War - what is it good for?

[Nuke41]

6 million dead jews (actually reduced to less than 4 million officially)
...TM7

And the reference for that is?

.
 Jewish holocaust authorities themselves.  Look it up::
.
 May 1945: The Soviet Jewish anti-Fascist Committee announced that the number gassed at Auschwitz was 4,00,000;

 September 1998: Director of Holocaust studies, Yeduha Bauer of Yad Vashem, Holocaust Center at Jerusalem, set the number of deaths at Auschwitz at 1,600,000;

 1989: Professor Raul Hilberg, Professor of Holocaust Studies -Tel Aviv, Israel - lists the Auschwitz total at 1,250,000;

 July, 1990: Polish Historians replace the Auschwitz plaque  with a new one stating that those who died of all causes & of all nationalities is 1.5 mil.
.
...TM7

You do realize that the Holocaust occurred at places other than Auschwitz, don’t you?  So you justify saying the Jewish Holocaust death toll is 2 million less “officially” because you pick statements about a single death camp?  How about you provide a reputable source that says the Jewish death toll during the Holocaust is 4 million instead of the usual range of 5 to 6 million dead?
 

[scotsman]

I always get a chuckle out of the proponents of war.Those usually old overwieght chest beaters that are so sure that more and harder fought war is the answer. Today is Memorial Day and I assure you there is not one person in a grave anywhere on earth who died in a war that would advocate for another one. I always wonder did they ever see anyone pick shrapnell out of themself until the day they died? Ever see a thirty caliber bullet scar on someone they loved? Ever see what a bayonet scar looked like? Ever see what naplam does to people who where just lucky enough to live? Ever see bodies stacked like sandbags to stop bullets around a trench? Walk on the dead when the ground is covered with bodies? Seen a friend in the wire with 15 feet of guts trailing behind? War is not the grand sweep of politics and valorous gallantry in the service of all that is right and good. War is not fought against evil, it is an evil in and of itself. It is a million or whatever the number of people involved, all trying to survive. In the end it is all they on which ever side fight for, to survive the hell they find themselves in.  America is full of veterans who have served their time in hell, find one and talk to them. Most will tell you things about war, their indivdual war, if they believe you really care, if they believe you really what to understand. Most of them wish someone did want to listen .

[Cuts Crooked]

I always get a chuckle out of the proponents of war.Those usually old overwieght chest beaters that are so sure that more and harder fought war is the answer. Today is Memorial Day and I assure you there is not one person in a grave anywhere on earth who died in a war that would advocate for another one. I always wonder did they ever see anyone pick shrapnell out of themself until the day they died? Ever see a thirty caliber bullet scar on someone they loved? Ever see what a bayonet scar looked like? Ever see what naplam does to people who where just lucky enough to live? Ever see bodies stacked like sandbags to stop bullets around a trench? Walk on the dead when the ground is covered with bodies? Seen a friend in the wire with 15 feet of guts trailing behind? War is not the grand sweep of politics and valorous gallantry in the service of all that is right and good. War is not fought against evil, it is an evil in and of itself. It is a million or whatever the number of people involved, all trying to survive. In the end it is all they on which ever side fight for, to survive the hell they find themselves in.  America is full of veterans who have served their time in hell, find one and talk to them. Most will tell you things about war, their indivdual war, if they believe you really care, if they believe you really what to understand. Most of them wish someone did want to listen .

We call that Surrender Monkey thinking.
 
BTW, Vets that have really been in hell.......generally WON'T talk to you about it.

[nw_hunter]

I always get a chuckle out of the proponents of war.Those usually old overwieght chest beaters that are so sure that more and harder fought war is the answer. Today is Memorial Day and I assure you there is not one person in a grave anywhere on earth who died in a war that would advocate for another one. I always wonder did they ever see anyone pick shrapnell out of themself until the day they died? Ever see a thirty caliber bullet scar on someone they loved? Ever see what a bayonet scar looked like? Ever see what naplam does to people who where just lucky enough to live? Ever see bodies stacked like sandbags to stop bullets around a trench? Walk on the dead when the ground is covered with bodies? Seen a friend in the wire with 15 feet of guts trailing behind? War is not the grand sweep of politics and valorous gallantry in the service of all that is right and good. War is not fought against evil, it is an evil in and of itself. It is a million or whatever the number of people involved, all trying to survive. In the end it is all they on which ever side fight for, to survive the hell they find themselves in.  America is full of veterans who have served their time in hell, find one and talk to them. Most will tell you things about war, their indivdual war, if they believe you really care, if they believe you really what to understand. Most of them wish someone did want to listen .

Ain't it the truth?

[nw_hunter]

 
We call that Surrender Monkey thinking.
 
BTW, Vets that have really been in hell.......generally WON'T talk to you about it.





Who is we? " BTW" I speak to fellow veterans often about their  experiences in battle, and most will talk about it. They just don't like to bring it up in front of non military.Not sure they can understand! Haven't heard that surrender Monkey thing!The morning coffee group I meet with on a daily basis is the Korean to VN age vet. We cover Army, Navy, Marines and Air force in the gang, and not a war monger among us. Once In a while we do get one of those chest beaters stop by and spew a while.I guess they look at us as one of those Surrender Monkeys

[Cuts Crooked]

 
We call that Surrender Monkey thinking.
 
BTW, Vets that have really been in hell.......generally WON'T talk to you about it.





Who is we? " BTW" I speak to fellow veterans often about their  experiences in battle, and most will talk about it. They just don't like to bring it up in front of non military.Not sure they can understand! Haven't heard that surrender Monkey thing!The morning coffee group I meet with on a daily basis is the Korean to VN age vet. We cover Army, Navy, Marines and Air force in the gang, and not a war monger among us. Once In a while we do get one of those chest beaters stop by and spew a while.I guess they look at us as one of those Surrender Monkeys

Think about it for a little bit. What percentage of the population are vetereans?
Seriously cuts in too the number of people who can get a vet to speak with them regarding their war experiances.......

[mcbammer]

Looked   up  a  ole   friends name   on  the  Vietnam  Memorial   Wall   today  .   Only   the   good   die   young.

[ironglow]

  Back to the thread.. What is war good for ?  War is not "good" but some times it is inevitable..
 
         THe real question is;  What is your alternative...capitulation ?   answer please.
 
 
  Don't ask what war is good for..ask instead, how much is freedom worth ?  The freedom to own land, run a business, worship as you please and have guns to call your own..
 
....And these freedoms, are just for starters.

[scotsman]

  Back to the thread.. What is war good for ?  War is not "good" but some times it is inevitable..
 
         THe real question is;  What is your alternative...capitulation ?   answer please.
 
 
  Don't ask what war is good for..ask ionmstead how much is freedom worth ?  The freedom to own land, run a business, worship as you please and have guns to call your own..
 
....And these freedoms, are just for starters.

You are absolutely right war is not good. It is sometimes inevitable, inevitable because of politics by other means for the most part. Soldiers who actually do the fighting in wars are a minority, most soldiers are support,"in the rear with the gear". Those that do the dieing and the killing do so because they have no alternative. There is not one soldier under incoming artillery fire, or in a hot fire fight that ever thought of the worth of freedom. Ever. They fight with the single mindedness of surviving, killing the gook on the the hill before he kills you and that gook is trying his best to kill you for the same reason. Those that live and learn become good at it, killing the enemy in large numbers is the best means of survival.

[scotsman]

I always get a chuckle out of the proponents of war.Those usually old overwieght chest beaters that are so sure that more and harder fought war is the answer. Today is Memorial Day and I assure you there is not one person in a grave anywhere on earth who died in a war that would advocate for another one. I always wonder did they ever see anyone pick shrapnell out of themself until the day they died? Ever see a thirty caliber bullet scar on someone they loved? Ever see what a bayonet scar looked like? Ever see what naplam does to people who where just lucky enough to live? Ever see bodies stacked like sandbags to stop bullets around a trench? Walk on the dead when the ground is covered with bodies? Seen a friend in the wire with 15 feet of guts trailing behind? War is not the grand sweep of politics and valorous gallantry in the service of all that is right and good. War is not fought against evil, it is an evil in and of itself. It is a million or whatever the number of people involved, all trying to survive. In the end it is all they on which ever side fight for, to survive the hell they find themselves in.  America is full of veterans who have served their time in hell, find one and talk to them. Most will tell you things about war, their indivdual war, if they believe you really care, if they believe you really what to understand. Most of them wish someone did want to listen .

We call that Surrender Monkey thinking.
 
BTW, Vets that have really been in hell.......generally WON'T talk to you about it.

Surrender Monkey Thinking? How so? Peoplle really have bullet wounds. There are bayonet scars, the dead do have entrails spilled on the ground. Naplam causes horrible burns. Horrible death is everywhere, horrible death is war. If veterans don't want to talk to you it is because they mostly don't feel they can trust your reaction to what they have seen and done. It is true that many will not want to talk about things they consider too outside the pale of polite society. But if you establish trust and truely want to understand their experiences, most do want talk, to explain what really happens in war. They carry it with them everyday it never goes away.

[Cuts Crooked]

We call that Surrender Monkey thinking.
 
BTW, Vets that have really been in hell.......generally WON'T talk to you about it.

Surrender Monkey Thinking? How so? Peoplle really have bullet wounds. There are bayonet scars, the dead do have entrails spilled on the ground. Naplam causes horrible burns. Horrible death is everywhere, horrible death is war. If veterans don't want to talk to you it is because they mostly don't feel they can trust your reaction to what they have seen and done. It is true that many will not want to talk about things they consider too outside the pale of polite society. But if you establish trust and truely want to understand their experiences, most do want talk, to explain what really happens in war. They carry it with them everyday it never goes away.

 
Missed my point did you? Using those things as an excuse to avoid war, even a "just war" (if there is such a thing) is ducking out.....trying to avoid the dirty part of staying free. They are not pretty or good, but they are a reality if our loved ones are to be protected and our nation to remain free.
 
The willingness to fight in spite of those horrors is why some men are called heros, and others are ......well.......surrender monkeys. As someone else noted what is the alternative? Capitulation?

[finisher]

..."surrender monkey"   really? The attitudes always seem to be of one EXTREME or another, black and white, clear concise lines of standard and behavior.
 
I never "ducked out" of anything and yet I'll tell you that war is just good business. I'll tell you that it should be avoided by all means short of repelling an invasion with the sole intent of genocide or swift and absolute conquest of this soil.
 
Just my opinion, but I have yet to see anything resembling or even building up to circumstances of that degree. I never agreed with the policies of our government during the entire duration of my military service. Yet never did I dissent or undermine the chain of command. 
 
I did my time and then some and I tell you that I am ashamed of MY AMERICAN PEOPLE. Ignorant and blind are they; bloodthirsty as any evil in the world which they so fervently fear.
 
Call me a "surrender monkey" to my face and from a prone position you will see just how much I "capitulate".
 
Say it to any other vet that feels the same way about the pursuit of peace (they don't get the news coverage or interviews) and they might not show as much restraint.
 
Many of them are not so fowardly open because they are tired of listening to brainwashed people who complain from the confines of their rural bubbles.
 
They have been at the forefront of the lies and many have found that it is almost futile to combat the extensive mental and psychological CONDITIONING of the TV tube or the media to which the American people voluntarily subject themselves.
 
It's good for business (and staying alive when your backs up against the wall) but mostly... it's good for business.
 
I have a whole family of vets spanning four generations most of them combat vets. And no, they don't easily open up. Some break out in tears. Grown men. All have said that they'd do it again but not becuase they believed in the "cause", but like myself, because they took an oath and made a commitment.
 
And still every one advocates peace. These people are not ..."monkeys", "capitulators".
 
I find the ridiculing and name calling of those who would call for peace while standing in the face of a supposedly EMINENT "evil of the world" quite disturbing. I wonder how long it will be before people like that end up being publicly crucified.
 
Oh... wait. That has already been done to another who called for peace and change while standing in the face of certain death. Now there was a guy who certainly could never have been accused of "ducking out" or "capitulating".
 
Stood his ground peacefully to the very end...,yep, for what he believed; and he did it having never fired a shot or raising a finger in violence.
 
Imagine that... or imagine a thousand , no a million people doing the same. How long do you think the slaughter would go on?
 
Well, there is the real test of ones so called beliefs. Of course it could be just a story in a book thrown together by many different hands over the course of a couple thousand years.
 
It is 2:51 AM here on the west coast. As I write this I think of those fallen who I've known. I salute them and honor their memory not with the spew of further death and perpetuated hatred and FEAR, but with hope; by speaking my mind from a point of view that has been not just where they've been, but where many who live in a bubble of fear have not.
 
If I could give my life to open the eyes of those who let the "machine" influence them and do their thinking for them(while it keeps them convinced that their minds are free ) I would do it.
 
Word of advice;  so called "surrender monkeys" and "capitulators"... vets...who have walked the line and have said "NO MORE" aren't afraid of a fight and you certainly don't want to push one into a corner. They've earned the right to say what ever they feel and not be ridiculed.
 
And in doing so by speaking of peace is only to honor the fallen in hope that we as a humanity will one day say "no more shall fall".
 
Untill then...it's BUSINESS as usual.
 
Comrades and shipmates, leathernecks and swabs... I love you... and I miss you.
 
 

[ironglow]

Finisher;
  You seem to be laboring under a couple misapprehensions;
 
  A) That anybody wants or welcomes war:
   War takes too many lives, cripples families and costs treasure for most families.  We cannot operate under any delusion that war is positive
 
  B) We should avoid any contact with the enemy prior to having the homeland physically invaded:
       Frankly, that is 18th century thinking, when we had 3,000 miles of ocean seperating us from land armies which were moved by sailing ships.  By the time of Pearl Harbor, it became evident that to wait and delay until the enemy already controls the sky overhead..may be fatal.  This is only markedly graphic in these days of nuclear weapons, ICBMs and cyber warfare.
  Pres Reagan was a thorough believer in "peace through strength"..a powerful military at the ready..is the best deterrent to any foolish adventures by tyrants.
 
 C) You seem to have a problem with the word "capitulator"..Nevil Chamberlain was a capitulator...and what did he gain for Great Britain ?  He gained a war they may have avoided.
  When we are struck by a fanatically determined enemy who WILL NOT quit, such as at Pearl Harbor or the World Trade Center, we have ONLY a choice of 2 options..fight or capitulate..that's it !  Not hard to figure out !
   
  Then you come out wrapping your opinions in the cloak of Christ..is that not a bit melodramatic ?
 
A couple quotes from you, with a couple added comments/questions..:
 
 1) " I did my time and then some and I tell you that I am ashamed of MY AMERICAN PEOPLE. Ignorant and blind are they; bloodthirsty as any evil in the world which they so fervently fear."
    Many of us "did our time", are we not all allowed divergent opinions without being called "ignorant, blind and bloodthirsty ?
 
2) " Many of them are not so fowardly open because they are tired of listening to brainwashed people who complain from the confines of their rural bubbles"
     Just what pray tell, is meant by "RURAL BUBBLES" ?
   We realize by your own words, that you live in the pompous precincts of the "avant Guarde" Left Coast..   But perhaps you can further elucidate those of us who are so benighted, that we choose to live in the misty "dark ages" which sit like a fog, enveloping our "flyover country"..
 
  INDEED, Please inform us..  What is a "RURAL BUBBLE" ?

 

[Cuts Crooked]

I'm going to assume that he doesn't see the absolute over the top irony in his "speech".

[Nuke41]

Look it up Nuke...in 1948 they claimed 6 million...then when jewish holocaust scholars reduced the Auschwitz number, they claimed the 6 million number from elsewhere.......TM7

I did a search about the 4 million number and this popped up right near the top, is this where you get the 4 million number?
 
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/holofour.php?q=holofour.php
 
Is this one of your primary sources for the things you post on GBO?  I looked at their other pages and its oddly the exact same stuff you post here.
 
 

[magooch]

Boy, does anyone else hope that we don't have to depend on the "avoiders" when the next threat rears it's ugly head against our country?  I guess they assume that all the rest of the world is made up of peaceniks and love and roses.
 
That's not in any sense meant to say that I agree with all the conflicts this country has engaged in have been completely justified.  We as individuals don't get to make those choices--no more than individuals in those parts of the world that have and will threaten us.
 
Of course war is terrible--as it should be--and it should be avoided, but not at all cost.  I draw the line at loosing one iota of our freedom, our way of life and our independence.  And I fully realize that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.  That's just the way it is.

[Nuke41]

As a Team Zio player if you want this thread to be a holocaust study-antisemitism thread..I'm no too interested.
....TM7

You were the one that started it by and claiming a historically unsupported figure as "official”, refused to cite a reference, resorted to name calling by saying I am “Team Zio” and now you’re not “interested” in the issue anymore when pressed.  Maybe you should keep your “facts” in the conspiracy theory page where they belong.

[ironglow]

  I'm still wondering what a "Rural bubble" is..perhaps finisher can stoop to inform us...
 
   Then we have this quote from Finisher:
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
   " I did my time and then some and I tell you that I am ashamed of MY AMERICAN PEOPLE. Ignorant and blind are they; bloodthirsty as any evil in the world which they so fervently fear."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
    Hey; that sounds a lot like somebody else we know.....

[Cuts Crooked]

Well, I just got home a while ago from a day of visiting with heros at the VA hospital. It's Memorial Day and while I feel that it good to honor the fallen, I felt that spending some time with those who paid , perhaps, a greater price was appropriate.

They fought for your freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ironglow]

Well, I just got home a while ago from a day of visiting with heros at the VA hospital. It's Memorial Day and while I feel that it good to honor the fallen, I felt that spending some time with those who paid , perhaps, a greater price was appropriate.

They fought for your freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  Amen, Cuts i was with my legion post, honoring veterans at 2 local cemeteries...

[Doublebass73]

Well, I just got home a while ago from a day of visiting with heros at the VA hospital. It's Memorial Day and while I feel that it good to honor the fallen, I felt that spending some time with those who paid , perhaps, a greater price was appropriate.

They fought for your freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
  Amen, Cuts i was with my legion post, honoring veterans at 2 local cemeteries...

X2 guys, on this Memorial Day I'd much rather focus on honoring those who gave all than debating the reasons for war.

I marched with the Cub Scouts in our parade. My oldest daughter is in the high school band who also marched. We march from the church to the cemetery and have a prayer and ceremony at the cemetery to honor the fallen.

After the ceremony all of the veterans who marched go around the whole cemetery with the Cub Scouts and Girls Scouts and place flags at the graves of veterans. It was quite moving to see my son, who is in Scouts paired up with a Korean War veteran placing flags at graves.

[rio grande]

mcwoodduck said (post 29)...

"No But I remember how the Romans ended the Punic Wars.  They totaled Carthage and razed the city to the last brick and salted the fields so they would no longer be a power.
I remember how the Isrealites ended the conquest of Palistine in Exodus.
Every so often I see a group of older people all dressed in Black gather in Pacifica and protest the war.  What they do not realize is that by protesting the war they are emboldening our enemies and they get more soldiers killed.
If you read military history read Gen Giap's memories, the Hippy peace movement had him cancel his surender and sueing for peace and encouraged him to attack and press on killing about 20,000 more US servicemen about 250,000 to 400,000 NVA and about half a million civilians targets by the Communists."


If winning a war means we have to "raze the city" and/or copy the Israelite conquest of Canaan - and don't be euphemistic about it, say what you mean - "kill every man woman and child" because that's what happened in those places...
if winning a war meant I had to do that I'd rather lose the war.

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Matthew 16:26

And as far as war deaths are concerned, there would be no U.S. casualities of the Vietnam 'war' and a lot less dead VN if we had not sent troops over there in the first place to prop up unpopular dictators.  And without a proper, legal Declaration of War.
Or if the U.S. government had listened to the anti-war crowd and got out a lot sooner in a dignified way.
But of course you hawks had your way, and dragged out a senseless war even when any kid on the street knew we wouldn't win.
And now.... who's our best friend over there, our trading partner....'Communist' Vietnam.  So why did all those people die?

[ironglow]

  From Rio grande;
  "
And as far as war deaths are concerned, there would be no U.S. casualities of the Vietnam 'war' and a lot less dead VN if we had not sent troops over there in the first place to prop up unpopular dictators.  And without a proper, legal Declaration of War."
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
  A bit of historical addendum you may not be familiar with..
      Look up S.E.A.T.O...study our obligations and and pledge to it.  If that doesn't help you to understand..then start cussing out JFK for venturing into the involvement.

[nw_hunter]

OK! We have stopped our debating and turned it into mud slinging,personal arguing again!
Lets get it back on topic if there's anything new to add, or have we covered it all?Anybody have any new thoughts on what war is good for?

[briarpatch]

War is an EXAMPLE of how stupid we are as men to engage in such.
Syria is ready to receive the sons of many in this Country, the lies are working and russia has been paid with oil bearing islands to side with the plan.
Iran is next, the elite are licking their lips and slobbering on them selves.
Fools believe the media and dont know for them selves what is going on.
If you want to know how far we have come, speak out against war and you will draw the ire of dozens. Most dont know when they show their ire it is a trained response they receive from the elite. They (elite) have complete control to send men anywhere they choose, to die for them as they reap the rewards.

[ironglow]

Briarpatch says;
   " War is an EXAMPLE of how stupid we are as men to engage in such"..
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
  Let's look at that statement !  I submit that it is very hollow and extremely simplistic. war is not pleasant, not enjoyable and not what most people want..but it is sometimes necessary.
  Aggressors in this world are like a rampant disease, a disease that has plagued mankind since the dawn of history..beginning with Cain & Abel.  To say that we should never fight a war, is tantamount to saying we should not fight a disease..
   Often times the cure for cancer or other serious conditions can be very painful, but considering the alternatives, the majority choose the painful cure.
  The same can be said when our freedoms or resolve are challenged.  You seem to think that if we had never fought.. we would still be enjoying our freedom under the constitution and Bill of Rights....nothing could be further from the truth. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE !
 
        BTW Finisher;
             Still wondering....What is a "Rural Bubble"?
 


 

[SHOOTALL]

War in the USA was an extension of the war used to expand the white race west from the forest of Germany. It took England then America then it went for Asia. Many American leaders supported the extermination of the American Indian and the indian wars almost did so. The next was the Asians ( T. R. used Japan to kill off many others in an the US military to kill many in the Philippine Islands , the Muslims in the South Islands were killed by the thousands . The wars we fight today in Asia can be traced back to what TR promised Japan , Korea , China and the Phlippines around 1900 but did not come thru. on ( because he had no right to do things he promised and never consulted congress) . Two wars were over the selling of opium to China. It is said that many upper crust American families got rich as drug dealers and The Queen of England was the biggest drug dealer of all time. Most war comes when commerce and religion conflict or race .

[ironglow]

Ditto what Briarpatch and Rio said. To stop wars ...its pretty simple...such expose and stop the psychopathic narcissist running the show.
.
 No people has ever been made freer by war....only the moneychangers.  Eg.... GWOT
.
..TM7

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  So let's stop all diseases the same way, wars and disease are a condition of fallen mankind... 
  Wars were the nature of mankind long before the Aryans developed any 'manifest destiny' plan for the world; which I doubt they had in mind at all anyway.
  It is fashionable among certain not-too-deep thinkers to toss about slogans such as "what is war good for", "war is not the answer" and "make love , not war". 
   Those are all very warm and cozy phrases, but every so often we are hit by a determined enemy who wants to destroy pour way of life..along with our lives.  Often this enemy if successful, would enslave our children is a web not of our choosing .
 
    For instance, the Bushido, Shinto driven forces who attacked Pearl harbor would have had the children of today worshipping an emperor, the nazis who took all Europe, would have our children steeped in Nazism, perhaps many of them dying in concentration camps, the Muslims who tried to destroy us and our econmomy on 9/11 and are still doing their best..would have our daughters in birkas and perhaps some of them stoned to death..and our sons used as mindless robots..
 
   So; when we are attacked by such malevolent and evil forces who are willing to die in attempt to destroy us and our way of life...how would you recommend we handle the situation ?

[finisher]

Briarpatch says;
   " War is an EXAMPLE of how stupid we are as men to engage in such"..
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
  Let's look at that statement !  I submit that it is very hollow and extremely simplistic. war is not pleasant, not enjoyable and not what most people want..but it is sometimes necessary.
  Aggressors in this world are like a rampant disease, a disease that has plagued mankind since the dawn of history..beginning with Cain & Abel.  To say that we should never fight a war, is tantamount to saying we should not fight a disease..
   Often times the cure for cancer or other serious conditions can be very painful, but considering the alternatives, the majority choose the painful cure.
  The same can be said when our freedoms or resolve are challenged.  You seem to think that if we had never fought.. we would still be enjoying our freedom under the constitution and Bill of Rights....nothing could be further from the truth. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE !
 
       BTW Finisher;
            Still wondering....What is a "Rural Bubble"?
 

************ How comprehensive any explanation I may give is completely subject to the receptiveness of the recipient. Receptiveness also being subject to each individuals personal and cognitive experience which may be a wide, objective, and balanced scope of knowledge or through no fault of any individual, alternately may be a narrow, biased and limited scope
 
I make every effort to compose my writings so that they may be taken in context as a WHOLE work (for I feel that all the elements that we discuss, as are all people in this world symbiotic of eachother) and not to be dissected as one piece is nothing without the whole.
 
Please forgive me as I realize that I come across as arrogant and pompous. It is even worse in person and it is something  of which I've had to be aware most of my life. The irony is that I come from a rather humble background  here on the "left coast".
 
The various elements (forgive me for writing in metaphores) that compose the solid "compounds" that are individual people are by themselves just experiences; travels, acquaintences, education, relationships etc.. But put together as a whole, they can form compounds and structure that are as different as gasoline and an open fire.
 
Perhaps the two can never mingle. But these are just metaphores and we are people, so I must have hope.
 
To the "meat", the term "rural bubble" is one I've used to summarize (to myself-guess I should keep it to myself) the state of...how do I put it...? ...physical sequestration (had to dig for that one / I'm not so uppety as you may think). That I have observed in many, even most of the people whom I've met here in rural Oregon, Idaho, and as far as my travels have taken me into the heartland of this country.
 
I completely realize how I come across and it is not my intention to condescend...(well, maybe sometimes ). It's just that I see these regions as a land of milk and honey. The air is clean, there are no waves of people in public places, no traffic. I can go on and on about the differences compared to with from where I come.
 
In Medford, the locol government is all up in arms and running around like Chicken Little, scaring people about the "SERIOUSNESS" of the "GROWING GANG PROBLEM" (I feel, so they can justify their already over inflated budget). And the locals are buying it. You should hear the stories they tell me; They truly fear that someone is going to come and spray paint their barn or try to pimp out their daughters from one set  of  acrage to another.
 
They really think and believe this. It's just a difference of perspective but to me, I see no GANG problem, or any of the other things of which they seem to fear so much. And I wonder to myself, where are they getting all these crazy notions. And they all seem to believe just about ANYTHING they are told to fear so long as it comes from the "right" side.
 
Personally, I've learned to trust no institution of power.
 
Call me what you will; capitulator, fence sitter, leftist, I've heard em all. But I believe in freedom and weather you think it of me or not, I'm one guy that you most definitely want fighting on your side.
 
I'm not going to sit here and run down my personal "dossier" with you. But if I were told that today was my last day I would be satisfied with the life I've been fortunate enough to experience. I've been blessed with the opportunity to see the world from a perspective that most will never know.
 
Unfortunately, I lack the wit and eleoquence required in order to pass on what I've learned in a manner that is compehensible for most. Seems, sometimes like a curse.
 
...war is good for business and at the moment, business is good. Thinking about buying some shares.
 
Peace to you Ironglow.
 
Finisher.

[ironglow]

Briarpatch says;
   " War is an EXAMPLE of how stupid we are as men to engage in such"..
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
  Let's look at that statement !  I submit that it is very hollow and extremely simplistic. war is not pleasant, not enjoyable and not what most people want..but it is sometimes necessary.
  Aggressors in this world are like a rampant disease, a disease that has plagued mankind since the dawn of history..beginning with Cain & Abel.  To say that we should never fight a war, is tantamount to saying we should not fight a disease..
   Often times the cure for cancer or other serious conditions can be very painful, but considering the alternatives, the majority choose the painful cure.
  The same can be said when our freedoms or resolve are challenged.  You seem to think that if we had never fought.. we would still be enjoying our freedom under the constitution and Bill of Rights....nothing could be further from the truth. FREEDOM IS NOT FREE !
 
  BTW Finisher;
         Still wondering....What is a "Rural Bubble"?
 

************ How comprehensive any explanation I may give is completely subject to the receptiveness of the recipient. Receptiveness also being subject to each individuals personal and cognitive experience which may be a wide, objective, and balanced scope of knowledge or through no fault of any individual, alternately may be a narrow, biased and limited scope
 
I make every effort to compose my writings so that they may be taken in context as a WHOLE work (for I feel that all the elements that we discuss, as are all people in this world symbiotic of eachother) and not to be dissected as one piece is nothing without the whole.
 
Please forgive me as I realize that I come across as arrogant and pompous. It is even worse in person and it is something  of which I've had to be aware most of my life. The irony is that I come from a rather humble background  here on the "left coast".
 
The various elements (forgive me for writing in metaphores) that compose the solid "compounds" that are individual people are by themselves just experiences; travels, acquaintences, education, relationships etc.. But put together as a whole, they can form compounds and structure that are as different as gasoline and an open fire.
 
Perhaps the two can never mingle. But these are just metaphores and we are people, so I must have hope.
 
To the "meat", the term "rural bubble" is one I've used to summarize (to myself-guess I should keep it to myself) the state of...how do I put it...? ...physical sequestration (had to dig for that one / I'm not so uppety as you may think). That I have observed in many, even most of the people whom I've met here in rural Oregon, Idaho, and as far as my travels have taken me into the heartland of this country.
 
I completely realize how I come across and it is not my intention to condescend...(well, maybe sometimes ). It's just that I see these regions as a land of milk and honey. The air is clean, there are no waves of people in public places, no traffic. I can go on and on about the differences compared to with from where I come.
 
In Medford, the locol government is all up in arms and running around like Chicken Little, scaring people about the "SERIOUSNESS" of the "GROWING GANG PROBLEM" (I feel, so they can justify their already over inflated budget). And the locals are buying it. You should hear the stories they tell me; They truly fear that someone is going to come and spray paint their barn or try to pimp out their daughters from one set  of  acrage to another.
 
They really think and believe this. It's just a difference of perspective but to me, I see no GANG problem, or any of the other things of which they seem to fear so much. And I wonder to myself, where are they getting all these crazy notions. And they all seem to believe just about ANYTHING they are told to fear so long as it comes from the "right" side.
 
Personally, I've learned to trust no institution of power.
 
Call me what you will; capitulator, fence sitter, leftist, I've heard em all. But I believe in freedom and weather you think it of me or not, I'm one guy that you most definitely want fighting on your side.
 
I'm not going to sit here and run down my personal "dossier" with you. But if I were told that today was my last day I would be satisfied with the life I've been fortunate enough to experience. I've been blessed with the opportunity to see the world from a perspective that most will never know.
 
Unfortunately, I lack the wit and eleoquence required in order to pass on what I've learned in a manner that is compehensible for most. Seems, sometimes like a curse.
 
...war is good for business and at the moment, business is good. Thinking about buying some shares.
 
Peace to you Ironglow.
 
Finisher.

))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
 
  I would venture to say life is not nearly as complicated as you tend to think it is  (at least, IMO)  God has given us natural law as a guide in all things.  What is right and what is wrong is easy to understand....without a set of law books.
  Those who practice evil, get evil in return.. "they who sow the wind..reap the whirlwind'..  (Hosea 8:7) 
 
  Peace to you, Finisher