Author Topic: Murder under color of law - thug cops to be tried for murdering Kelly Thomas (Read 8319 times)

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 12, 2012, 10:16:37 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on May 12, 2012, 09:16:49 AM

Buncha hypocrits.

Not once did I say that these things never happen, in fact agreed that they do, but most of you act like I deny even the tiny percentage of incidents that do happen... yet I've seen some of you use the very same arguments to bolster what YOU want to be true.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem is that the police aren't used to anyone arguing with them.If they do, the person gets cuffed, beat up and arrested. This gives the policeman the erroneous feeling that he is always right and can not take any criticism.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #31 on:** May 12, 2012, 01:04:02 PM »

Quote from: KIMBER45 on May 12, 2012, 10:16:37 AM

The problem is that the police aren't used to anyone arguing with them.If they do, the person gets cuffed, beat up and arrested. This gives the policeman the erroneous feeling that he is always right and can not take any criticism.

LOL! You bet......MILLIONS OF TIMES A DAY cops beat those who disagree with them.........RIIIIGHHTT!!!

You spend a lot of time on the Cnspiracy Theory Board too, don't you?

Old Syko · « **Reply #32 on:** May 12, 2012, 01:32:08 PM »

Any leo present or past to dare accuse anyone else of hypocrisy is nothing but the pot calling the kettle black. Although most would never stand up to le and tell them as TM7 states to "just wait a minute", there are those of us who hold no such fear. We are the problem for the current forces at large. Not all of us must be sheared in the spring and not all of us will be beaten down. The victim in the OP's story was caught in an undefendable position which was more than unfortunate. The best defense we have as citizens is to educate ourselves on our rights and abilities and avoid being caught in similar situations.

eastbank · « **Reply #33 on:** May 12, 2012, 01:40:12 PM »

no one thinks its any thing near that number, but its alot higher than you think. what makes the news is the deaths and horrible beatings,many people who have a bad interaction with the police are glad to be alive and go on their way, by not having the money to go after the officer or police dept,s the abuse cases go nowhere. one case like kelly thomas,s is one to meny. read any mid size cities news paper of watch the nightly news in the same cities, and you will see the cases that are reported, if there are 30 cases a week per state, it realy adds up over a year. eastbank.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #34 on:** May 12, 2012, 01:52:37 PM »

"one is one to many" How many times you guys gonna try that one?

Where is this "perfect world you seem think you are going to get? If the world were perfect I wouldn't have a job, and YOU wouldn't have anything to whine about on the web.

Try that "One is one too many" on a lot of other things and see how far it gets you.

Truth is, even if you are too blind to see it, the percentages are not in favor of your arguments. You can find individual anecdotes, but none of you can come up with percentages to say I am wrong. Bottom line, we do a job most won't touch because they haven't got what it takes, but they are the first to whine when the rare instance of abuse does come up, and make accuzations that all cops are bad. (go look back through the posts, you'll see that actual claim) That's the epitomy of hypocracy.

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 12, 2012, 02:05:13 PM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on May 12, 2012, 01:52:37 PM

"one is one to many" How many times you guys gonna try that one?

Where is this "perfect world you seem think you are going to get? If the world were perfect I wouldn't have a job, and YOU wouldn't have anything to whine about on the web.

Try that "One is one too many" on a lot of other things and see how far it gets you.

Truth is, even if you are too blind to see it, the percentages are not in favor of your arguments. You can find individual anecdotes, but none of you can come up with percentages to say I am wrong. Bottom line, we do a job most won't touch because they haven't got what it takes, but they are the first to whine when the rare instance of abuse does come up, and make accuzations that all cops are bad. (go look back through the posts, you'll see that actual claim) That's the epitomy of hypocracy.

Cuts - would you turn in your partner if he did something wrong ?

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 12, 2012, 02:33:31 PM »

Quote from: KIMBER45 on May 12, 2012, 02:05:13 PM

Cuts - would you turn in your partner if he did something wrong ?

of course he would, probably, assuming he's a cop. I expect he's a good one, even if his view is affected by his profession. I give extra credit to cops who hunt.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #37 on:** May 12, 2012, 03:55:25 PM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on May 12, 2012, 01:52:37 PM

"one is one to many" How many times you guys gonna try that one?

Where is this "perfect world you seem think you are going to get? If the world were perfect I wouldn't have a job, and YOU wouldn't have anything to whine about on the web.

Try that "One is one too many" on a lot of other things and see how far it gets you.

Truth is, even if you are too blind to see it, the percentages are not in favor of your arguments. You can find individual anecdotes, but none of you can come up with percentages to say I am wrong. Bottom line, we do a job most won't touch because they haven't got what it takes, but they are the first to whine when the rare instance of abuse does come up, and make accuzations that all cops are bad. (go look back through the posts, you'll see that actual claim) That's the epitomy of hypocracy.

Cops are people! Good people, Bad people! Good cops, and bad cops.
I think the vast majority are good, with many bad apples in the bunch that give the others a bad name. The press isn't going to fill the airways with the good things cop's do day to day, but they look for stories like this one, because it sells!

I don't think these cases are rare, although they are certainly not the norm. I have a Brother, Brother-in law who are retired Leo's and two nephews who are currently working as Leo's.So I do see this from both sides!The two nephews are working in one of the most violent small cities in the nation. (Search youtube) for "Crime Bluff" Pine Bluff, Ar.They deal on a regular basis with murder, and other violent crimes.It does effect their attitude! I see it. Not so sure it wouldn't do the same thing to me.I'm not trying to make excuses for these criminals in uniform that killed this poor homeless man.If they are found guilty, they should throw the book at them.

These people took the oath to protect and serve the public.............Not Maim and kill them.
I think the big problem with the police departments today is at the administration level.
They come to the defense of the officers before the public they serve.I have seen first hand here in this small town I live in, the preference given the officers over the public.The city has had to pay several lawsuits recently because of police brutality related charges.The patrol officer is only going to do the job the way his bosses allow.Most people who apply for law enforcement jobs are alpha males.I think that's good! We don't need a bunch of wimpy, shoot first types.

That Alpha needs someone with a strong hand and leash controlling them. Not standing behind them when they get out of control.I think Sheriff's overall do a much better job at doing this than Police Chief's.Most of these cases we see on TV are City Cops, not State or County.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #38 on:** May 12, 2012, 06:00:36 PM »

Quote from: KIMBER45 on May 12, 2012, 02:05:13 PM

Cuts - would you turn in your partner if he did something wrong ?

I have, and assisted in the prosecution. It wasn't pleasant, but it had to be done.

eastbank · « **Reply #39 on:** May 12, 2012, 10:59:30 PM »

you seem to whine about how hard you have it being a leo, i think your right. its hard to control your self so you don,t beat or kill a person in a fit of rage because they don,t act like your god and knell down in front of you and roll over a few times when you talk. maybe you need a career change,a movie house usher would be good or a meals on wheels driver for the old people. your more likly to be killed working on a farm than eating donuts driving around looking some one to hassle. eastbank.

ironglow · « **Reply #40 on:** May 12, 2012, 11:12:23 PM »

As with any other profession, doctor, surveyor or technician, you will find a "bad egg" now and then. Let the legal system work and if the guy is guilty, I doubt he will get away with it.
Just as often, it is the LEO that gets railroaded..especially in the "border wars". It was not long ago when a couple border cops were mistreated for shooting a drug smuggler, who tried to kill them.. in the butt ! Another, where apparently the libs expected a bicycle cop to stand and be pelted to death with stones, rather than to fight back.
Then too, as we often find in the military and other occupations also.. "stuff" slides downhill !
And accomplishment is often sucked up hill.

ironglow · « **Reply #41 on:** May 12, 2012, 11:14:17 PM »

delete

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #42 on:** May 12, 2012, 11:55:42 PM »

Quote from: eastbank on May 12, 2012, 10:59:30 PM

you seem to whine about how hard you have it being a leo, i think your right. its hard to control your self so you don,t beat or kill a person in a fit of rage because they don,t act like your god and knell down in front of you and roll over a few times when you talk. maybe you need a career change,a movie house usher would be good or a meals on wheels driver for the old people. your more likly to be killed working on a farm than eating donuts driving around looking some one to hassle. eastbank.

Show me where I've complained about "how hard it is". Come on, you can do it, step right up there and show me.

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 13, 2012, 01:29:31 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on May 12, 2012, 06:00:36 PM

Quote from: KIMBER45 on May 12, 2012, 02:05:13 PM
Cuts - would you turn in your partner if he did something wrong ?

I have, and assisted in the prosecution. It wasn't pleasant, but it had to be done.

Good for you. Thanks for keeping our LEO honest.

ironglow · « **Reply #44 on:** May 13, 2012, 01:48:39 AM »

From Eastbank;
" your more likly to be killed working on a farm than eating donuts driving around looking some one to hassle. eastbank."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Now, That's a fair minded, even handed, unbiased statement...

Here, many are admitting that just as in any profession, you can find bad apples..fair statement ? Although it could happen, most of us will have no confrontation with a "brutal cop"...unless we have frequent "negative conferences" with them.
I am sure there will be many stories of "police brutality" among the Wall st Occupunks ! Curiously, the Tea Party gatherings had little if any problem with the local police..but then, the Tea Parties are not noted for putting up shanty towns, smoking and selling dope, defecating on police cars, rape, murder or other mayhem.
Why no problems with the Tea Party, while continuous problems with the Occupunks? There is an old saying.. "Rub a galled horse..and he'll kick". Perhaps Ocupunks are too quick to rub !

ironglow · « **Reply #45 on:** May 13, 2012, 02:05:12 AM »

Sure, I see LEOs sitting around, eating doughnuts..but I don't know what they were doing 20 minutes previously or but what they may be "heavily involved" 20 minutes later.
Sure, same as with the military these people are sworn to defend..even while other are running for their lives. A typical career (military or police) may be many weeks of pure boredom...punctuated with a few minutes of sheer terror. Perhaps you have a short memory, so I will try to help you out..
Here is your average patrolman at work..soon helped by SWAT team. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-cMIVNntHs
How about the pure "guts" of this female officer? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=_tWdHHH-TV8&NR=1

Notice how cooly Stephanie Bellis fires and reloads.. Due to circumstances, that's her cruiser with a bad guy behind it firing an AK47. Just to think ..a few moments previously, she was just another "doughnut eating cop"..cruising...
Here's Stephanie..a doughnut eater: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wrbphotography/4857428600/
Here's Stephanie's story: http://www.lawofficer.com/article/magazine-feature/bank-robber-opens-fire

There are 2 sides to nearly every complaint.

Old Syko · « **Reply #46 on:** May 13, 2012, 02:38:12 AM »

IG sounds like you've been sold on the premise that military and le are covered by the same cloth when in fact for the good of us all this cannot be. This is what they want you to believe as a premise to the formation of a police state. Military are sworn to defend the constitution and le are not, which should be recognized as a significant difference.

eastbank · « **Reply #47 on:** May 13, 2012, 08:01:18 AM »

google dayton ohio police arrest,jesse kersey, there were 22 police officers involved in this example of good police work. eastbank. the police don,t carry guns to protect you, only to protect themselfs. they want to go home at night, they don,t give a shi* if you do most of the time. the police don,t have to protect you as a indevigle only as the general public. eastbank.

lakota · « **Reply #48 on:** May 13, 2012, 08:15:07 AM »

Beating someone to death is unacceptable. If you need to use physical force to subdue someone at some point that person is subdued and to continue beating at that point is wrong. I seriously doubt that beating someone to within an inch of thier life is required. Why didnt one of them use a tazer that they are so fond of if this guy was so out of control? I hope the "officers" involved get whats coming to them.

georgeinohio · « **Reply #49 on:** May 13, 2012, 08:44:44 AM »

like a lot of others i have a pretty poor view of most law enforcement types .
it stems from personal experiance with law enforcement .. then i see threads like this on multiple forums and these incidences dont help my personal views very much , but what realy feeds my negativity is guys like cuts crooked .

i have no way of knowing if he is a good cop bad cop or what ever ,.. but after reading his responses i get a impression that i most likely would not like his on the job attitude .

the reason i say this is i would think that someone used to dealing with us the general public on a daily basis would understand that sometimes its best to just shut up and pick your battles .. feeding the fire is never a good thing and shows either a lack of maturity or a compulsion to always be right no matter what ...

eastbank · « **Reply #50 on:** May 13, 2012, 08:53:50 AM »

yes there are two sides to every complaint, but to get most of the so called perps side out may cost money and the press to poke around alot of the time,unless the actions of the police are so bad a blind man could see the wrong done. while the police have a system set up to defend them at every turn and if they do lose we the tax payer are on the hook for the damages awarded. what realy gets me boiling mad was a statment by the police that the medical help kerry thomas got was what killed him, how in the hell does that make you trust your police officers. we are told there are good officers(and there are,we just can,t tell the bad from the good) as if some how that makes it kinda ok,bull shi*. the bad have to go the first time and not work in the police field again, we need a magen,s list for police officers that can be checked by any town hiring future police officers, it works for teachers,ministers and any one working with children. eastbank.

ironglow · « **Reply #51 on:** May 13, 2012, 09:39:21 AM »

Here, take another look at one of those useless ones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=_tWdHHH-TV8&NR=1

eastbank · « **Reply #52 on:** May 13, 2012, 10:06:39 AM »

this what the other side will do,try to show good police officers doing their duty and then try to say( SEE ANOTHER USELESS OFFICER AT WORK), she is the type of officer i will stand behind untill the end, its the other type i have trouble with, the ones who should never have been police officers in the first place. how dare you compare that brave officer along with other good officers who take their job to heart to the pos,s who degrade the office they hold by their actions. eastbank.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #53 on:** May 13, 2012, 10:07:33 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on May 13, 2012, 06:23:48 AM

IG is fogging up and diverting the discussion for his team again.
~~~~~~~~~~
Cuts....what you did earlier on in this discussion is deny that the police brutality issue has gotten worse-
..TM7

Falsehood...never made that claim, just claimed that the percentages are tiny. Get your facts straight about who said what.

And you have yet to give us anything proving that I am wrong on the percentages. Remember, there are millions of LE interactions with people.........

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #54 on:** May 13, 2012, 11:06:38 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on May 13, 2012, 10:07:33 AM

Quote from: TM7 on May 13, 2012, 06:23:48 AM
IG is fogging up and diverting the discussion for his team again.
~~~~~~~~~~
Cuts....what you did earlier on in this discussion is deny that the police brutality issue has gotten worse-
..TM7
Falsehood...never made that claim, just claimed that the percentages are tiny. Get your facts straight about who said what.

And you have yet to give us anything proving that I am wrong on the percentages. Remember, there are millions of LE interactions with people.........

Earlier you said LEO's had to go through some type of phycological screening. Was it every year or just to get the job?

ironglow · « **Reply #55 on:** May 13, 2012, 01:16:39 PM »

Quote from: eastbank on May 13, 2012, 10:06:39 AM

this what the other side will do,try to show good police officers doing their duty and then try to say( SEE ANOTHER USELESS OFFICER AT WORK), she is the type of officer i will stand behind untill the end, its the other type i have trouble with, the ones who should never have been police officers in the first place. how dare you compare that brave officer along with other good officers who take their job to heart to the pos,s who degrade the office they hold by their actions. eastbank.

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I never said ALL officers are excellent, but don't try to smear all officers because you have had a bad experience with one.
On the other hand, if you have had bad experiences with several..perhaps you should be a bit more circumspect. I once knew a woman who claimed she had bad neighbors; she said they were all bums, even though they got on well with one another. So the following year she moved to a nice neighborhood. Guess what..all her new neighbors were bad too, even though they got along with each other quite well, they fought with her.
Do you suppose she should take a look closer to home ?

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #56 on:** May 13, 2012, 01:19:56 PM »

Quote from: KIMBER45 on May 13, 2012, 11:06:38 AM

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on May 13, 2012, 10:07:33 AM
Earlier you said LEO's had to go through some type of phycological screening. Was it every year or just to get the job?

Don't know about every department. Mine requires it yearly as part of our annual physical and after any "tramatic event", such as duty or non duty related shooting. Can also be required after things like "death in family" or after recovery from serious illness.

However, the first department I worked for, years ago, only required it as part of prehire screening.

ironglow · « **Reply #57 on:** May 13, 2012, 01:28:56 PM »

Too bad the LEO's repeat "customers" don't go through a yearly psych test also...

Admittedly, I don't live in or near a city..so my experiences are basically sheriffs and state troops. The state troopers office is about 1.5 miles from my house..and our county has only 1 car for each quarter of the county for night duty, outside the Indian reservations, that is. I have at least a nodding acquaintance with all and better with some..all good folks. ...But then, I have never had them come to my house on serious business either.

eastbank · « **Reply #58 on:** May 13, 2012, 02:04:44 PM »

ironglow,did you read my post, or didn,t you understand what was posted? please read it again and tell me where i attacted all officers, i only attacted the ones who bring shame on all the others. if you don,t think what the police did to kelly thomas or how they handled the jesse kersey case was not wrong, then there is no hope for you. close to 30 officers were involved to these cases alone. eastbank

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #59 on:** May 13, 2012, 03:04:29 PM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on May 13, 2012, 01:19:56 PM

Quote from: KIMBER45 on May 13, 2012, 11:06:38 AM
Quote from: Cuts Crooked on May 13, 2012, 10:07:33 AM
Earlier you said LEO's had to go through some type of phycological screening. Was it every year or just to get the job?

Don't know about every department. Mine requires it yearly as part of our annual physical and after any "tramatic event", such as duty or non duty related shooting. Can also be required after things like "death in family" or after recovery from serious illness.

However, the first department I worked for, years ago, only required it as part of prehire screening.

This is no trick question- just wondering. What would you consider the reason why some LEO cross the line and resort to physical violence when it isn't necessary ? Would you say the inappropriate acts are committed by younger, older or across the board as far as age goes ?