Author Topic: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence  (Read 6482 times)

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Offline gstewart44

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Local tv and radio here covered a lot of the evidence released today.   Among the findings -
1)GZ had as we know a broken nose, and two lacerations to the back of the head but also a cut on his nose and lip, multiple contusions about his face,  and a low back injury......all consistent with being knocked to the ground, then someone jumping on top of him, and giving him a beating and a head smashing.
 
2) TM was shot by a single 9mm bullet that fragmented somewhat,  and did not exit.   Distance of entry from weapon was between 1 and 18 inches and bullet coursed in an upward angle directly through the heart.   
 
3) TM's toxicology report was POSITIVE for ACTIVE MARIJUANA at the time of the shooting.
 
4) ALL of the witnesses that gave statements to what they saw corroborates GZ's account EXCEPT the account given by TM's girlfriend who claims she was on the phone with him up to the altercation.
 
5) GZ's CCW piece is/was a Keltec .....couldn't exactly make it out from the quick photo but sure looks close to a PF9
 
I'll bet TM's family brings a lawsuit against George Kelgren, owner of Keltec,  just to try and wreck the gunmaker financially.   
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Offline powderman

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 02:03:17 PM »
GSTEWART44. Thanks for the report. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
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Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 03:40:39 PM »
They can argue all they want, IT WAS A CLEAN SHOOT.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 04:46:01 PM »
They can argue all they want, IT WAS A CLEAN SHOOT.
Don't know that with absolute certainty, but yeah, I think so, or very close to it (not to say Z couldn't/shouldn't have done things differently). The trial is going to turn into, could Z have avoided the whole confrontation, with the state wanting THAT question in the minds of jurors... rather than the question of is it 2nd Degree Murder.  They'll try to make it... was it avoidable, and have jury think that if it was, if Z could have avoided it... then he's a murderer.
 
IF, that is, Z goes to trial. They're going to exert enormous pressure to cop a plea, and when facing possiblity of years in prison, it's hard to resist. Been there.
 
I utterly detest prosecutors, generally. Today I watched the speech by Angela Corey when she announced charges... absolute BS, disingenous crap.
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2012, 01:35:43 AM »
YT
I disagree.
The trial will focus on Z beginning the confrontation.
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2012, 01:58:54 AM »
YT
I disagree.
The trial will focus on Z beginning the confrontation.
Blessings
Agreed!The prosecution wants to find a way to blame the entire thing on Z, otherwise they really have no case at all.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2012, 02:17:40 AM »
  I guess these days, you are "guilty" until YOU prove your innocence!
 
  DM

Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2012, 02:32:14 AM »
Here is a link to our local station.    When you go there click on the tab for Trayvon Martin.    It has links to all the evidence released.     this station has presented the most unbiased view of the story in my opinion.   
http://www.wftv.com/
 
 
 
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Offline Tommyt

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2012, 02:42:44 AM »
Quote
PD/prosecutors said openly Z could have avoided the confrontation
This maybe so but who are the PD to tell him he was wrong in watching or following when he was on a
neighborhood watch I feel once again the PD feels they and only they can do things correct
If he was a on duty or off duty cop? the shot would have been ??

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2012, 02:59:16 AM »
Not so fast here folks. The marijuana thing is irrelevant. ABC news said that only trace amounts were found in his system. Even if he had been actively high that probably would have reduced the chance of Martin being violent. Second, it still has not been determined, at least to me, who was "standing their ground" in the legal sense. If it is shown that Zimmerman had the opportunity to avoid a direct confrontation with Martin it may turn that Martin was "standing his ground".
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 03:03:34 AM »
things get curiouser and curiouser...... ???
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 03:05:48 AM »
I got that the shot was thru the heart and from an intermediate distance, whatever intermediate distance means. Z was on anti-anxiety drugs, Respirel and another. In my state that would preclude one from CC I believe or even rifle purchases.. ..so the defense may fall back on a mental incompetence defense which is also supported by his rap sheet..  Meanwhile, PD/prosecutors said openly Z could have avoided the confrontation...
.
.TM7
a forensic cop and an attorney were on the local station last night and said "intermediate" means 1" to 18" away.   In other words close enough to have powder burns. 
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 04:33:19 AM »
I got that the shot was thru the heart and from an intermediate distance, whatever intermediate distance means. Z was on anti-anxiety drugs, Respirel and another. In my state that would preclude one from CC I believe or even rifle purchases.. ..so the defense may fall back on a mental incompetence defense which is also supported by his rap sheet..  Meanwhile, PD/prosecutors said openly Z could have avoided the confrontation...
.
.TM7
a forensic cop and an attorney were on the local station last night and said "intermediate" means 1" to 18" away.   In other words close enough to have powder burns.
.Heck!...then I wonder what a close distance shot is...?
.
..TM7
I was thinking the same thing.....they explained it as differing between "contact" wound which is the muzzle directly against the skin,  then "intermediate" from 1-18 inches.    Interstingly ABC interviewed Mark Furman of LAPD/OJ Simpson notoriety, and he said that "intermediate" to him meant "up to arms length" or roughly up to 36".       The forensics guys on the scene did document powder burns on TMs hoodie, which common sense tells us it is close proximity. 
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline Old Fart

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 04:35:56 AM »
My only knowledge on "Stand Your Ground" laws has to do with where I live.
Does anyone has info or a link to the local law?
 
Around here he would probably never be charged from what I've seen.
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2012, 04:50:31 AM »
My only knowledge on "Stand Your Ground" laws has to do with where I live.
Does anyone has info or a link to the local law?
 
Around here he would probably never be charged from what I've seen.
  Florida 2011 Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE[22]
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
  (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013. 776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
  (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred. (2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
  (a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or (b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or (c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer. (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(5) As used in this section, the term:
  (a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night. (b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest. (c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property. 776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
  (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2012, 05:06:03 AM »
the 911 dispatcher told "Z" that he shouldn't follow martin, and he said "ok".
he probably turned to go to his SUV and was attacked from behind by "no_limit_nigga".
that was the tweet name that martin went by.  nice guy ::)
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2012, 05:32:04 AM »
the 911 dispatcher told "Z" that he shouldn't follow martin, and he said "ok".
he probably turned to go to his SUV and was attacked from behind by "no_limit_nigga".
that was the tweet name that martin went by.  nice guy ::)
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
   I suppose he thought he had "no limit"..but a 9mm told him differently..
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2012, 05:56:05 AM »
Hmmm? SO what do you suppose the difference b'tween "stand your ground" and "laying on the ground getting the crap beat out of you"? :-\
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2012, 05:56:19 AM »
a lot of the outcome will probably be determined upon the exact time that the dispatcher told GZ he didn't need to follow and Z replied OK.     somewhere in the next minute TM was dead.    If Z said Ok and was walking back to his truck then  he was retreating BEFORE any confrontation and TM would have been the one to initiate the contact.   IMHO
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2012, 06:00:37 AM »
Do you think this will turn out to be another case where a person found to be not guilty is convicted by the media before the trial even started?

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2012, 06:16:46 AM »
Quote from Conan The Librarian:
"Do you think this will turn out to be another case where a person found to be not guilty is convicted by the media before the trial even started?"


Many here have already convicted Martin.
GuzziJohn

Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2012, 06:16:54 AM »
very likely - especially NBC for "selectively editing the 911 tapes - that started the whole racial stuff and then continued to escalate it .     
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2012, 06:18:43 AM »
YT
I disagree.
The trial will focus on Z beginning the confrontation.
Blessings
that's what I meant - rather than proving the 'depraved mind' bit about 2nd degree murder, they're going to say that the whole thing was Z's fault, and absolutely dodge the point of who attacked whom. It'll be... 'if Z did this or that or didn't do this or that, it wouldn't have happened!' and try very hard to avoid acknowledging that Z was assaulted by Trayvon.
 
But I only know what I read in the intertoobs. It does get interestinger and interestinger. It's grim all around. But I'll tell you... I bought the initial story... and that one has turned out to be BS, unless Z cut his own scalp and whopped his own head to fabricate impression he was attacked.
 
we'll see, if there's an actual trial
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2012, 06:33:34 AM »
Martin was wrong to go into a gated community late at night, that already had break ins.  He was either up to no good, or very stupid.  If Zimmerman did say OK and was going back to his vehicle, then he was attacked.  His word only against what evidence they have.  You have to have "BEYOND reasonable doubt" to get convicted.  There are a lot of doubts, so how can he be convicted?

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2012, 06:48:58 AM »
Quote from Dixie Dude:
"Martin was wrong to go into a gated community late at night, that already had break ins.  He was either up to no good, or very stupid."


His uncle lived in that gated community and he had been at his uncle's house at other times. He does not have the right to see his uncle?
GuzziJohn

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2012, 06:55:18 AM »
I didn't know that.  If he was confronted by Zimmerman, why didn't he just say he was going to his uncles house at such and such address?  Or leaving his uncles house to go somewhere else?  I don't think Zimmerman would have called 911 if he didn't suspect something?  If I was a kid and was walking late at night, I would have answered someone's question as to what I was up to. 

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2012, 08:00:31 AM »
I didn't know that.  If he was confronted by Zimmerman, why didn't he just say he was going to his uncles house at such and such address?  Or leaving his uncles house to go somewhere else?  I don't think Zimmerman would have called 911 if he didn't suspect something?  If I was a kid and was walking late at night, I would have answered someone's question as to what I was up to.
that is something to be asked at trial, except that tray-von is dead & unable to answer. Still, it can be asked.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2012, 08:37:11 AM »
Quote from Dixie Dude:
"Martin was wrong to go into a gated community late at night, that already had break ins.  He was either up to no good, or very stupid."


His uncle lived in that gated community and he had been at his uncle's house at other times. He does not have the right to see his uncle?
GuzziJohn

Maybe I missed something but I thought he was staying with his father at the home of father's girlfriend.
Anyhow the newly released evidence seems to suport Zimmerman's account just as the cops have said all along.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline jimster

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2012, 09:12:02 AM »
Personally I think the case will either be thrown out by the judge, or be acquitted.  The murder charge is a little overboard, the state investigator is on record saying he does not know anything,  I think there is a witness they might be hiding to protect him, probably cause he saw the kid on top of Zimmerman, but even if they don't, there are no witnesses....then you have the State law to contend with, which is what it boils down to anyways.  I think the cops already had all the the info, and probably more, and are not too happy about an outside prosecutor stepping in and saying they did it wrong.  They might just have already done it right based on what they knew, and nobody else knows anything more, including me, I don't know squat, but a murder charge is going to be damn hard to prove, and they have to prove it.
So I figure after he gets off, there will be some riots.....the prosecutor that stepped in and took the case away, well all she has to do is step back and say, hey, I did my job, the Florida law is the problem....she's no dummy, she's covered.  The local police will say, "told ya" we had it right. Not to mention NBC got caught doctoring up the 911 calls....I'm now hearing people got fired over that one.
Then there will probably be a few more shootings during the riots... :o 
If I'm wrong on this, won't be the first time.  But it sure looks plain to me that murder needs evidence, and they don't have any. Speculation won't do it.  Zimmerman has more evidence than the other side, plus state law...the other side just has lots of emotions.  That probably won't fly in court. 
 

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2012, 09:19:36 AM »
Sounds like another way of saying "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit". Remember that line?