Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence

[r29l20]

I get sick of it also , but that does not give me the right to kill someone .

 
 
 
No, but if that someone is on top of you pounding your head into the pavement, then you do have that right.

+1

[Graybeard]

TM7 you sure must be getting your info from a different source than any I've seen. You should really fine a source other than conspiracy theory and muzlim sites to read.

Here is a link to the story with the overhead views and time line.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

And here is the link to the thread on it here at GBO:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,255999.0.html

[r29l20]

Profiled him, really, the way he looked, I don't think he was on his way to church. If it walks like a thug, and dresses like a thug. And again HE'S NOT A KID.

[r29l20]

.
As for black on white crime idea, this was not black on white crime or white on black crime. It was an hispanic and black event. As for black on white crime in my area..not much because there's no blacks around; more latinos and they do do crime.
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..TM7
 Latinos for you blacks for me, why are you not getting it ? We also have a mexican problem here as well.

[finisher]

.
As for black on white crime idea, this was not black on white crime or white on black crime. It was an hispanic and black event. As for black on white crime in my area..not much because there's no blacks around; more latinos and they do do crime.
.
..TM7
 Latinos for you blacks for me, why are you not getting it ? We also have a mexican problem here as well.

**********
Don't feel too bad. The natives have been having one hell of a "European" problem for some time now

[SHOOTALL]

I get sick of it also , but that does not give me the right to kill someone .

 
 
 
No, but if that someone is on top of you pounding your head into the pavement, then you do have that right.

of course you do but does color make a difference ? no it does not nor should sex or age , if you fear for your life nothing else matters . Unless you fear the color more that the threat .

[r29l20]

.
As for black on white crime idea, this was not black on white crime or white on black crime. It was an hispanic and black event. As for black on white crime in my area..not much because there's no blacks around; more latinos and they do do crime.
.
..TM7
 Latinos for you blacks for me, why are you not getting it ? We also have a mexican problem here as well.

**********
Don't feel too bad. The natives have been having one hell of a "European" problem for some time now

Good one. It wouldn't be funny but it's true.

[SHOOTALL]

So did Z cause Martin to attack him will be one ? to be ansewered . Hope color won't shade the facts

[r29l20]

So did Z cause Martin to attack him will be one ? to be ansewered . Hope color won't shade the facts

Tell that to sharptin, jackson, and the black panthers.

[SHOOTALL]

Well me telling them won't much matter but if most of America told them to shut up and go home it might.

[magooch]

The last thing I'm going to be worried about is how old someone is, or what color they are if they're sitting on top of me bashing my head into the concrete and breaking my face.  If I've got the means, I'm going to blow their freaking head off.

[coyotejoe]

Those trying to build a murder case are making assumptions contrary to known fact and then advancing an argument contradictory within itself. First they assume that Z "continued to follow M after being advised not to do so". Z's account of events refutes that claim and the cops have said "Evidence supports Z's account". OK so we choose to ignore that, assume Z is lying and the cops are covering for him, though no one knows why they would do that.
 Now the first contradiction. All agree that M had every right to be where he was but somehow the assumption is that Z did not have a right to be there as well, that it was his presence which precipitated the problem. How does that work?
 Next contradiction. They want to portray Martin as the sweet innocent schoolboy (expelled schoolboy) who was just out to buy candy for his little brother. But in the same breath claim that M was such an obvious menace that Z should have known to avoid him.
 Then they claim that "even if M did initiate the contact" he had every right to do so but if Z initiated contact he was totally in the wrong. If M doubled back to ambush the guy who was following him that is not the act of a sensible, well meaning citizen. If I were walking at night and believed I was being followed I would walk directly home, lock the door and call the cops. The last thing I would do is double back and seek a confrontation.
But really that is all moot. Neither party had done anything wrong up to the moment fists began to fly. All that really matters is "was Zimmerman on his back being violently beaten at the time he fired a shot in defense of his life?" Again, all evidence indicates that he was.
 

[Casull]

BTW, if you thought you were being followed by an unidentfied guy in a community, would you lead them to your front door or maybe confront and see what they wanted?

And, tm7, would I be in the right in confronting him by breaking his nose, pinning him to the ground and beating his head into the pavement?  I mean, he was following me.     

[r29l20]

Well me telling them won't much matter but if most of America told them to shut up and go home it might.

+1

[SHOOTALL]

In this part of the world it not a good thing to hear "YOU AIN"T FROM AROUND HERE ARE YA?" if ya ain't 

[finisher]

Well me telling them won't much matter but if most of America told them to shut up and go home it might.

Hooyah to that. I agree.

[SHOOTALL]

so do we see a boycot comming , say any news agency that covers them and those who sponser the news agency ?

[coyotejoe]

TM7 again your fictional scenario assumes Zimmerman, the cops and all witnesses are lying and all evidence is to be ignore. And again it is all moot. I don't care if 100% of the members of this forum would be stupid enough to go out of their way to seek a confrontation with an unknown person who may or may not be armed and who may or may not be following them, the fact remains that the law would not consider that justification for assault.
 Zimmerman was being beaten and defended his life, it doesn't matter that you may fantasize some scenario in which he deserved the beating. Had Zimmerman not shot him it would be darling little Trayvon who would be on trial.

[gstewart44]

TM7 again your fictional scenario assumes Zimmerman, the cops and all witnesses are lying and all evidence is to be ignore........

I think at this juncture TM7 needs to copy/paste this over on his CONSPIRACIES FORUM and continue his unsupported theories over there. 

[Casull]

My question is would this NW CC guy normally carry a cartridge in the chamber.? Yeah, I guess he would.

 
 
 
Why would anyone carry a CC weapon with an empty chamber?

[ironglow]

  While I pointed out that Z had a bit to be desired as a NW person on patrol, still I can see no reason why TM should "double-back" upon Z.  Actually, if one is in a gated community at night, where there have been some problems...one could almost assume anyone following at a distance, may very well be the NW.
  In any case, if it transpired as seems, it behooved TM to inquire as to who Z was and what he wanted....another example of how the situation among many which was "avoidable".
 
  I was initially disappointed at the prosecutor, who before charges were laid and many facts were collected, started right off by saying..we will get "justice for Travon".. With that kind of bias, she should have been fired before she started.
 
  Another nauseating thing..let's knock off the "race card" garbage, the same thing could easily happen without regard to race.

[gstewart44]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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 getstewart...nothing to do with conspiracies as our host tried to impune...it has to do with facts. I'm just trying to figure out what the prosecution has and is thinking. BTW,,,fyi...THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE DEFENSE IS DOING RIGHT NOW.!!  lol.
 
TM7 - I understand you are trying to figure out all of the above.....however your presentation is one that precludes Z's story is false.    Being one who lives in this area and exposed to ALL the misinformation based upon supposition I am particularly sensitive to "jumping to conclusions".   We have already been through the mess that the media has created, and most likely will go through a lot worse if the outcome is anything but a conviction of Z.     I wish everyone would think like what you stated in an earlier post...."we need more info". 
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. BTW, I see Z's pistol was a Keltec PF9 which is a little compact cheap 'double action only', no safety. I don't have a pistol like this, if I were to carry I would carry my revolver +p38+ with one empty under the chamber.  My question is would this NW CC guy normally carry a cartridge in the chamber.? Yeah, I guess he would.
.TM7What do you imply by that, if anything???   If you carry with the hammer down on an empty chamber then you must have a CCW piece that is mechanically like an 1800s SA.   If on the other hand you have a modern DA revolver with hammer block safety trigger bars then your empty chamber is moot.    Either way all you have to do is cock the hammer and fire (in the first scenario), or pull the trigger (in the second).
 
The PF9 is a DA only with hammer block firearm.   ANYONE carrying this piece would need to carry with a round in the chamber to be able to utilize it in an emergency (as CCW may require), just as a modern DA revolver with all chambers loaded.....it is just as safe.    Anyone carrying a semiauto pistol for CCW with an empty chamber is seriously handicapping themselves to the extent of putting their own safety/lives on the line.

[jimster]

I kind of reverted back to revolvers, but carried 1911's auto's for a lot of years before that.  Still like those, but use revolvers now.
Ya have to have a round in the chamber of any auto for cc. IMO.  I can't see fumbling around, hand could slip off the slide while trying to rack it, what if that one time a round doesn't chamber when you rack it, you might not have time even if things go perfect, who knows.  You sure can't rack it if one hand is busy fending off something or somebody or just broken.  If you don't carry a round in the chamber I recommend an all steel full size auto, darn good club.  It's called a handgun for a reason...one hand.  If ya need two it's a handsgun. 

[gstewart44]

  BTW, I see Z's pistol was a Keltec PF9 which is a little compact cheap 'double action only', no safety. I don't have a pistol like this, if I were to carry I would carry my revolver +p38+ with one empty under the chamber. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
..TM7

Tell us TM7,  what is the revolver you allude to above, if you were to carry, with one chamber empty under the hammer??   

[r29l20]

  BTW, I see Z's pistol was a Keltec PF9 which is a little compact cheap 'double action only', no safety. I don't have a pistol like this, if I were to carry I would carry my revolver +p38+ with one empty under the chamber. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
..TM7

Tell us TM7,  what is the revolver you allude to above, if you were to carry, with one chamber empty under the hammer ??   

Why not just carry it unloaded.

[ironglow]

   Just  remember this..IF.. you go into full attack mode with a bag of Skittles..it may not work out too well...
 
   Now; there's an interesting thought..what became of the bag of Skilttles ?  Seriously, if the skittles were found at the scene of the encounter, that may indicate a surprise or at least unexpected encounter.  If the Skittles were "stashed", say under a bush or on a ledge somewhere between sighting and encounter..that would indicate a planned attack and return to retrieve.
   Has anyone heard anything about the can of tea...was it used as a weapon, was it damaged...if so was there hair or DNA on the can ?   All interesting questions...

[SHOOTALL]

The first ? to be ansewered is will the FL. be upheld or will it be tossed out due to gang intemidation ? Second can the state of Fl. or local DA's prove it was not self defense which is what the law says if upheld.
Now why on earth would one carry a gun with no round in the chamber ? That's like a spare tire with out air or a fire ext. empty. If your gun can't be carried loaded safely get one that can be.

[lakota]

the safety on the kel tec is the same as it is on any double action revolver which is the looooong  and heavy double action trigger pull and the safety between your ears.  I dont see how the type of weapon Z chose fo CC is relavent as it is perfectly legal to own a kel tec.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk

[ironglow]

  TM;  I don't carry while on NW...but of course, I don't live in Z's neighborhood.  Perhaps if I did I may carry..but I doubt it.  Our neighborhood is simply a small, rural hamlet...but we have a very nice town park.  For a while we had some unsavory types hanging around there, who showed signs of being drug users/dealers.  Just one time we called in on a carload and they were busted with the goods. 
    Where Z made his mistake(IMO) is patrolling alone; a second person with presence and/or phone/camera helps.. but perhaps all others in Z's neighborhood were lazy or afraid, depending upon the residents. 
   Another thing I would like to see all NW groups take on is wearing visible identification, such as our caps. Not only would this allay fears a youth may have with someone "following" them, but may add assurance for elderly when a NW person is nearby after dark.  Also, if someone with a "chip" decides to confront a NW patrol..the jury would know that the aggressor knew full well who he was attacking.
No, I don't carry, but if I had many burglaries and such confrontations as this..I may.  I do carry one of my hand forged walking sticks..which could be very effective, whether used club or spear wise... Things have calmed down to a point where patrols are only sporadic..and unfortunately solo..
     Always keep in mind..Watch dogs...not Attack dogs !
 
 Below, see NW cap and forged head walking sticks;
 

[finisher]

    Another nauseating thing..let's knock off the "race card" garbage, the same thing could easily happen without regard to race.

*************
Thank you sir! I 2nd that most whole heartedly!