Buying a new cannon barrel from HMR and have questions about powder and wadding.

[justeric]

 HMR is building me an 1841, golf ball cannon barrel. The inside will be 14” with a 1” x 3” powder chamber. The outside length will be 21”. I plan to use the barrel mostly without a projectile. I just want to make a thunderous boom with a lot of smoke.
 
I’m looking for suggestions on wadding and Black Powder.
 
Wadding? What should I use for wadding and how tight should I pack it?
 
Powder? I see there is 1FG, Cannon and 1FA powder options for cannons. The 1FA (for fireworks) looks a good bit less expensive. Which cannon powder should I given the internal dimensions of my barrel and the fact that I’m looking for a good Kaaaboom using wadding?
 
The recommended charge for the cannon is 450 grains. Should I increase the amount of powder if I don’t load a projectile to get the same report?
 
Thanks,
Eric

[IvarForkbeard]

A good report is as much compression as powder charge. I know Ed's work and though you MIGHT be able to get 450 grains of Fg in a powder charge, I find that above about 200 grains you are just blowing powder out the barrel. You are going to want to learn t o make aluminum foil charges, lots of tutorials on here about how.
As for wadding, there are many options, but DON'T use wet paper towels....I find bread or flower totillas works nicely, but you still need to watch the down range area as a wad of compacted bread is still a projectile.

[Double D]

No wadding and stick with Fg or Cannon.  You won't be able to get compression in the manner of a black powder cartridge case.

Build a cartridge and load that in the chamber.  Her is a post on How to Make a Cartridge.   The cartridges works well for a blank round if you have to shoot blanks.  A simple tight fitting single layer of cardboard is all you need for a wad if loading lose powder.   

Do not use wads of grass, bread or anyone other solid material unless you treat them like any other projectile.  I am aware of at least one broken window  from grass cuttings---covered by homewowners insurance, by the way.

If you build a cartridge you don't need a wad.

The recommended maximum charge for your one inch chamber is  190 grains of Fg.

[flagman1776]

 
 

[IvarForkbeard]

And if none of these answers are what you are looking for, ask Ed what he recommends for his cannon.

[flagman1776]

Another way of looking at it...  the charge must fit in the chamber.  Make a empty foil cartridge &  see what fits, leaving room to twist it closed.

[brokenpole]

And if none of these answers are what you are looking for, ask Ed what he recommends for his cannon.

Now there is a novel idea. Definitely go to the source. Ed will send you some instructions. Follow those and you should have no problem. 
Oh...one last thing...SMOKE AND FIRE PICS/VIDS!!

[justeric]

A good report is as much compression as powder charge. I know Ed's work and though you MIGHT be able to get 450 grains of Fg in a powder charge, I find that above about 200 grains you are just blowing powder out the barrel. You are going to want to learn t o make aluminum foil charges, lots of tutorials on here about how.
As for wadding, there are many options, but DON'T use wet paper towels....I find bread or flower totillas works nicely, but you still need to watch the down range area as a wad of compacted bread is still a projectile.

  I will start with 200 grains of Fg BP or Cannon Powder and work my way up. How do you judge when your just blowing powder out the barrel? I will make aluminum foil and plastic bag cartridges as you suggested.
 
Do you make a ball out of the bread and then pack it in tightly for wadding?  How many slices? Same question for the flour tortillas?
 
Thanks for your help!
Eric

[justeric]

No wadding and stick with Fg or Cannon.  You won't be able to get compression in the manner of a black powder cartridge case.

Build a cartridge and load that in the chamber.  Her is a post on How to Make a Cartridge.   The cartridges works well for a blank round if you have to shoot blanks.  A simple tight fitting single layer of cardboard is all you need for a wad if loading lose powder.   

Do not use wads of grass, bread or anyone other solid material unless you treat them like any other projectile.  I am aware of at least one broken window  from grass cuttings---covered by homewowners insurance, by the way.

If you build a cartridge you don't need a wad.

The recommended maximum charge for your one inch chamber is  190 grains of Fg.

  Thanks for your helpful responses!
 
I have some follow up questions. You stated, "You won't be able to get compression in the manner of a black powder cartridge case".  Are you saying that I will not be able to get enough compression to get a big boom like when shooting a golf ball?
 
Grass clippings breaking a window.  I assume the window broke due to the grass clippings hitting the window instead of the concussion created by the additional compression? How far down range will bread be propelled?
 
You recommended 190 grains as a max for a 1" chamber. Does the max charge only consider the chamber diameter or does it take the bore into consideration. The bore will be 1.76 x 14" ( I think that is golf ball size).
 
Thanks again!
Eric   
 
 
 
 
 


 
 

[flagman1776]

 

[buzz36]

for me i jsut make a foil packet that is my chamber size pack it with 200+ grains and you just put it in  and ramm it tight prick and fire and i can ratle lots of windows
unless your going to make up  more cartitages then you going to use  i would not suggest the pastic baggy jsut made a real mess from what i have learned
 

[justeric]

I agree...  I use cannon grade Goex per my signature in a foil cartridge.  My cartridge technique is a little different but ends up to with a similar result.  My post on the technique:  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,236898.msg1099340448.html#msg1099340448  I do find a bit of wadding gives a better report.  I only fire over open grass or water.  I use a small handful of seaweed or lawn clippings in a loose ball of bore diameter, which I dip in the water bucket & squeeze out.  I never fire towards any person or structure. 
There are specific cautions about paper as wadding.  Dry paper is a fire hazzard & is unwelcome by property owners because of the mess left behind.  I have heard that wet paper can stick to the bore & cause a pressure spike.   
You'll need a full set of cannon tools & a touchhole pick to puncture the cartridge.

  Thanks for your helpful responses! I have some follow up questions.
 
Is cannon grade Goex different than FG BP?  Which do you think would be better in a cannon that has a 1" x 3" powder chamber and a 14" x 1.76 inch bore?  I'm not sure what the difference is between Cannon powder and FG but I'll bet one would create the compression better in a small cannon.
 
Great link on how to create cartridges!
 
How tightly do you pack the wadding? Just push it until it stops or compress it when it stops?
 
Thanks,
Eric

[justeric]

And if none of these answers are what you are looking for, ask Ed what he recommends for his cannon.

  Ed recommends 450 grains of FG and either bread or flour tortillas for wadding. I trust Ed but thought I would get a consensus. No harm it getting as much information as you can before lighting a fuse.   
 
Thanks,
Eric

[justeric]

And if none of these answers are what you are looking for, ask Ed what he recommends for his cannon.

Now there is a novel idea. Definitely go to the source. Ed will send you some instructions. Follow those and you should have no problem. 
Oh...one last thing...SMOKE AND FIRE PICS/VIDS!!

SMOKE AND FIRE PICS/VIDS will be comming!  Ed just started so I'm looking at 2 to 4 weeks for barrel.  I hope to have something up in 3 to 5 weeks. 

[Double D]

  Thanks for your helpful responses!
 
I have some follow up questions. You stated, "You won't be able to get compression in the manner of a black powder cartridge case".  Are you saying that I will not be able to get enough compression to get a big boom like when shooting a golf ball?

I am saying you will not get any compression.  Compression is not what makes a louder boom.
 

Grass clippings breaking a window.  I assume the window broke due to the grass clippings hitting the window instead of the concussion created by the additional compression? How far down range will bread be propelled?
 

Get this compression thing out of your mind, there ain't no compression.  The grass was loaded lose and went clear across the street in one homogeneous mass.    Bread and tortillas are for eating.  If you stick them in a barrel and shot them treat them as projectiles.    Just use a card wad.  If you want a gut thumping, window rattling car alarm tripping boom, don't expect to do with a small gun.  Get a thunder mug.   

You recommended 190 grains as a max for a 1" chamber. Does the max charge only consider the chamber diameter or does it take the bore into consideration. The bore will be 1.76 x 14" ( I think that is golf ball size).
 
Thanks again!
Eric

If you will spend some time looking at the stickies at the top of the board you will find a post about safe load recommendations including a chart that list the loads for small bore cannons under 2 inch.  The chart is posted by permission Matt Switlik and ofrm his book the More Complete Cannoneer. 

You will find that load I recommended on that chart.

[justeric]

Thanks again Double D.

[GGaskill]

The differences between the various grades of small arms black powder (Cannon, Fg through FFFFg) are in size of granulation; the chemistry is the same.  The finer grades are easier to ignite (which is why FFFFg is used in flintlock pans.)  Generally speaking, the grades burn fast to slow from FFFFg to Cannon. 

For me, 1" bore is about the changeover point from Fg to Cannon.  Either one is OK for a 1" bore/chamber but you will likely get a little less pressure with the Cannon grade.

[Doc Brown.]

I use aluminum foil for wadding. Gets pretty tight pack.

[Double D]

For smaller cannons just use standard small arms and felt wads.

In larger guns say over .75 make a foil cartridge and you don't need a wad.

Remember even wads become projectiles. Plan for it

Do not pack in wads, it raises pressure unnecessarily  and the compacted material becomes a projectile.