walks in and asks for only 5 bullets has targets for those 5 bullets.  Iran wants nukes to destroy Isreal, and control Saudi Arabia and the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf.
The Isreali Prime minister should have taken the Rude behavior of Obama as there is no way he is going to help Isreal and the Isreali's should have planned their own strike to stop Iran's Nuke fanticy as well as taking out their Power centers, their refinery, and their oil shipping ports.  theyu want ot live in the 14th century send them back to it.

[Nuke41]

 That article is useless in any adult discussion of Middle East peace.  The issues and challenges are far greater than a cartoonish “Israelis bad, Palestinians good”, just as it would be if it proposed the opposite.
 
 
Any serious attempt at peace is going to require heavy international support and intervention, something that is lacking and the article completely ignores that.  If Israel tomorrow unilaterally pulled out of the West Bank, gave back all of occupied Jerusalem and lifted all restrictions on Gaza it still wouldn’t result in any lasting peace.  If the US, Germany, France, England, Russia, Turkey and Saudi Arabia could all agree on a solution it could be accomplished, having Jordan and Egypt onboard would be great, but I think it could be done without them.  Muddled and half-hearted US actions aside, the US is the only one of those nations that seems to want a solution, the rest are either ambivalent or against a solution.
 
 
The argument that the Iraq war was for the benefit of Israel is a poorly constructed conclusion.  Israel national security certainly benefited from the Iraq war but nobody in the world benefited on the scale that Saudi Arabia did.  If I rank ordered the nations that benefited from the Iraq war it would be; 1 Saudi Arabia, 2 Iran and 3 Israel.  Jordan also benefited, but Syria didn’t.

[saddlebum]

Pure liberal BS and propaganda. Anyone who uses the word apartheid connected with Israel either doesn't know what the word means, doesn't know the facts of what Israel's situation is and has been, or both. Thats an infamous liberal lie. There are individual Jews that don't like Christians and there are individual Christians that don't like Jews. Some of them on this website. But there are no governmental policies concerning such blind hatred by individuals. Thats ridiculous! And just because '60 Minutes' has been on the air a long time, does not make them credible. MSNBC has been on the air a long time too...................
 
Start educating yourself here,
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAuBc_cbXo0&list=PL20219A40AF2FC9C4&index=1&feature=plpp_video
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGYxLWUKwWo&list=PL20219A40AF2FC9C4&index=10&feature=plpp_video

[rickt300]

How is it these absolute lies get supprt from the left? Something very wrong with their cognitive abilities.

[rickt300]

Good Post Rio.....all isreal has to do is abide by UN resolutions, allow IAEA inspections of Dimona and with some disarmenent of WMD, establish fixed permanent borders; stop absconding with land, property and water of others, ratify a Constitution, stop sending zapper squads around the globe, stop apartheid and genocide policies as OUTLINED BY THEIR LEADERS, and stop being the largest lobbyiest in this country....The US taxpayer needs to stop supporting this pariah stuff...and allow peace to break out. Problem is immediate profits and colonial expansion aren't supported by Peace; nor the goals of the Int'l Globalist; nor the beliefs of the Rapturists that GWOT is instrumental to their occult eschatology
.
..TM7

Listen to the hate and the leftist BS. And these people want to change the world? Muzzy terrorists make as much sense.

[jimster]

My own thoughts are the U.S. is not in a position to tell anyone else how to run their affairs, I don't think we should be involved in Israel at all, no support because it's our tax money, no advice because we are corrupt to the bone ourselves.  Israel can take care of themselves.  I'm tired of seeing us run around the globe acting like we are the high and mighty and our views are better than everyone else.  Our government buys and sells votes in congress openly, runs guns and ammo across the borders, they are involved in funneling money directly into radical terrorist groups, stealing private land from citizens,  the list goes on, too many to list.  I'd rather we would stop telling others what to do, get out of the other countries, then clean up our own internal corruption we have created. 
Far as anyone, including Israel or the U.S having to abide by the corrupt United Nations resolutions, screw them as well. The U.N has been caught with their hands in the cookie jar more than once, have caused more trouble over the years than they are worth, and have radical socialists and communists in their group...they can go to hell. 
We should just butt out, we have only made things worse.

[rio grande]

 
...........The argument that the Iraq war was for the benefit of Israel is a poorly constructed conclusion.  Israel national security certainly benefited from the Iraq war but nobody in the world benefited on the scale that Saudi Arabia did.  If I rank ordered the nations that benefited from the Iraq war it would be; 1 Saudi Arabia, 2 Iran and 3 Israel.  Jordan also benefited, but Syria didn’t.

I certainly agree that the list of the major beneficiaries of the U.S. invasion of Iraq does not include the U.S. 
All we got from it were the deaths and the maiming of thousands of young Americans, and billions of dollars wasted.
Which makes you wonder why we did it.
Who has enough of a lobby and a political presence in the U.S. (neo-cons and other dual-citizen trouble-makers) to push and prod 'our' government into such a senseless war?  Who can mobilize a virtually lockstep media propaganda campaign in the U.S. for such a war, repeating night and day the government lies about Saddam's 'weapons of mass destruction'?
Not  our 'democratic allies' the Saudis, even though their wealth is immense. Not the Iranians - that's absurd.  So think again.

Now the usual suspects want to do it all over again.  In Syria.  And in Iran.
American blood and American money in the service of foreign interests.
These will not be 'humanitarian' wars in any sense of the word.

[mcwoodduck]

Good Post Rio.....all isreal has to do is abide by UN resolutions, allow IAEA inspections of Dimona and with some disarmenent of WMD, establish fixed permanent borders; stop absconding with land, property and water of others, ratify a Constitution, stop sending zapper squads around the globe, stop apartheid and genocide policies as OUTLINED BY THEIR LEADERS, and stop being the largest lobbyiest in this country....The US taxpayer needs to stop supporting this pariah stuff...and allow peace to break out. Problem is immediate profits and colonial expansion aren't supported by Peace; nor the goals of the Int'l Globalist; nor the beliefs of the Rapturists that GWOT is instrumental to their occult eschatology
.
..TM7

Listen to the hate and the leftist BS. And these people want to change the world? Muzzy terrorists make as much sense.

.
In your calculus how is asking any state to behave responsiblely, legally and peacefully 'hate'..?? Please explain.
.
..TM7

So how should we treat a country that shells another?  In 1991  Iraq shelled Isreal to hopefully get them to retaliate so he could have other Arab/ Muslium countries intervien on his behalf.
How should we treat a country that builds a huge artillary tube to be able to hit the capital of another country? Iraq Built a huge artillary gun to shoot projectiles into Isreal at the same time they were building the Osarik Nuke Facility.
How should we treat a country that has sworn they will use a nuke on Isreal as soon as they build one?  Iran that is trying to build nukes now.
How should we treat a country that has legal ellections and is a stable democracy in an unstable part of the world?  Isreal has grown and has not been hostile to other faiths in the region.  At the time the Isreali's settled they bought land and the English owned Palistine and allowed the Isreali settlers who set up a government and set up a constitution, to rule them selves, the palistinians did not.  Had they started a country, I am sure the two would have existed side by side in peace for many years.  Instead the Syrians, Egyptian, and others used the Palistinains as pawns and turned good hardwrojing people into homocide bombers.
Golda Meyer said it best.... We will have peace when the palistinains love their children more they they hate us. 

[powderman]

MCCWOODDUCK. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[mcwoodduck]

Thank you.
 

[saddlebum]

You're the man, duck!   

[mcwoodduck]

Good Post Rio.....all isreal has to do is abide by UN resolutions, allow IAEA inspections of Dimona and with some disarmenent of WMD, establish fixed permanent borders; stop absconding with land, property and water of others, ratify a Constitution, stop sending zapper squads around the globe, stop apartheid and genocide policies as OUTLINED BY THEIR LEADERS, and stop being the largest lobbyiest in this country....The US taxpayer needs to stop supporting this pariah stuff...and allow peace to break out. Problem is immediate profits and colonial expansion aren't supported by Peace; nor the goals of the Int'l Globalist; nor the beliefs of the Rapturists that GWOT is instrumental to their occult eschatology
.
..TM7

Listen to the hate and the leftist BS. And these people want to change the world? Muzzy terrorists make as much sense.

.
In your calculus how is asking any state to behave responsiblely, legally and peacefully 'hate'..?? Please explain.
.
..TM7

So how should we treat a country that shells another?  In 1991  Iraq shelled Isreal to hopefully get them to retaliate so he could have other Arab/ Muslium countries intervien on his behalf...Are you referring to a few Scuds that essentially did nothing when Iracq was attacked by isreali satelite USA..?
A few scuds are still an attack.  and an un provoked one at that.
How should we treat a country that builds a huge artillary tube to be able to hit the capital of another country? Iraq Built a huge artillary gun to shoot projectiles into Isreal at the same time they were building the Osarik Nuke Facility. Countries hae a right to arm themselves just like you and me...Immobile Big Gun is an artifact and a hobby gun...wiped out in seconds as proven in WW 1 Still built it and goal was to shell Isreal with either conventional or radioactive artillary shells.
How should we treat a country that has sworn they will use a nuke on Isreal as soon as they build one?  Iran that is trying to build nukes now. False premis...inaccurate and agitpropaganda from media.. Inspectors have not found WMD production...AND by IAEA and Interantional Law...they are permitted to plan or do research on nuclear weapons, just not produce.. Afterall, it israel and vassal state, America, that constantly threaten to wipe out Iran...all options on table bull..Isreal possessing 700WMD, never inspected or signing any weapons treaties, and rumor of a whackadoodle psychotic Samson Option. But I hear they have a very nice HC system..      But it is what the leader of Iran has said.  And you are thinking of Iraq not Iran with the inspectors.  And that was a joke.  the UN inspection rules make it impossible for them to actually inspect and do their job.  Why would I not take the leader of a country at what he says?  You do not become a legitimate country by either lying to the international community or by saying insane things.  And on the subject why is it OK for Iran and Egypt to me a Therocracy that is intollerant to others but it is not OK for Isreal to be a theocracy that is tollerant to others?
How should we treat a country that has legal ellections and is a stable democracy in an unstable part of the world?  Isreal has grown and has not been hostile to other faiths in the region.  At the time the Isreali's settled they bought land and the English owned Palistine and allowed the Isreali settlers who set up a government and set up a constitution, to rule them selves, the palistinians did not.  Had they started a country, I am sure the two would have existed side by side in peace for many years.  Instead the Syrians, Egyptian, and others used the Palistinains as pawns and turned good hardwrojing people into homocide bombers. False,,,not a democracy but is a marxist theoocracy with no established borders or ratified constitution,,,apartheid prevents voting of about half the inhabitants who are not considered 'citizens'. Today's largets concentration camp is Gaza. False again they are a Democracy.
Golda Meyer said it best.... We will have peace when the palistinains love their children more they they hate us.
Golda Meir was a school teacher from Milwauke or Cleveland or some such place...bloodthirsty as all get out knowing isreal does not expand except thru conflict, terrorism,  and victimhood. Your comments sound like a FOXy's Hannity talking points script from the War Party... How does it matter where she was from?  She was a leader of a country when a group started to use Homocide bombers to kill innocent people.  I look at the over all of the situation.  The Jews bought land in the area and when the British left they allowed the organized Jews to start a country that was inclusive and not the Arabs that were exclusive.
There is no chosen people or tribe...this idea was annulled by Chirst...Romans 2:1, 3:22-23.....1 Peter 2:9  Never said there were.  Many groups around the world have claimed to be chosen by god or the Master race or .... What ever else.
Compare Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir's infamous quote:  "There is no such thing as a Palestinian."   still haunting us today!!  And it was not  a country at the time.  The name comes from, it was a provence in the Roman Empire that was later a Provence in the British Empire.  Now that they want to be their own country and are trying why should Isreal help them?  When they were iserali citizens in revolt they were still Isreali citizens.
The apartied you state was not a policy but of safety.  There are many musliums and Arabs that live and work in Isreal.  The state is tollarant to different religons and people of other countries.  They are not tollarant of terrorists and anti semites. 
But Now palastine is their own country. And why should Isreal help them?
Would hte British have helped the IRA if they left Northern Ireland?
BTW....I assume you believe Jonthan Pollard should be released,,,,right?
NO, You spy on the US and you should be shot,  Does not matter your reasoning for treason   MCDUCK

.TM7

[SHOOTALL]

We as a nation call ourselves a super power and policeman of the world. We really should act like it . Tora Bora should have been nuked or some other hit that would render then useless for future attacks . Any other country that pose a threat should meet the same fate. Any country or group that hits us or our intrest should pay in spades. The military picks up where the state dept fails to get positive results . I haven't seen much in the way of positive results lately. Slaps on the wrist didn't work in grade school or in the real world.

[mcwoodduck]

TM7 we should number the paragraphs.
But your comment on my comment about N. Ireland.
What of the British and others that moved to Northern Ireland in good faith?
Should they be kicked out for being imperilaists?
Look the Zionists moved to current day Isreal and like it or not they bought the lands they lived on from Arabs and British.
Are you by chance either Arab or Palastinian?  And no matter what is said you will hate the Isreali's because of some sense of loyality to your heritage no matter the facts?  If we go back to the first records of history in the area and who actually contrilled the area we should hand it to the Greeks as they controled it under Alaxander.  Would you be happy if we gave it to the Turks that owned it for many years?  Would you be happy with the British owning it again?  Or do you think that the people there should have self determination?
 

[mcwoodduck]

I am not the one trying to get rid of people.  you are.
The Brits moving to N. Ireland would be OK because they would assimilate to the Irish  They would not hold a grudge they would just accept the new government and move on.  They would not start a BIA (British Imperial Army) and start fighting the Irish lobbying for a seperate country.
Looking at the PLO it is about money.  Plan and simple, Yasser Arafat died a Multi Millionaire.  Money that could have been spent to build up Palastine, Create infrastructure, Schools, and the like.
But if CBS started to show improving conditions at the camps, started to show a a developing country the money for the PLO would have dried up.  And the SKIM would have stopped.  The PLO used the Palastinians as Pawns to make them selves rich and killed many innocent people in the process.

[mcbammer]

These   evangelicals   sending    millions   of   dollars   to   Israel    might  as   well   be   sending    money   to   the    devil  himself.

[mcwoodduck]

These   evangelicals   sending    millions   of   dollars   to   Israel    might  as   well   be   sending    money   to   the    devil  himself.

And it is their right to do so.
I never said that they could not send money to the PLO I just said that the PLO was not using it as sent and were skimming for theor own gain.

[powderman]

MCCWOODDUCK. Good posts Sir, I agree. POWDERMAN. 

[mcwoodduck]

They can not be concentration camps if they left on their own before the 67 and the 73 wars.
The intention was that the Arabs leave and the armies of Syria, Egypt and I forget who is on the north east that attacked,
To make it easier for those invading armies to kill the Isrealis and then they could move back into the area and take the lands purchased by the Isreali's.
Now what Isreal did with the self imposed camps is a different story.  Cutting them off and not allowing them to return and allowing a terrorist breading ground to set up....
People with Jobs adn families do not tend to want to kill them selves and others.

[mcwoodduck]

Well, what eever you think, I did not see isreali citizens dancing in the streets and handing out candy on 9/11 I did see the palistinians doing that. Had i been press I would have launched a few crumisslesdled into them
Sorry,
Wrote this on my Cell phone while finally getting lunch.
What I wanted to say is the Isreali Citizens were sympathetic, and angry at the attacks on 9/11.
The palastinians were dancing and handing out candy.  When ever there has been a tragady in the world the US has sent aid, the people of the US have sent $ for help with food and medical supplies as well as help to rebuild what ever was damaged.
But the palastinains and the rest of the Arab world rejoiced in the killing of 3,000 Americans.  Watching the news crews in Palastinian areas film the celebrations at the deaths of my freinds and neighbors made me so mad I would have launched a cruise missle into those neighborhoods so they can see the greif we were.  Since that day no mater what I will take the side of Isreal over the Palistinians every time.  Isreal has been an ally and a friend (no matter how badly Obama has treated them or insulted them in the state visits here) 

[coyotejoe]

There will be peace in the Middle East only when they've killed each other off to the last soul, otherwise there never has been and never will be peace. If the Muslims kill off the Jews they'll still be busy killing each other just as they do now and always have done. The only sensible thing we can do is leave them to it.

[powderman]

Well, what eever you think, I did not see isreali citizens dancing in the streets and handing out candy on 9/11 I did see the palistinians doing that. Had i been press I would have launched a few crumisslesdled into them

 
AMEN to that. They love allah so much, help arrange  the meeting. POWDERMAN. 

[Cuts Crooked]

OooH!? I did. They were in Seacaucus, NJ, actually arrested filming the whole event. Their buddies were also arrested driving around in vans with explosives and cash near the Holland Tunnel and on the GW bridge. One of these explosive laden vans was reported detonated by mass media on that day...The vans had pictures of airliners crashing into the WTC on the side panels. The vans came from a NJ moving company owned by dual citizens....the owner, a Mr. Suter, immediately fled to isreal,,,Subsequently, the other arrested personnel were released per order of the FBI and later appeared on isreali TeeVee telling how they were sent o film the event... On th e event Netankookoo said, "This is good, this is very good".
.
Reports of Palestinians celebrating seems to be contrived over blown reporting...most moosilimbs never heard of the WTC or care what it was. Certainly, in Afghanistan 98% of the people never knew it was blown up demolished even.
.
..TM7

Link please?

[mcwoodduck]

Well, what eever you think, I did not see isreali citizens dancing in the streets and handing out candy on 9/11 I did see the palistinians doing that. Had i been press I would have launched a few crumisslesdled into them

 
AMEN to that. They love allah so much, help arrange  the meeting. POWDERMAN. 

.
OooH!? I did. They were in Seacaucus, NJ, actually arrested filming the whole event. Their buddies were also arrested driving around in vans with explosives and cash near the Holland Tunnel and on the GW bridge. One of these explosive laden vans was reported detonated by mass media on that day...The vans had pictures of airliners crashing into the WTC on the side panels. The vans came from a NJ moving company owned by dual citizens....the owner, a Mr. Suter, immediately fled to isreal,,,Subsequently, the other arrested personnel were released per order of the FBI and later appeared on isreali TeeVee telling how they were sent o film the event... On th e event Netankookoo said, "This is good, this is very good".
.
Reports of Palestinians celebrating seems to be contrived over blown reporting...most moosilimbs never heard of the WTC or care what it was. Certainly, in Afghanistan 98% of the people never knew it was blown up demolished even.
.
..TM7

and the crowds celebrating on Al Jazeria TV were part of the Zoinist conspericy? 
So the Zoinists are controling the Muslium / Arab news of Al Jazeria? 
And if the Isreali's are controling the Arab news media they why are they not spinning things like the liberal media does here for their side?
You can not have it both ways.  Either the Zionists are running the world or they are not.  If they are why would they make themselves the victoms and kill and threaten themselves as wel as launch attacks against themselves and us.
 

[ironglow]

Good Post Rio.....all isreal has to do is abide by UN resolutions, allow IAEA inspections of Dimona and with some disarmenent of WMD, establish fixed permanent borders; stop absconding with land, property and water of others, ratify a Constitution, stop sending zapper squads around the globe, stop apartheid and genocide policies as OUTLINED BY THEIR LEADERS, and stop being the largest lobbyiest in this country....The US taxpayer needs to stop supporting this pariah stuff...and allow peace to break out. Problem is immediate profits and colonial expansion aren't supported by Peace; nor the goals of the Int'l Globalist; nor the beliefs of the Rapturists that GWOT is instrumental to their occult eschatology.
.
.
..TM7

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  Sure..and all we should do is "abide by UN resolutions"...
  A) Give up our 2nd amendment rights.
 B) Give much of our land back to the Indians.
 C) Declare our only free state in the middle east.."a terrorist state"
 D) Give Mt Rushmore away.
 E) Give our national parks to the UN.
 F) Let a UN kangaroo court try our troops as "war criminals".
 G) Acknowledge the proposals of the "Human rights" commission of the UN, which include the likes of Libya, Cuba, Saudi Arabia other such suspects.  You know, some of those countries where they stone women to death and commit "honor" killings...
 
    Need we go on with "abiding by UN resolutions" ? 
       The best thing we could possibly do, is to.. "get the US out of the UN...and the UN out of the US !"
 

[SHOOTALL]

The UN offeres America or Israel very little today.

[ironglow]

The UN offeres America or Israel very little today.

.
For us people, yes. But for the TPTB establishment its one of their main control arms. NATO is a UN army actually.
.
.
..TM7

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  You're the one who says we should obey UN resolutions...  Then you claim:
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
"
OooH!? I did. They were in Seacaucus, NJ, actually arrested filming the whole event. Their buddies were also arrested driving around in vans with explosives and cash near the Holland Tunnel and on the GW bridge. One of these explosive laden vans was reported detonated by mass media on that day...The vans had pictures of airliners crashing into the WTC on the side panels. The vans came from a NJ moving company owned by dual citizens....the owner, a Mr. Suter, immediately fled to isreal,,,Subsequently, the other arrested personnel were released per order of the FBI and later appeared on isreali TeeVee telling how they were sent o film the event... On th e event Netankookoo said, "This is good, this is very good".
.
Reports of Palestinians celebrating seems to be contrived over blown reporting...most moosilimbs never heard of the WTC or care what it was. Certainly, in Afghanistan 98% of the people never knew it was blown up demolished even."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
   So as Cuts says,  how about some proof.
 

[Cuts Crooked]

Hmmm? A heavily photoshopped picture of a van with a picture on the side, and a disjointed set of recordings and video. (not even the same van they supposedly looking at later)

Uh huh! I'm going to believe that one fer sure........and apparently so did the government? 

"YouTube" the best source of data anywhere!!!!!!!!

[Cuts Crooked]

How little you know.........

The simplest answer is usually the real one.