NJ muslims angry, yes, again.

[powderman]

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=AgohYQflPquHuC3C1HwaeIibvZx4;_ylu=X3oDMTVnOGFpbHQyBGEDRkFDVCBDSEVDSzogT2JhbWEgb2ZmIG9uIHRocmlmdHkgc3BlbmRpbmcgY2xhaW0EY2NvZGUDcHpidWFsbGNhaDUEY3BvcwMzBGcDaWQtMjMwNDAyOARpbnRsA3VzBG1jb2RlA3B6YnVhbGxjYWg1BG1wb3MDNwRwa2d0AzIEcG9zAzEEc2VjA3RkLXBvbARzbGsDdGl0bGUEdGVzdAM3MDEEd29lAzEyNzc1MTUw/SIG=1346c2j4v/EXP=1338165565/**http%3A//news.yahoo.com/fact-check-obama-off-thrifty-spending-claim-231221900.html
 
 
States atty says city police did NOT violate their rights investigasting their mosques. POWDERMAN. 

[SwampThing762]

NYPD Muslim Surveillance In NJ 'Permissible' According To Attorney General Report

NEWARK, N.J. (RNS) Islamic leaders say they are shocked that a review by New Jersey's state attorney general into the New York Police Department's secret surveillance operation targeting Muslim businesses and mosques in New Jersey found the NYPD did nothing wrong.
The three-month probe, ordered by Attorney General Jeffrey Chiesa, concluded there was no evidence to show the NYPD's activities in the state violated New Jersey's civil or criminal laws.
"Based on what we saw, their conduct was permissible," said one of the officials involved with the review who was not at liberty to discuss the report publicly. "There was no evidence of illegal wiretaps or search and seizures. We're not seeing any violations of law."
Members of the Muslim community -- summoned to Trenton on Thursday (May 24) to be briefed on the review -- reacted to the findings with anger and disappointment.
"We thought the AG was on our side," said Aref Assaf, president of the American Arab Forum, who called the revelations at the meeting "stunning and offensive. ... I was ready to walk out."
"American Muslims are easy game right now in New Jersey," Assaf said.
Nadia Kahf, who chairs the New Jersey chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said she and other community leaders are now exploring legal options -- perhaps a lawsuit challenging the six-year-long surveillance of their community.
 "After two months of fact-finding, they have come up with absolutely nothing? No criminal or civil violations? That was very hard to accept," she said.
Ed Barocas, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of New Jersey, questioned the findings as well.
"The New Jersey attorney general's statement that the NYPD violated no New Jersey laws by spying on Muslim houses of worship comes as cold comfort to anyone who found themselves under a microscope based solely on their religious beliefs," he said. "The issue still remains that the police were targeting religious and ethnic minorities, and New Jersey should have no part in enabling the discriminatory practices of the NYPD or any other law enforcement agency."
He said that if New Jersey police departments, which are subject to the state's discrimination laws, were to target people or groups based on religion or ethnicity as the NYPD did, they would be in violation of New Jersey law.
The fact-finding review ordered by the attorney general was sparked by disclosures by The Associated Press that the New York Police Department had been running an aggressive domestic intelligence operation that extended into New Jersey, targeting ethnic communities in Newark, the campus of Rutgers University and elsewhere.
In Newark, the NYPD cataloged every mosque and Muslim-owned business in the city -- from fried-chicken joints to houses of worship located in private homes -- in a 60-page report later obtained by the AP. The report identified the work as "a joint operation with the Newark Police Department's Criminal Intelligence Unit" with the aim of identifying "the existence of population centers and business districts of communities of interest."
Most of the properties listed in the NYPD report were Islamic cultural centers, restaurants and stores where members of Newark's Muslim community went to pray, eat or shop.
NYPD officials have repeatedly defended the program as legal and justified, and have been backed strongly by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who maintains the NYPD can gather intelligence anywhere in the country it wants without any requirement to tell local authorities.
Gov. Chris Christie, questioned at a press conference in Atlantic City, had little to say about the findings.
"I have complete confidence in Attorney General Chiesa. I have every reason to believe that he's correct," the governor said. "I'll leave it at that."
Chiesa said the state did reach an agreement with the NYPD that will "strengthen the lines of communication" between New Jersey law enforcement officials and the city. The attorney general is also planning to establish an outreach committee with the Muslim community.


I think this is the correct article.   If the Muzzies are upset, too bad, so sad.   Perhaps they should police themselves better for extremists.

[Land_Owner]

In Newark, the NYPD cataloged every mosque and Muslim-owned business in the city -- from fried-chicken joints to houses of worship located in private homes -- in a 60-page report later obtained by the AP.

Go ahead...publish that.  The Muslim community is upset?  Cry me a river.  How about acting like a neighbor and assimilating into the American community, rather than pushing your religious and political agenda, like the Black Plague, down the throats of the American People?  You don't belong here and neither does your religion.  The sooner you go back to your sandbox, the better we will like it.  We pick and choose our fights.  This is one we PICK!!!!!

[ironglow]

In Newark, the NYPD cataloged every mosque and Muslim-owned business in the city -- from fried-chicken joints to houses of worship located in private homes -- in a 60-page report later obtained by the AP.

Go ahead...publish that.  The Muslim community is upset?  Cry me a river.  How about acting like a neighbor and assimilating into the American community, rather than pushing your religious and political agenda, like the Black Plague, down the throats of the American People?  You don't belong here and neither does your religion.  The sooner you go back to your sandbox, the better we will like it.  We pick and choose our fights.  This is one we PICK!!!!!

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
 
   #1

[yellowtail3]

In Newark, the NYPD cataloged every mosque and Muslim-owned business in the city -- from fried-chicken joints to houses of worship located in private homes -- in a 60-page report later obtained by the AP.

Go ahead...publish that.  The Muslim community is upset?  Cry me a river. ....We pick and choose our fights.  This is one we PICK!!!!!

Publish it, to... what end? So that our Muslims brothers can can be shown a little Christian Love, Klan-style? What?

[Scibaer]

firstly they are NOT our brothers, they are our ENEMY
 maybe with enough pressure they will stop thier advancement into our culture and country .
i personally dont have a single worry about how much love they feel or dont.
all i want is for them to go back to the cat litter country then came from ..
god bless newark NJ !

[muznut 54]

It would be a great day in America if we could get rid of these musilixums!

[yellowtail3]

firstly they are NOT our brothers, they are our ENEMY

Not according to Jesus

maybe with enough pressure they will stop thier advancement into our culture and country .

Are Muslims advancing into our culture, or are we just being suckered into thinking so by xenophobes and bigots looking for votes?
How is this advancing into our culture manifesting? Do they drink at the same waterfountains & ride front of the bus, or what?

[powderman]

In Newark, the NYPD cataloged every mosque and Muslim-owned business in the city -- from fried-chicken joints to houses of worship located in private homes -- in a 60-page report later obtained by the AP.

Go ahead...publish that.  The Muslim community is upset?  Cry me a river.  How about acting like a neighbor and assimilating into the American community, rather than pushing your religious and political agenda, like the Black Plague, down the throats of the American People?  You don't belong here and neither does your religion.  The sooner you go back to your sandbox, the better we will like it.  We pick and choose our fights.  This is one we PICK!!!!!

 
LAND_OWNER. Well said Sir, I agree. POWDERMAN. 

[Scibaer]

if you dont think they are advancing into our culture , your in denial.
if you cant see how thier presence manifests itself, your a supporter.
infact your questions themselves say alot, they are very pedestrian in nature.
i guess when you dont value what you have, it dont hurt to lose it or give it away.

[muznut 54]

I don't think much of a group people that the best career move they can think of is to become a suicide bomber!

[yellowtail3]

if you dont think they are advancing into our culture , your in denial.

Not, I'm not in denial, I'm not a sucker. Provide some examples of how Muslims are advancing into our culture. Show me something that remotely justifies the hysteria?

if you cant see how thier presence manifests itself, your a supporter.

that's silly. Supporter of what?

infact your questions themselves say alot, they are very pedestrian in nature.

I'm not in tune with the xenophobe echo-chamber, that's true.

Looking forward to some examples of how Muslims are advancing in our society, in such a way as to warrant denying them their civil rights or (as some seem to advocate) deporting or killing them.

WWJD?

[Scibaer]

sharia law

a supporter of a muslim presence in this country

you just really dont understand what will happen when they get a true foothold on US soil

you think you do, but you dont

sharia law

[m-g Willy]

firstly they are NOT our brothers, they are our ENEMY

Not according to Jesus

If you are going to state what YOU  say Jesus said, you need to show where He said it.
To save you time so as you don't have to look up verses to try to twist into your own version of the bible ,,let me just show you who Jesus considers brothers .Gal.3;26=(For you are all sons of GOD through faith in Christ Jesus)
So if someone doesn't have faith in Christ ,,,then they are NOT a brother to christians.
 

[powderman]

firstly they are NOT our brothers, they are our ENEMY

Not according to Jesus

If you are going to state what YOU  say Jesus said, you need to show where He said it.
To save you time so as you don't have to look up verses to try to twist into your own version of the bible ,,let me just show you who Jesus considers brothers .Gal.3;26=(For you are all sons of GOD through faith in Christ Jesus)
So if someone doesn't have faith in Christ ,,,then they are NOT a brother to christians.
 

 
MG_WILLY. Good post, and true. POWDERMAN. 

[Scibaer]

yes, nice rebuttal with the facts there willy.
 christian and musliums been in conflict since, well.. forever more or less.
when i said they were not our ( christian nations ) brothers, i figured that was purty well self evident.
 and i figured that those two words, sharia law, purty much nailed the "how are the musliums advancing into our culture" question.

i mean really , is this even a real debate, like there is some questions about muslium actions or intent ?

[powderman]

i mean really , is this even a real debate, like there is some questions about muslium actions or intent ?

 
Not to most American Christians. POWDERMAN. 

[Scibaer]

yeah i think to most american christians, this debate is a moot point. and to anyone who served or have family that served its a non issue too.  i just cant believe how some people believe , that muslium nations is not a threat and should be welcomed here..
its mind boggling. 

[yellowtail3]

i mean really , is this even a real debate, like there is some questions about muslium actions or intent ?

You'll have to ask a muslium guy.

To all who surf into the site and read this thread - rest assured that not all gun owners are (professed)Christians for whom war with Muslims is part of their religion & worldview... most of us don't want to kick out all Muslims or kill them, it just seems that way, sometimes, but isn't really so.

[powderman]

yeah i think to most american christians, this debate is a moot point. and to anyone who served or have family that served its a non issue too.  i just cant believe how some people believe , that muslium nations is not a threat and should be welcomed here..
its mind boggling. 

 
Good post Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[muznut 54]

Papa Bush was the same way,remember him wanting to save the Somalians and letting a bunch move here and yes Clinton continued his policy and please don't get me wrong I'm not talking about eradication I just want them out of the country!

[kynardsj]

Muslim or whatever else, if you don't like our laws get your butt out and go back to your own country.

[m-g Willy]

i mean really , is this even a real debate, like there is some questions about muslium actions or intent ?

You'll have to ask a muslium guy.

To all who surf into the site and read this thread - rest assured that not all gun owners are (professed)Christians for whom war with Muslims is part of their religion & worldview... most of us don't want to kick out all Muslims or kill them, it just seems that way, sometimes, but isn't really so.

What a joke you are.
You post a reply to -NO ONE-!
I wonder why

[m-g Willy]

firstly they are NOT our brothers, they are our ENEMY

Not according to Jesus

If you are going to state what YOU  say Jesus said, you need to show where He said it.
To save you time so as you don't have to look up verses to try to twist into your own version of the bible ,,let me just show you who Jesus considers brothers .Gal.3;26=(For you are all sons of GOD through faith in Christ Jesus)
So if someone doesn't have faith in Christ ,,,then they are NOT a brother to christians.
 

.
Couple of points.
.

And please show me in the Bible where Christ said we need to kill or eradicate any people, moosilimbs percursor types, or modern day moosilimbs? I'd like to see that., thanx.
~~~~~~~~~~~
 
.
.
.....TM7
 

 
I never said anything about Jesus saying we should kill anyone.
I stated that non believers are not brothers to christians.
And you took it to mean that if you are not a believer than you should be killed.
You're confused ,christians don't think like that.
That's your islamic teachings.
 
 
 

[Scibaer]

i read through these posts and wonder, why would anyone come onto a forum like this ( pro US, pro gun, pro freedom.. you get the idea ) and clearly support Muslim ideals ? in any form or way ? 
and TY3 actually made an apology to any muslims who may be reading this thread..
and i could not care any less if muslims hold jesus and mary in high regard.. that comment, true or not is completely irrelevant to any discussion about thier inflirtation into the US , laws or society morays .

and yes, its does suggest in the bible to kill muslims.

 Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
kill non-believers
 
 They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
 
 Kill Men, Women, and Children
 
 "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple."  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded.  "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!"  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

[DDZ]

About religion....there's only one religion that was anti-christ, rejected him to this day, and publically assassinated him. It wasn't moosilims or moosilimb percursors. In fact, Christ and Mother Mary are held in very very high esteem in moosilimb eschatology.

.....TM7
 


Bit of a difference isn't there, that Muslims believe Christ to be just a messenger not the Son of God and God Himself. Muslims also don't believe in the crucifixion and resurrection, which is a very big difference. To try and relate Islam and Christianity as being similar is going out to the end of the limb. Mary is also one of the most honored people in the Qur'an with her being mentioned many times, while in the Holy Bible she is only mention a few times.   
Christ came to redeem fallen man, and willing died on the Cross for the sins of all mankind, out of love, and to give everlasting life to those who believe. This is not any part of the Islam belief, but its the basis for Christianity. The biggest difference is that Islam threatens people with death if they leave the faith, and Christianity promises people life, if they come to Jesus Christ.   

[yellowtail3]

i read through these posts and wonder, why would anyone come onto a forum like this ( pro US, pro gun, pro freedom.. you get the idea ) and clearly support Muslim ideals ? in any form or way ?

you'll need to identify what constitutes supporting Muslim ideals, before we go any further. Then you can name names, as to whom the supporters are

and TY3 actually made an apology to any muslims who may be reading this thread..

It was the decent thing to do, what you call an apology, lest some visitor get the  impression that American gunowners & hunters are a bunch of idiot xenophobes who can't spell, chomping at the bit for a religious war & claiming allegiance to Christ all at the same time. I'm tired of seeing Christianity getting hijacked by gullible warmongers.

and yes, its does suggest in the bible to kill muslims.

Oh... so much for the Gospel.

[SwampThing762]

In my KJV Bible, Exodus 22:19 says "Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death."

Now, to a couple of points about Islam:

1.    Socially, they push for a separate social system, with their own laws and courts, and push for sharia law to be applied to non-Muslims.   Jews and Christians do not push for a separate, and equal, just system.  We use the system already in place, despite the liberalss and godless ones who legally persecute Christians through the court system.

2.    The Bible says in Exodus 20:13: "Thou shalt not kill".     That statement is very plain to anyone who can read.   The Quran says:

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
 
 2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.
 
 2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.
 
 2:244 Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearer, Knower.
 
 5:33  The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.


The above comparison seems pretty evident to me.   The Islamic sycophants try to compare Christianity to Islam, which is really invalid on its base.   Religions are as varied as people.   When that does not work, they try to tear Christianity down, saying it is responsible for historical injustices.    In all instances, they were not there, and cannot prove it [secondary sources don't count, fellas].     They further claim that Christianity is responsible for modern bloodshed, but there are only 2 modern attacks.

Islam, on the other hand, has the blood of thousands on its hands.     The recent body counts are as follows:

Monthly Jihad Report
April, 2012

Jihad Attacks:	185
Countries:	26
Religions:	5
Dead Bodies:	692
Critically Injured:	1279

Weekly Jihad Report
May . 19 - May. 25

Jihad Attacks:	41
Allahu Akbars*:	5
Dead Bodies:	253
Critically Injured:	529
*Suicide Attacks

 

[DDZ]

About religion....there's only one religion that was anti-christ, rejected him to this day, and publically assassinated him. It wasn't moosilims or moosilimb percursors. In fact, Christ and Mother Mary are held in very very high esteem in moosilimb eschatology.

.....TM7
 


Bit of a difference isn't there, that Muslims believe Christ to be just a messenger not the Son of God and God Himself. Muslims also don't believe in the crucifixion and resurrection, which is a very big difference. To try and relate Islam and Christianity as being similar is going out to the end of the limb. Mary is also one of the most honored people in the Qur'an with her being mentioned many times, while in the Holy Bible she is only mention a few times.   
Christ came to redeem fallen man, and willing died on the Cross for the sins of all mankind, out of love, and to give everlasting life to those who believe. This is not any part of the Islam belief, but its the basis for Christianity. The biggest difference is that Islam threatens people with death if they leave the faith, and Christianity promises people life, if they come to Jesus Christ.   

.
.The above is not accurate and is rather misleading, kinda whiff of brimstone. Jesus is considered by moosilimbs to be a 'messenger' just like Mohammed...Jesus is mentioned 2nd to Mohammed in their Qu'ran  and is called "Messiah',  Redeemer', and a Prophet. Like Mohammed, Jesus came to profess and teach the 'righteous' about the Law of God.   Moosilimbs clearly read and study the NT and OT, but they do consider heavily editorialized these days..  They believe in the virgin birth too, but not the cruxcifixion,, believing that a Jesus' enemies put up a false fascimile of Christ for death and that Jesus lives on.  This is interesting allegorically speaking and akin to Gnostic Christians belief! They believe like any one seeking to spiritually know God that any of the prophets can lead in that direction. Jesus gets the salutorial PBUH designation, of course.... CONTRAST this to any religion that catergorically rejects Christ or holds Christ as an enemy.. Any religious student not dwelling in the Dark Ages can verify this information by simplely plugging Jesus + Moslems into their search engine. As far as I can tell the moosilimbs threaten those they see as traitors, but full encourage spiritual students to study the People of the Book if seeking Truth....that would be Christians, of course.  You need to contrast this to the actual enemies of Christ beliefs.
.
Now before the moosilimb perjoratives start,,, just ask yourself...HOW DID IT HAPPEN?
.
I'm tired of the hyjacking, too.
.
.
...TM7
.

If there is anything that is inaccurate, and misleading, its you trying to link Christianity with Islam. 

[Scibaer]

1. if you try to codify or justify Muslim actions or beliefs , or still , try and give understanding or explanation .. then you are a supporter.
 its one side or the other on this issue and any point of interest relating to it

2. no an apology was not the right thing to do. infact i resent the fact that you could be apologizing for me.
Christianity is not getting highjacked.  its being supported and defended so it shall live on thru us and this country.

3. so much for the gospel ? its says what it say, good or bad whether or not we choose to accept it.
 
4. iam not illiterate ,gullible a xenophobe or a thread highjacker, because my opinion does not cater to the muslim way of life.