Contender in 25 ACP

[Crooked Creek]

 Does anyone have experience with the 25 ACP in a TC Contender (or any other long barrel firearm)? I just acquired an MGM 15" barrel in 25 ACP with 10" twist from Ed's Contenders and am looking for info on loading data...bullets, powders, etc.. So far, I have struck out with every attempt on various forums. I have a six cavity Lee mold coming that throws a 50 grain plain base bullet.

[spinafish]

just use data from one of the powder companies..not many of those out there for there to be much separate info...

[Ladobe]

 1   
I have to agree, there's not going to be much data, if any, beyond what's in regular manuals or from powder companies for standard handguns.   While it might appeal to some, I doubt many folks would even bother with a 25ACP TC Contender and probably just see it as a novelty with around 20 other 25's for the Contender that will far out shine the 25ACP in a long handgun barrel.    And at least some of them could be easily downloaded for a 25 Pop Gun if wanted, making them more versatile.
 
None of that means that barrel can't be a lot of fun though... no recoil, probably no muzzle blast to speak of and accurate enough for plinking and small vermin.   Would be interesting to see how it works out for you - please keep us posted.
 
L.
 
 
 

[Crooked Creek]

 The novelty side of it is what appealed to the experimentor in me. Since the Contender can take much higher pressures than the typical 2" barreled (and small) autos, my thinking is to use a little bit slower burning powder than the manuals typically list. While the 25 ACP case is tiny, it can hold more powder than shown in the manuals. I'm thinking with the 15" barrel I should be able to get 1200-1500 FPS with the 50 grain cast bullet from the six cavity Lee mold I have coming. I think it could make a heck of a good squirrel and small game gun out to 50-75 yards.
 But, sadly, I think you are correct...I'm not going to find anything and I'm going to have to develop the data on my own. If any interest is shown here in this project, I will certainly post some results somewhere down the road.
 Thanks for the input,
 Roger

[Lonegun1894]

My first instinct is to ask why, but then again, I try some odd stuff with my guns too so I understand the tinkerer mentality.  I think you're right about the utility for small game, but I'm not sure about the velocity you're hoping for.  My mom used to have a little .25 Lorcin (which I told her not to buy even as a 12yr old kid back then) which was actually surprizingly accurate and I took some rabbits with it back then just to see if it could be done.  Accuracy was good and it actually shot to the sights, but reliability was a nightmare.  This does seem like it would have some definite potential in the accuracy dept I would guess to at least 50yds, so I'd like to hear about your results.  I dont think it will do anything that a .22 wont, but it does sound like a fun toy and it is definitely unique.

[Ladobe]

Roger,
I didn't own over 220 barrels for all my Contenders over the years by staying within the "norm" by any means.   Many of mine where project barrels "just to see what I could get out of them", and a truck load of wildcats.   Some were nightmares to find long discontinued parent brass for, some to form it for, but best I can remember they all were not that hard to figure out loads for.   Some were OK but somewhat disappointing, but most were dandy barrels that I got a lot of enjoyment out of shooting and hunting with.   Was also kind of fun to be at the range and have folks come over and ask what the hay I was shooting, what kind of brass is that, etc (the 25-21 & 25-25 Stevens comes to mind).   Ballistically they mostly had more modern equals as well as those that far out shined them, but they were unique and I learned a lot by fiddling around with them.   Personally I would up the ante on powder as far as the brass can handle it and shoot jacketed rifle "spitzers" in the 25ACP case in various weights to see what it did the best with rather than just cast, but that's just me.    That 10 twist barrel ought to stabilize up to 100gr bullets if you can drive them fast enough.   A straight walled Minnie Whisper of sorts. 

[jlwilliams]

If I had been offered that barrel, I'd have grabed it too.  25acp from a 15" barrel Contender?  Why not.  You probably won't find much data out there, but in a year or few you will be the source for such info.
 
  A guy on weaponsguild converted a 22 bolt action rifle to 25acp.  It was a heck of a process converting the breach bolt from rimfire to centerfire, but aside from than it was a fairly straight forward project.  Rebarreled it and adapted some pistol mags to feed it.  I'll see if I can find his thread and pm him to ask if he's loading and if so, what sort of data he's worked up.
 
  Should be a fun little gun.  You will certainly get quite a few rounds per pound of powder and pound of lead.

[wiley]

A consideration is bore size. 25acp is .251", where most 25 cal bullets are .257". The 25 Stevens rimfire was a .251" bore.....

[Ladobe]

Yeah I was pretty much toasted when I wrote that last night.       Me bad - ignore.   

[Lonegun1894]

Ladobe,
I personally think you were on to something, but I would combine your idea with Crooked Creeks.  I personally like cast bullets over jacketed for many applications, and also like the heavy for caliber bullets, so maybe a .251" rifle weight bullet mold is what this project calls for to complete the whole package.  I think there's potential.  I mean, even if this was used as a "whisper" with mouse fart loads, a 100gr bullet moving at 4-500fps would be great for a lod of my pest control around the house.  And the Contender seems handier than the .303 Enfield I currently use with cat sneeze loads.

[Crooked Creek]

I'm not sure yet what the bore diameter is. When I ordered the barrel I assumed (I know, I know!) it would be .251", so I ordered a .252" push through sizer die kit from Lee along with the six cavity 50 grain mold. I have several questions emailed to MGM, one of which is bore diameter, another is their reasoning behind the 10" twist. If I don't get answers soon, I'll just make a chamber and bore cast myself, while I may still have time to change the order at Lee Precision. If it ends up being .257", I have two Lyman molds....a 65 and a 100 grain, (both gas check designs) that I use for a 256 Win. Mag. Marlin model 62 and a Win. model 94 in 25-35. And I already have .257" sizer dies for my Lyman and RCBS sizer/lubricators, so I'm fixed in that department. I'm going to order a set of Lee loading dies in 25 ACP, and I'm not sure they (or any other brand for that matter) or the case and chamber could accomodate a .257" diameter bullet. If it turns out to be .251", and I want to shoot jacketed bullets, Hornady makes a dandy 35 grain hollow point in .251" that would probably take a squirrel's head off (no penetration though) at the velocities I should be able to get out of the 15" barrel.
P.S. to Ladobe, I only have a "few" TC barrels, but I can relate to what you are saying.....one of them is a 7mm Supermag, talk abot a fun case to form with it's [what?] 1/8" long neck!
  Roger

[Crooked Creek]

 Just saw Lonegun's reply. I definitely plan to play around with some mouse fart loads in that 400-500 FPS range for the back yard, I'm betting you could hardly hear them. I doubt they would be any louder than my 1100 FPS .177 pellet gun.
 If the barrel is .251", I may still try the 65 and 100 grain bullets, sans gas checks, run through the .252" Lee sizer. I know the 10" twist will stabilize them.

[Ladobe]

If the barrel is chambered for the 25ACP. it will use .251 bullets for sure.   Was a brain phart on my part after too many glasses of apple pie last night - sorry to mislead you.   
 
You'll be pretty much SOL on store bought heavier bullets for a 25ACP.   And 35's to 50's or so is all you would probably find standard tools for.   Might be you could have Corbin, Saeco, etc make up the tools to mold/swage longer/heavier, but that would be costly.
   
So I'd guess what you already have planned is probably the way to go.   As I said, it ought to be fun enough and get some jobs done good enough.