Author Topic: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence  (Read 6479 times)

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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #90 on: May 21, 2012, 02:45:39 PM »
.
Nope not exactly and not necessarily.  We need more information.
  So we don't know and we need more info
...TM7
You said it twice....we need more info and that is correct.  So I am puzzled as to why you state:
 
 
 Had Zman stayed in car as instructed the kid would be alive, but he didn't indicating he was being agressive.
...TM7

You say we need more info,  and then turn right around and repeat false information.    If you listened to the entire 911 recording you would hear that Zimmerman was not instructed to stay in his car.    He was already out of his car (because he lost sight of TM) when he was asked if he was following TM and then the dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that".  Z responded "OK".  Z has stated that he was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked from behind.   
 
What you don't know, what I don't know and darned certain the flamer media don't know is where and when TM and Z made contact or who initiated it.    Z's actions up to the point of the dispatcher saying "We don't need you to do that are consistent with someone OBSERVING another person in a public area.    It is not stalking and it is not, as you surmise, being aggressive.    Please consider your own words of needing more info before you try and offer up your opinion as fact.
 
This whole situation has been spun out of control and made a lot worse by race baiters, antigun types and hate mongers that do not care about the truth.    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,  they are not entitled to their own facts.
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline hillbill

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #91 on: May 21, 2012, 02:48:04 PM »
hmmm, lots of good info and talk here.a spirited debate for sure. one thing it does do is make me want to carry a large revolver and just "marshall dillon" them upside the head with it. and i do know thats not always a option in a situation like this.but it would of been better for both parties for sure.if you dont get this reference then your prob a punk anyway.

Offline lakota

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #92 on: May 21, 2012, 03:01:58 PM »
What about the most disturbing part of this whole debacle? A group of sorry individuals has waged a successful campaign to deny a man his right to a jury trial and replaced it with a right to trial by mob and trial by media.
 
Remember this could happen to YOU.
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Offline hillbill

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #93 on: May 21, 2012, 03:08:24 PM »
What about the most disturbing part of this whole debacle? A group of sorry individuals has waged a successful campaign to deny a man his right to a jury trial and replaced it with a right to trial by mob and trial by media.
 
Remember this could happen to YOU.

that is a good point as well!
 

Offline gstewart44

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #94 on: May 21, 2012, 03:24:40 PM »
What about the most disturbing part of this whole debacle? A group of sorry individuals has waged a successful campaign to deny a man his right to a jury trial and replaced it with a right to trial by mob and trial by media.
 
Remember this could happen to YOU.
+1 Lakota
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #95 on: May 21, 2012, 03:36:18 PM »
What about the most disturbing part of this whole debacle? A group of sorry individuals has waged a successful campaign to deny a man his right to a jury trial and replaced it with a right to trial by mob and trial by media.
 
Remember this could happen to YOU.
+1 Lakota
+2 r29l20

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #96 on: May 21, 2012, 04:54:16 PM »
http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-case-charges-dropped-080020734--abc-news-topstories.html
 
 
Two prominent U.S. lawyers are among the skeptics questioning whether evidence in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin supports the second-degree murder charge against George Zimmerman, given the confessed shooter's apparent injuries and freshly released eyewitness accounts.
"There is no second-degree murder evidence in this case," Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz said. "It's a very close case."
Details released in the past week add to the picture of what might have transpired on that rainy Feb. 26 before Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain in the Sanford, Fla., community where Martin, 17, was staying with his father's fiancée, shot the teen dead.
Previously unknown particulars, including the scrape on Martin's knuckle and photos of Zimmerman's battered and swollen face -- which were taken moments after he shot and killed Martin in what he says was self defense -- coupled with eyewitness accounts that back up Zimmerman's story, suggest for some that the prosecutor overreached.
"I'd rather play the defense than the prosecutor, because there's no way you get a murder-two conviction," journalist-attorney Geraldo Rivera said on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor" last week.
Zimmerman, 28, whose father is white and mother Hispanic, had volunteered for the neighborhood watch committee. He has said that he shot Martin, an African-American, in self-defense after the teen knocked him to the ground, banged his head against the ground and went for Zimmerman's gun.
The release of evidence by the prosecution Thursday also included potentially damning eyewitness accounts of the tussle between the two. One man at the scene told police he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, pummeling him mixed martial arts-style.
With more of the prosecution's evidence now public, legal experts like Dershowitz are blaming what they're already calling "the failure" of this racially charged case on Special Prosecutor Angela Corey.
"If there are demonstrations, the finger of responsibility will point directly at the prosecutor," Dershowitz said.
Corey, the state attorney in Florida's Fourth Judicial Circuit Court, was assigned to the case by Florida Gov. Rick Scott nearly a month after the shooting. Corey said this weekend that evidence released so far is not the sum total of her case.
"What the general public has to remember and the media has to remember is that there is a lot we cannot release by law," Corey said.
Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara apparently agrees with Corey.
"[It is] way too early to tell," he said. "That's me not only commenting on evidence, but the weight of all the evidence. And I don't even have all the evidence."
One key to the case is which of the two men instigated the clash that left Martin dead. The prosecution says Zimmerman initiated the altercation when he "profiled" Martin that night, and then got out of his car to follow him. In the newly released documents, lead homicide officer on the case, Chris Serino of the Sanford Police Department, called the shooting "avoidable" had Zimmerman remained in his vehicle.
What has yet to be seen are two main pieces of evidence: Zimmerman's statement on the night of the incident, and his reenactment of the events of that night, which could prove vital when and if the case is heard in court.
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Offline two-blocked

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #97 on: May 21, 2012, 05:35:56 PM »
"It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"
I'd hate to be either one of them. Zim may be on the enviable side of the quick and the dead but his life is going to be hell for who knows how long.
Til the trial everything is speculation. It is going to be interesting to see what the forensics support.
 

Offline finisher

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #98 on: May 21, 2012, 08:10:26 PM »
Quote
All that matters is what has never been disputed, Zimmerman was on his back with Martin on top beating on him and Zimmerman fired in self defense.

 
 
 
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!
+2
**********
I'm sad to say it, but from a legal stand point, it is true...

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #99 on: May 22, 2012, 01:24:22 AM »
the shot was 12 to 18 inches away . if that's all that matters the shooter must have had short arms if the guy was on top of him  ;)
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  The well known Dr Micheal baden was on Fox News this morning.  He suggested that by the info in the autopsy report the gun muzzle had to have been right against the body.

just saying what others reported , if it was close or in contact there should be "STUFF" on the gun such as blood, skin , bone fragments etc it should be easy to prove.
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Offline Tommyt

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #100 on: May 22, 2012, 01:30:12 AM »
http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-case-charges-dropped-080020734--abc-news-topstories.html
 
 George Zimmerman Case: Should Charges Be Dropped? Two prominent U.S. lawyers are among the skeptics questioning whether evidence in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin supports the second-degree murder charge against George Zimmerman, given the confessed shooter's apparent injuries and freshly released eyewitness accounts.

Offline lakota

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #101 on: May 22, 2012, 01:32:32 AM »
Quote from article Cuts Crooked posted:
 
"Zimmerman, 28, whose father is white and mother Hispanic..."   "Martin, an African-American..."
 
Why do they constantly beat this into the ground when these two facts are absolutely irrelevant to the case?
 
One guy shoots another guy and claims self defense. What are the facts? Was it a clean shot or not? We do not need to know the races of those involved to come to a conclusion. Race certainly wouldnt be an issue if this were a black on white or a half black on white shooting.
 
And this whole "Zimmerman profiled Martin" issue-how can they prove what Zimmerman was thinking?
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #102 on: May 22, 2012, 02:00:00 AM »
Quote from article Cuts Crooked posted:
 
"Zimmerman, 28, whose father is white and mother Hispanic..."   "Martin, an African-American..."
 
Why do they constantly beat this into the ground when these two facts are absolutely irrelevant to the case?Because it gets people to look when the story is otherwise not news worthy.
 
One guy shoots another guy and claims self defense. What are the facts? Was it a clean shot or not? We do not need to know the races of those involved to come to a conclusion. Race certainly wouldnt be an issue if this were a black on white or a half black on white shooting.Z's grandfather was reported to be part black  ???
 
And this whole "Zimmerman profiled Martin" issue-how can they prove what Zimmerman was thinking? I would be profiling , lets see looks like a duck , talks like a duck , walks like a duck .........................When out and about I don't fear old ladies I fear punks and gang members , being PC can get one killed  ;)

2nd degree may be a streach , manslaughter may be reality , Z followed and some would think he contributed to esculating the confrotation to a fight making him to a point shareing responsiblity for the death.
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Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #103 on: May 22, 2012, 03:01:10 AM »
 Also, Keep in mind technically the kid was under 18 and still a child.
.
..TM7
.
A gang banger child. A thug child. Attacked another person child. A 6ft 2" child. I guess he should have asked how old he was, instead of going on his actions.  ??? ::)

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #104 on: May 22, 2012, 03:02:19 AM »
Getstewart.... I'm surmizing Zman was perhaps a known quantity down at the PD station...from his record, his CC, father's reputation, him calling PD often, and his night watch enthusiasm, etc.  With or without this Zman 'knowledge' they told him to stay put, or stay in his car, or break off and wait for PD.  But he didn't do this and apparently got close enough to the Kid for a scuffles to break out....I say scuffles because this event may be broken down into a few different acts to the whole event.  So I don't know if Zman's defense can  proove he was jumped by The Kid's in a pre-emptive attack or not, but they are claiming the Kid was going for Zman's psitol!  How did the Kid know Zman had a pistol.?  So, Prosecutors will likely claim Zman's actions were 'aggressive', elicited fear in the Kid who stood ground with fear for life. Also, Keep in mind technically the kid was under 18 and still a child.
.
..TM7
.

I'm afraid you don't understand the legal process......Z doesn't have to prove anything. The "state" does.
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline ironglow

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #105 on: May 22, 2012, 03:26:41 AM »
  Yes..this could happen to you...  Mob rule is not a good thing..this 21st century lynch mob who put a price on Z's head should have landed in the klink.
 
  To say..if Z had only stayed in the car..well; IF Martin had not been ejected from his school, IF Martin would have calmly asked what Z wanted, If he had picked up his Skittles a couple hours earlier, IF  Z had not been armed, If the gun had misfired..all "ifs".  Ifs are only conjecture and the court has to deal with what it has..
 
  As far as the media continually harping about "white/hispanic' or  African/American....  That has no bearing upon the case..if their ethnicites were reversed...Martin would still be dead and Z would still be in jail...
   Playing the race card in this case is nothing more than an amateurish attempt by a poor excuse for a journalist..trying to build a story.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Online Graybeard

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #106 on: May 22, 2012, 05:12:08 AM »
Getstewart.... I'm surmizing Zman was perhaps a known quantity down at the PD station...from his record, his CC, father's reputation, him calling PD often, and his night watch enthusiasm, etc.  With or without this Zman 'knowledge' they told him to stay put, or stay in his car, or break off and wait for PD.  But he didn't do this and apparently got close enough to the Kid for a scuffles to break out....I say scuffles because this event may be broken down into a few different acts to the whole event.  So I don't know if Zman's defense can  proove he was jumped by The Kid's in a pre-emptive attack or not, but they are claiming the Kid was going for Zman's psitol!  How did the Kid know Zman had a pistol.?  So, Prosecutors will likely claim Zman's actions were 'aggressive', elicited fear in the Kid who stood ground with fear for life. Also, Keep in mind technically the kid was under 18 and still a child.
.
..TM7
.

As usual you are just plain wrong. You distort the facts and toss out BS at every turn. Zimmerman was already on foot when told to not follow. He said OK and there is no evidence yet released to indicate he did other than as told.

Info pieced together from the phone calls indicate he had lost sight of Martin at the point Martin turned right to go to the house he was supposedly staying at. Zimmerman had gone on passed that point and that is when he was told not to follow and said OK and headed back along his path to his vehicle.

Martin then retreated along the path he had previously taken to confront Zimmerman. Supposition is both then walked some short distance to close the gap for whatever reason perhaps to talk. There is a link in one of the threads showing all this if you cared to look.


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Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #107 on: May 22, 2012, 07:38:51 AM »

~~~~~`
r29120....legally the Kid was a child....I don't know exactly what bearing it has on the case at this point.
.
..TM7
You wrote it. ???

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #108 on: May 22, 2012, 07:43:04 AM »
So how would Z be expected to know the age of his attacker ? And what would it matter ? Defense and use of lethal force is based on what is needed to repel an attack , strength and size play bigger roles than age .
But if what GB posted is true and I have no reason not to believe it then even a charge of manslaughter would not stick.
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Offline finisher

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #109 on: May 22, 2012, 08:14:36 AM »
In the end of all the legal preceedings, I think that the only thing of which Z will be found guilty is being a stupid jackass.
 
We could never build enough jails in a thousand years if these two faults were actual crimes.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #110 on: May 22, 2012, 08:31:22 AM »
How does this work? If he's on trial for second degree murder and he's found not guilty, is he free? Or can they get him on manslaughter or something else?
 
Assuming he's freed on that charge, when does the rioting begin nationwide? 24, 36, or 48 hours after the verdict is read?

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #111 on: May 22, 2012, 08:34:45 AM »
If the state sets him free the feds may acuse him of violating civil liberties or the parents mat accuse him of a wrongful death or both......................
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Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2012, 09:54:31 AM »
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So how would Z be expected to know the age of his attacker ? And what would it matter ? Defense and use of lethal force is based on what is needed to repel an attack , strength and size play bigger roles than age .
But if what GB posted is true and I have no reason not to believe it then even a charge of manslaughter would not stick.
.
Z wouldn't know the Kid's age, but that might not be any excuse in the eyes of the law. Need to ask an attorney.  As for the phone calls by Z it appears the first contact was made from his SUV, but after leaving SUV was told to break off tracking the Kid.  Don't forget the phone call with the Kid's girlfriend on the line when the Kid was knocked down by Z as she is claiming and she claims the Kid was running (walking fast) to get away from some guy following him.
Now it appears the prosecution may have 3 wittnesses stating the screams for help were the Kid's ...not Zman.
Additionally, it appears that prosecution has quite a file on Z's racially motivated actions from associates, workmates, etc.
.
Meanwhile:...these guys might be called to testify:

March 21st: “Stand Your Ground” Authors Say Law Doesn’t Apply To Trayvon Martin Shooter
Two lawmakers who crafted the Stand Your Ground Law say the measure doesn’t apply to the shooter of Trayvon Martin, a Miami teen shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer, and he should face charges.
“He has no protection under my law,” said Former Sen. Durell Peaden, one of the law’s authors, The Miami Herald reported. “They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid.”
“When the Legislature passed this in 2005, I don’t think they planned for people who would go out and become vigilantes or be like some weird Batman who would go out and kill little kids like Trayvon,” the newspaper quoted Sen. Oscar Braynon (D-Miami Gardens) as saying.
Baxley said there is nothing in the law that allows people to pursue and confront people.
“There’s nothing in the Florida law that allows him to follow someone with a d*** gun,” said Peaden.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
We all kind wish this was a simple self-defense case, but maybe its not; and as we see anything can happen in cases like this.
.
...TM7
 
So what if he's a racist. That doesn't change a thing. The fact is, blacks cause more violent crimes than whites. If your true to yourself, you get sick of them too. Be honest, not PC. AND HE'S NOT A KID!!!!!!

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #113 on: May 22, 2012, 10:00:19 AM »
judge the man on the action he took not the color of the attacker or you are no better than the lynch mob after Z.
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Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #114 on: May 22, 2012, 10:08:39 AM »
judge the man on the action he took not the color of the attacker or you are no better than the lynch mob after Z.
Blacks cause more violent crimes, It's not my fault it's theirs. And it's a fact. The only way that statistic is going to change is if they do. Quit having a bleeding heart for them, they cause their own problems.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #115 on: May 22, 2012, 10:13:02 AM »
So you judge all at one time not each on their own ? I don't have a bleeding heart trust me ! but I do believe in our justice system and each man gets a trial no matter the color.
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Offline r29l20

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #116 on: May 22, 2012, 10:19:14 AM »
No no, not at all, what I'm saying is he was probably getting fed up with all the break ins, and was frustrated when he saw him poking around. People do get sick of them violating us. If the people causing trouble in your area were blue, you would get upset if you saw a smurf poking around.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2012, 10:23:43 AM »
I get sick of it also , but that does not give me the right to kill someone . The castle doctrine or the stand your ground laws don't give it either.
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Offline Old Fart

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2012, 10:42:41 AM »
Let's try and stay on topic.
 
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Offline Casull

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Re: Prosecution in Martin/Zimmerman case releases bundle of evidence
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2012, 10:47:56 AM »
Quote
I get sick of it also , but that does not give me the right to kill someone .

 
 
 
No, but if that someone is on top of you pounding your head into the pavement, then you do have that right.
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