Author Topic: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence  (Read 6478 times)

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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2012, 03:47:23 AM »
Then there's a prime wittness #6 changing testimony that it was the Kid screaming for help and not Zman.
.TM7

That statement is not true. http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/18/11761522-key-witness-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-changed-story?lite
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2012, 04:01:24 AM »
Will be good to see forensics on the wound, trajectory and bullet path, because I've seen some scuttlebutt that the bullet wound was actually from the back.!! That they claim 'intermediate' shot distance is 1 to 18 inches is interesting.  More than 8 to 10 feet and Zman might have a big prioblem. Then there's a prime wittness #6 changing testimony that it was the Kid screaming for help and not Zman.  Also, pharmcological report on Zman not looking good, prescribed a few psych meds, one being 'adderall', which is an amphetamine salt and his commonly abused for a 'cooked on amphetmaine' high......In my state having Zman's  rap sheet and prescribed psyche meds precludes one from CC, or even owning a firearm legally; or perhaps NOT the best choice for a NW enthusiast.
.
.TM7
TM7- where did you see/hear about the wound being in the back???  Was that from the racebaitinghatemongering stuff that was pervasive last month?    Just curious because the coroners autopsy report was among the things that were released.   the 9mm bullet did not exit according to the coroner.   All fragments were recovered. The bullet went through the heart on an upward trajectory with powder burns on the front of the clothing.   It seems if someone is purporting that TM was shot in the back at this point then they are deliberately trying to stir up the uneducated masses.   
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Offline finisher

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2012, 09:36:46 PM »
Quote
Some where along the line, the observe part got tossed out

 
 
That's a mighty big assumption.  Zimmerman may well have been observing right up till the time Martin started beating.  The autopsy report made no mention of any damage to Martin, other than the gun shot wound (unless the injuries to his knuckles were from Zimmerman beating Martin's fists with his face).  As I noted previously, it is highly doubtful that Zimmerman shot Martin prior to Martin laying the smack down on him.

This could be the case... where the kid doesn't take kindly to being followed, turns around and starts mouthing off and from there egos start flaring and feathers ruffle while ol' Z just sheepishly turns and retreats having done (or said ) absolutely nothing to agravate an already potentially volatile situation, then TM decides "hell, I'll just whoop his a** any way".
 
This is the is the scenario that I'm perceiving is being suggested. I'm not suggesting that Z assaulted TM in any way prior to the shooting. ::)
 
From a legal stand point (if this is more or less the way it went down), not taking into account what words MAY or MAY NOT have been exchanged before the actual physical altercation, Z is justified in defending himself while he was getting thumped.
 
But no one seems to be asking what it was that triggered the whoopin.
 
In my experience, roughly 9 out of ten physical altercations on the street could have been avoided if at least one party would have just grown up, put away their ego and defused the situation with a some verbal conflict resolution skills (definitely not in high abundance with people in general, unfortunately).
 
And afterwards, everyone plays the "saint" saying "I didn't say anything to him, I don't know why he wanted to kick my a**"   ....yeah, sure buddy ::) .
 
I can say this because at a younger age, I was one of those knuckle heads who while in the Navy was always getting into bar fights even up to about Zimmermans age.
 
Having taken quite a few painful and unnecessary bumps and dings, maturing, and looking back, I know that almost everyone of those situations was totally avoidable (except in the case of the Australian sailors who see brawling with other sailors as a way of showing affection, followed by a couple rounds of beer ;D ).
 
Yes, I know, from a legal stand point it doesn't matter (it was happening and Z defended himself justifiably). And the idea that "it could have been avoided" seems to be irrelevent, in the opinions of many here.
 
OK I guess, from a legal standpoint but a human being is still dead when it quite possibly didn't have to go down the way it did. And I won't presume to play "God " and judge the amount of worth on anyones life in this case.
 
And although the thumpin that TM gave him may not have been justified (if Z is telling the truth about so innocently retreating without so much as a word), I just don't buy the whole "I'm just a dedicated model citizen looking out for my community while minding ALL my Ps and Qs" thing.
 
I know it doesn't mean squat in court, but I think the kid (right or wrong; probably wrong though), thinking "I'm not doing anything wrong, WHO is this guy", turned and told Z to hit the road, Z got cocky and talked some trash because he knew he was packing.
 
The kid then probably decided he wasn't going to take Z's "Barney Feif" BS and went up and put Z on his shelf.
 
Street mentality Vs. Barney Feif.
 
If this is more or less the case, like I said Z is legaly justified... but in my opinion, still the bigger jackass of the two.
 
"...mans got to know his limitations"
 

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2012, 11:57:53 PM »
Who is the jury to believe---that will be the real test.
Now, in order for the defense to get the Case thrown out it will have to bring its WHOLE defense before a judge to rule. That is a two edged sword. Do you want a judge to rule or a jury?
While the judge would not be able to rule guilty or innocent, the whole of the defense would be revealed.
I would rather put my defense before a jury who I might persuade than a judge who would be a little less persuadable.
The state has a case, without a doubt. It will depend on wheather or not Z can sway the jury.
Blessings 
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2012, 12:28:43 AM »
  Perhaps it would have been avoidable, had Z been allowed to "brandish" his weapon.  Yes, admittedly brandishing is a form of assault and in probably 99% of the time it should not be used in this way.
  Florida's 'brandishing" law:  Read under assault paragraph    http://www.bocaratoncriminaldefenselawyer.com/topics/weapons.html
   There are some cases where it would save problems as it did in the case of one of my co-workers, years ago.  Rich was a slender guy, maybe 140 lbs, one summer day his ragtop sports car was forced off the road in a 'road rage' incident. As 4-5 angry young men cam running down the berm, shouting curses and apparently ready to do great harm...
     Rich did 'brandish' his weapon..whereupon the toughs turned tail..shouting "he's packing"..and quickly left.  They evidently did not report him..likely they were not the 'wholesome' types who wanted any dealings with police.. ;)
 
  Perhaps if brandishing were allowed, TM may be alive today...of course, he had drugs in his system..so who knows..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline lakota

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2012, 05:16:22 AM »
If Zimmerman is exonerated in a Florida court can Holder and his "justice" Department still bring "hate crime" charges against Zimmerman?
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Offline Brett

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2012, 06:24:36 AM »
Has a transcript of Zimmerman's call to the police been released to the public.  I thought I had read somewhere that Zimmerman gave some detail to police as to what type of suspicious activities he witnessed Martin doing, walking between houses, looking in back yards, in windows, etc.   From what I read it didn't sound like Martin was just walking down the sidewalk from the store to his old man's girlfriend's house as the family and media has claimed. 

I've never lived in a gated community with a neighborhood watch team so I'm not familiar with what the proper procedures are there.  However, I would think Zimmerman had every right to follow a stranger in the neighborhood and even question him as to whether or not he had any business being there. 

I live out in the sticks and we look out for each other out here.  If we see a strange vehicle or person enter a neighbors yard when we know they are not home we generally go see what they are up to.   I don't mean in a confrontational way.  I'll usually approach with caution and say something like "Hi, I live across the road and saw your vehicle.   Were the 'Smith's' expecting you or do you need some help with something?"   Whether they are selling insurance or If they are friends just passing by who thought they would stop and say hello to 'John' and 'Jane'  I'll tell them "I think they ran out to the store (a half hour round trip from where we are.), sorry you missed them. Give me your name or business card and I'll let them know you stopped by."

All my neighbors will do the same, using similar approaches I imagine. 

And yes, We will be packing.



   
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Offline Casull

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2012, 06:34:24 AM »
Quote
Now, in order for the defense to get the Case thrown out it will have to bring its WHOLE defense before a judge to rule. That is a two edged sword. Do you want a judge to rule or a jury?
While the judge would not be able to rule guilty or innocent, the whole of the defense would be revealed.
I would rather put my defense before a jury who I might persuade than a judge who would be a little less persuadable.

 
 
Actually, he'd probably be better off with the judge ruling, since the judge could determine as a "matter of law" that his actions were within the law.  Juries can be fickle.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2012, 06:51:56 AM »
Has a transcript of Zimmerman's call to the police been released to the public.  I thought I had read somewhere that Zimmerman gave some detail to police as to what type of suspicious activities he witnessed Martin doing, walking between houses, looking in back yards, in windows, etc.   From what I read it didn't sound like Martin was just walking down the sidewalk from the store to his old man's girlfriend's house as the family and media has claimed. 

I've never lived in a gated community with a neighborhood watch team so I'm not familiar with what the proper procedures are there.  However, I would think Zimmerman had every right to follow a stranger in the neighborhood and even question him as to whether or not he had any business being there. 

I live out in the sticks and we look out for each other out here.  If we see a strange vehicle or person enter a neighbors yard when we know they are not home we generally go see what they are up to.   I don't mean in a confrontational way.  I'll usually approach with caution and say something like "Hi, I live across the road and saw your vehicle.   Were the 'Smith's' expecting you or do you need some help with something?"   Whether they are selling insurance or If they are friends just passing by who thought they would stop and say hello to 'John' and 'Jane'  I'll tell them "I think they ran out to the store (a half hour round trip from where we are.), sorry you missed them. Give me your name or business card and I'll let them know you stopped by."

All my neighbors will do the same, using similar approaches I imagine. 

And yes, We will be packing.



 
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  Brett;
  Although I live in a small hamlet now, most of my life I lived in the sticks.. we followed the same pattern and still do with my closer neighbors here.
  Even today, if I see a vehicle parked somewhere where it seems out of place or arouses any suspicion..I will take pen & paper and jot down a plate number and description... just in case..
 
  I suppose anybody can ask anybody a question or two but neighborhood watch or not, they do not have to answer or even  acknowledge the questioner's existence , if they are the rude type.
 
  It is indeed a shame that we live in such tense arrangements that there could not have been the following conversation;
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   
  Zimmerman: " Hi, I'm the local Neighborhood Watch and I guess I haven't seen you here before.  So, I am wondering.. How is it you are here ?
 
  Martin:  " I'm visiting my Dad for a few days..he lives at # 32 park wood."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   END OF STORY...
  Now, that would be much preferred to somebody dying, isn't it ?  How and when did we get so uncivilized ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2012, 06:57:26 AM »
If Zimmerman is exonerated in a Florida court can Holder and his "justice" Department still bring "hate crime" charges against Zimmerman?
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  Lakota;
   Don't you know trhat would make too much sense to keep "big government" off his back, here's the answer from Holder's "justice" dept:
 
  http://rt.com/usa/news/fbi-zimmerman-hate-crime-317/
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline lakota

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2012, 07:11:05 AM »
If Zimmerman is exonerated in a Florida court can Holder and his "justice" Department still bring "hate crime" charges against Zimmerman?
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  Lakota;
   Don't you know trhat would make too much sense to keep "big government" off his back, here's the answer from Holder's "justice" dept:
 
  http://rt.com/usa/news/fbi-zimmerman-hate-crime-317/

Thanks for the link. I didnt know if that would count as "double jeopardy" under the Constitution. I figure that federal hate crime charges are the back up plan if the Florida courts fail to appease the race baiters.
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Offline Brett

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2012, 08:01:39 AM »
  Brett;
  Although I live in a small hamlet now, most of my life I lived in the sticks.. we followed the same pattern and still do with my closer neighbors here.
  Even today, if I see a vehicle parked somewhere where it seems out of place or arouses any suspicion..I will take pen & paper and jot down a plate number and description... just in case..
 
  I suppose anybody can ask anybody a question or two but neighborhood watch or not, they do not have to answer or even  acknowledge the questioner's existence , if they are the rude type.
 
  It is indeed a shame that we live in such tense arrangements that there could not have been the following conversation;
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   
  Zimmerman: " Hi, I'm the local Neighborhood Watch and I guess I haven't seen you here before.  So, I am wondering.. How is it you are here ?
 
  Martin:  " I'm visiting my Dad for a few days..he lives at # 32 park wood."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   END OF STORY...
  Now, that would be much preferred to somebody dying, isn't it ?  How and when did we get so uncivilized ?

Yup, I agree.  Your scenario would have had a much happier ending for all concerned.   Seems like ever one either has a chip on their shoulder or a 'gangsta' attitude or something these days.  "You talkin' to me?!",  "What are you lookin' at?!".

I have no idea what words if any were exchanged between Martin and Zimmerman prior to things getting out of hand.   As in my scenario above I try to let individuals know that eyes are upon them without being rude or confrontational.  If I happen to be the one out of place for some reason I again refrain from being rude or confrontational.       

If people would just chill a little and show one another a little respect a lot of trouble could be avoided.       
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Offline lakota

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2012, 08:48:01 AM »
  Brett;
  Although I live in a small hamlet now, most of my life I lived in the sticks.. we followed the same pattern and still do with my closer neighbors here.
  Even today, if I see a vehicle parked somewhere where it seems out of place or arouses any suspicion..I will take pen & paper and jot down a plate number and description... just in case..
 
  I suppose anybody can ask anybody a question or two but neighborhood watch or not, they do not have to answer or even  acknowledge the questioner's existence , if they are the rude type.
 
  It is indeed a shame that we live in such tense arrangements that there could not have been the following conversation;
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   
  Zimmerman: " Hi, I'm the local Neighborhood Watch and I guess I haven't seen you here before.  So, I am wondering.. How is it you are here ?
 
  Martin:  " I'm visiting my Dad for a few days..he lives at # 32 park wood."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   END OF STORY...
  Now, that would be much preferred to somebody dying, isn't it ?  How and when did we get so uncivilized ?

Yup, I agree.  Your scenario would have had a much happier ending for all concerned.   Seems like ever one either has a chip on their shoulder or a 'gangsta' attitude or something these days.  "You talkin' to me?!",  "What are you lookin' at?!".

I have no idea what words if any were exchanged between Martin and Zimmerman prior to things getting out of hand.   As in my scenario above I try to let individuals know that eyes are upon them without being rude or confrontational.  If I happen to be the one out of place for some reason I again refrain from being rude or confrontational.       

If people would just chill a little and show one another a little respect a lot of trouble could be avoided.      

Very true. Unfortunatley it seems anymore that our entire society is based on contempt and disrespect.
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Offline tobster

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2012, 10:45:47 AM »
We don't have a formal neighborhood watch in the area I live,but we watch each others property. I have one neighbor who takes a picture of the person in question with his cell phone, then asks in a polite way what the person may need. I guess you might say he shoots first and asks questions later! If a car is parked along the road late at night, I find shining one of the mega candlepower spotlights their way lets them know someone is watching. 

Offline bilmac

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2012, 01:51:48 PM »
Even though that State has a stand your ground law, I think the media has just confused the issue[typical} by bringing it up. If someone is trying to beat your brains out you have the right to defend yourself almost anywhere. Stand your ground is just a red herring.
 
The dispatcher told Z quit following T but who's to say he didn't. If he had turned his back on Z that would explain how a kid was able to so completely overpower Z

Offline ironglow

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2012, 03:10:08 PM »
Even though that State has a stand your ground law, I think the media has just confused the issue[typical} by bringing it up. If someone is trying to beat your brains out you have the right to defend yourself almost anywhere. Stand your ground is just a red herring.
 
The dispatcher told Z quit following T but who's to say he didn't. If he had turned his back on Z that would explain how a kid was able to so completely overpower Z
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
    And perhaps how he got some of those wounds to the BACK of his head.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline finisher

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2012, 05:54:28 PM »
  Perhaps it would have been avoidable, had Z been allowed to "brandish" his weapon.  Yes, admittedly brandishing is a form of assault and in probably 99% of the time it should not be used in this way.
  Florida's 'brandishing" law:  Read under assault paragraph    http://www.bocaratoncriminaldefenselawyer.com/topics/weapons.html
   There are some cases where it would save problems as it did in the case of one of my co-workers, years ago.  Rich was a slender guy, maybe 140 lbs, one summer day his ragtop sports car was forced off the road in a 'road rage' incident. As 4-5 angry young men cam running down the berm, shouting curses and apparently ready to do great harm...
     Rich did 'brandish' his weapon..whereupon the toughs turned tail..shouting "he's packing"..and quickly left.  They evidently did not report him..likely they were not the 'wholesome' types who wanted any dealings with police.. ;)
 
  Perhaps if brandishing were allowed, TM may be alive today...of course, he had drugs in his system..so who knows..
*****************************
Brandishing could very well have made a difference, and a jury may not have necessarily convicted Z of that.
 
In California, cops undergo hours and hours of training in report writing that is specifically tailored for this type of event.
 
The purpose is to teach them how to say just what needs to be said and how not to say too much... " he approached my in a threatening manner with his screw driver, I was afraid for my safety and life and I defended myself..."
 
They are taught to put more focus on what the other guy did rather than what the cop did, while stressing the FEAR of EMINENT danger.
 
It helps LE to stay (on paper) within the legal guidelines of the use of deadly force without their putting their foot in their mouths. It helps even more when there are no other witnesses. Yes I have taken a couple of these classes.
 
With LE, after an incident, it all comes down to writen documentation. and it is the reason why so many bad cops get away with alot of the crap they pull (unless they get caught on camera of course).
 
As I said before, they are trained to "tailor", if you will, not falsify the report. It is also one of the most troublesome areas for LE trainers to teach as the majority of LA cops are not hired for their intellectual armament.
 
Most private citizens, being ignorant of the law, and never having had such training in "tailoring" writen statements will likely be convicted for ADW even in a case where it could have been justified.
 
Much depends on the first few things one says to the police after they arrive. One can remain silent in which case you will be presumed guilty; or one can say exactly what needs to be said according to the legal letter of the law (means, opportunity, eminent danger, fear for safety and life, etc. etc.) and stick to that plain and simple while avoiding elaborating as little as possible untill things have calmed down and you've had time to think.
 
It's alot to ask of any private citizen but then again, the decision to carry and wield the power over life and death carries with it much responsibility, enlightenment, and understanding of the law of which many who pack, inspite of having passed the classes and written tests(Zimmerman included), quite too often do not completely grasp.
 

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2012, 11:47:12 PM »
I wonder if Martin were the survivor he would have said "he approached me in a threatening manner?"
We will never know.
In all honesty--we only have one story. Is it the total truth? I doubt we will ever know.
Ialso wonder why Martin would attack if he didn't feel threatened.?!
Before you comment--remember--It is not you, that you are answering for-it is Martin.
Dead of night, rain, chilly and wanting to get out of the night and someone is walking behind you.
I think Z was, at the very least, STUPID.
Complicit, also, in the whole of the events.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2012, 03:36:51 AM »
I wonder if Martin were the survivor he would have said "he approached me in a threatening manner?"
We will never know.
In all honesty--we only have one story. Is it the total truth? I doubt we will ever know.
Ialso wonder why Martin would attack if he didn't feel threatened.?!
Before you comment--remember--It is not you, that you are answering for-it is Martin.
Dead of night, rain, chilly and wanting to get out of the night and someone is walking behind you.
I think Z was, at the very least, STUPID.
Complicit, also, in the whole of the events.
Blessings

  Well William,  It you are going to take "wild guesses", i can take a wild guess too and answer your question of why Martin would attack if he didn't feel threatened.
 
  How about, with the name HE CHOSE, like "no limmit nig", he was just a wanna b gang banger, and attacked to show himself  how tough he is??? 
 
  It's as good a guess as any you have.
 
  DM

Offline bilmac

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2012, 04:57:34 AM »
+ 1 on what Finisher said. I was trained in cop school to not go shooting your mouth off after a shooting. How many times have you said things you later regretted? Multiply the danger of doing that times at least 10 if your body is suffering a huge overdose of adreniline. Guys who have made perfectly legitimate shootings have blurted out things like  "I made a nice center shot didn't I". Belive me the first cop on the scene is paying very close attention to the first words out of your mouth, and they will be written down, and the prosecuter will say them in front of the jury.
 
What should be the first words out of your mouth, " I was afraid  blank blank blank." and not much more. My next words will probably will brobably be something like, "I was trained in Law Enforcement school not to say anything more until I have had a chance to let the adreneline calm down and talk to a lawyer" If I hadn't been a cop, I would say something like "my cop brother in law or neighbor or some other connection told me" [make a true statement, even if you have to say, I was advised on the internet].
 
HAVE A PLAN FOLKS, drum these things into your mind because your mind will definately not be working very well if it is on adreneline overload.

Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2012, 05:41:35 AM »
I wonder if Martin were the survivor he would have said "he approached me in a threatening manner?"
We will never know.
In all honesty--we only have one story. Is it the total truth? I doubt we will ever know.
Ialso wonder why Martin would attack if he didn't feel threatened.?!
Before you comment--remember--It is not you, that you are answering for-it is Martin.
Dead of night, rain, chilly and wanting to get out of the night and someone is walking behind you.
I think Z was, at the very least, STUPID.
Complicit, also, in the whole of the events.
Blessings

  Well William,  It you are going to take "wild guesses", i can take a wild guess too and answer your question of why Martin would attack if he didn't feel threatened.
 
  How about, with the name HE CHOSE, like "no limmit nig", he was just a wanna b gang banger, and attacked to show himself  how tough he is??? 
 
  It's as good a guess as any you have.
 
  DM
[/quote A BIG +1

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2012, 06:53:37 AM »
I think way too much is being made of the "could have been avoided" bit. Any situation "could have been avoided" if someone had done something differently and this situation could have been avoided if either party had done something different, so what, the fact is they didn't.
I also don't understand why the cop felt it worth mentioning that Martin "was doing nothing criminal" prior to the confrontation. No one does anything criminal prior to doing something criminal. If the cop feels that worth mention then why not also say "and neither did Zimmerman".
 I think it totally irrelevant as to who initiated the confrontation, there was nothing criminal in that either. Even if we take the extreme example of Zimmerman verbally insulting Martin, we might say that justifies a punch in the nose but the law does not agree. Verbal insults do not justify physical assault. If, as some have speculated, Z confronted M and demanded to know "what the hell is your black ass doing here", that would be pretty stupid but still does not justify M knocking Z to the ground and beating the crap out of him.
 It doesn't matter whether Martin went to the store to buy Skittles or to sell dope. All that matters is what has never been disputed, Zimmerman was on his back with Martin on top beating on him and Zimmerman fired in self defense.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Casull

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2012, 07:13:03 AM »
Quote
All that matters is what has never been disputed, Zimmerman was on his back with Martin on top beating on him and Zimmerman fired in self defense.

 
 
 
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline finisher

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2012, 07:33:22 AM »
@ Casull and coyotejoe: If only the world and the affairs involving people really were that simple and black and white.
 
I guess that really is ALL that matters... if one views the world in black and white.
 
Please do not misinterpret; I intend absolutly no racial or ethnic conotation what so ever.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2012, 07:36:15 AM »
I've been around these amateur security guards (and even many professionals including police) that are really stupid about handling situations. Their behavior leads to a rapid escalation of a problem. I've seen this again and again. It takes a cool person to keep a bad situation from escalating. Anybody can be on a neighborhood watch, but I would bet that most don't have that important skill.  Some facts about the amateur security guard have come out that seem to support him, but there's a very good chance that his behavior triggered the attack, regardless of who struck the first blow. Kids that age are notoriously hot headed, so I expect the adult in the situation to have the better judgement.

Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2012, 09:57:52 AM »
Quote
All that matters is what has never been disputed, Zimmerman was on his back with Martin on top beating on him and Zimmerman fired in self defense.

 
 
 
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!
+2

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #86 on: May 21, 2012, 10:56:07 AM »
the shot was 12 to 18 inches away . if that's all that matters the shooter must have had short arms if the guy was on top of him  ;)
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ironglow

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #87 on: May 21, 2012, 11:04:56 AM »
the shot was 12 to 18 inches away . if that's all that matters the shooter must have had short arms if the guy was on top of him  ;)
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  The well known Dr Micheal baden was on Fox News this morning.  He suggested that by the info in the autopsy report the gun muzzle had to have been right against the body.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline m-g Willy

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #88 on: May 21, 2012, 12:57:13 PM »
Quote
All that matters is what has never been disputed, Zimmerman was on his back with Martin on top beating on him and Zimmerman fired in self defense.

 
 
 
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!
.
  Had Zman stayed in car as instructed the kid would be alive, but he didn't indicating he was being agressive.
 
 .
.
...TM7
"IF" ??
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle!
Zimmerman had every right to do what he did from the time he spotted Martin up to and including defending himself against Martin.
"IF"
If Martin didn't get himself thrown out of school,,,IF Martin didn't have drugs in his system,,,IF Martin just went home ,,IF Martin kept his hands to himself...he would be alive today!
So much for ,,,"IF"
 
 
 

Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #89 on: May 21, 2012, 02:03:56 PM »

 
 .
.
...TM7

"IF" ??
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle!
Zimmerman had every right to do what he did from the time he spotted Martin up to and including defending himself against Martin.
"IF"
If Martin didn't get himself thrown out of school,,,IF Martin didn't have drugs in his system,,,IF Martin just went home ,,IF Martin kept his hands to himself...he would be alive today!
So much for ,,,"IF"
 
 
 
A GREAT BIG +1