alternator swap questions

[keith44]

Hi guys, hoping for some mechanic's cross reference info here.


The wife's mini-van has just ate it's third alternator.  It is a 2003 Ford Windstar.  I really hate the idea of just feeding it another impending roadside breakdown alternator.  Is there an aftermarket or heavy duty (like found in trucks, and service vehicles) type alternator that would bolt in with few if any modifications??


Thanks
Keith

[mechanic]

Maybe but probably not.  Are you replacing with aftermarket rebuilds?  As a long time mechanic, on my personal vehicles I find I'm money ahead to buy OEM for some things.  Starter on my truck lasted 130,000 miles.  Rebuild from parts store lasted 12,000.  New OEM still going strong.
 
Ben

[cwlongshot]

See if you can find a local company that can rebuild yours. It will be cheaper and will likely tell you why yours went so soon...

CW

[keith44]

at $235.00 for a rebuilt unit, and OEM from the local stealer approaching $400.00 I really can't see putting an OEM in it, but you are right, the quality is usually better.


Good idea about the local rebuilders, I'll ask around.


Thanks guys

[Old Syko]

Any local rebuilders you find are going to use the cheapest aftermarket parts, which is the main reason for the difference in price between new OEM and rebuilt to begin with.  Mechanic is telling you right.  It would be wise and cheaper in the long run to heed his word.  Aftermarket rectifiers and other internals aren't worth carrying home.


I repair my own parts and only do so with OEM components.

[cwlongshot]

If you think like me, you don't mind so much spending the extra $$ to have momma a reliable vehicle. But the thoughts of those $$ being good $ after bad is not so appitizing... 

My thoughts where the rebuilder may be able to tell you how where and why your having the problems...

CW

[cwlongshot]

Any local rebuilders you find are going to use the cheapest aftermarket parts, which is the main reason for the difference in price between new OEM and rebuilt to begin with.  Mechanic is telling you right.  It would be wise and cheaper in the long run to heed his word.  Aftermarket rectifiers and other internals aren't worth carrying home.


I repair my own parts and only do so with OEM components.

Altho I have NO doubts SOME builder will do this... But blanketing ALL of them with such a statement is well, not fair. (Also I find it some what offensive and take acception to it)

My brother in law is just such a re builder and the units he re builds, he stands behind with a warrenty, if his re built unit fails for ANY fault of his parts or build HE will replace it, NO questions.. A claim such as this is NOT done of cheap parts... He builds a business on his name and the quality of his work. Just as ANY good businessman.

Just like anything else, a GOOD company will have just such a warrenty...

CW

[blind ear]

The rebuilder that I use repairs heavy equipment and farm equipment. He doesn't use cheap parts. He want's happy customers. He has solved problems by useing different charge set ups when factory wireing kept giving problems. ear

[geezerbiker]

If you're willing to custom build the brackets to mount it, there's no end to the different alternators you could use.  You need to  find one that will fit the space.  After that it's a mater of putting on the correct pulley and brackets.

GM truck alternators tend to be cheap and durable.   Also they are often a 1 wire hook up...

Tony

[keith44]

If you're willing to custom build the brackets to mount it, there's no end to the different alternators you could use.  You need to  find one that will fit the space.  After that it's a mater of putting on the correct pulley and brackets.

GM truck alternators tend to be cheap and durable.   Also they are often a 1 wire hook up...

Tony

If only I were so lucky, multi-pin plug in to the harness, and shares a common mounting point with the power steering pump.  This side ways motor makes it fun to get at too

[mechanic]

On many newer vehicles, the alternator shares integral wiring with other devices, even the ECM.  If you have a good and reputable rebuilder...OK, we don't have one at all here.  Trying to retrofit a late model vehicles conjures up a host of problems.....I've dealt with many.   Older GM alternators were mostly 35 amp output...not nearly enough for computerized systems.
 
Ben

[geezerbiker]

I don't know how old you're talking about.  The 74 Chevy van I had years ago was a base model working truck and had a 55 amp alternator.  The one wire went into the harness but really connected directly to the battery.

Transverse mounted engines are a bitch to work on.  The more I have to deal with my old lady's newer car, the more I like my 78 ford truck.  I replaced the alternator and regulator on it this year because the factory ones were still on it and I figured it would be cheap insurance.   I don't recall what it cost but I went with a all new alternator and the price seemed very reasonable at the time.

Tony

[keith44]

I don't know how old you're talking about.  The 74 Chevy van I had years ago was a base model working truck and had a 55 amp alternator.  The one wire went into the harness but really connected directly to the battery.

Transverse mounted engines are a bitch to work on.  The more I have to deal with my old lady's newer car, the more I like my 78 ford truck.  I replaced the alternator and regulator on it this year because the factory ones were still on it and I figured it would be cheap insurance.   I don't recall what it cost but I went with a all new alternator and the price seemed very reasonable at the time.

Tony

Wife's mini-van is an '03.  I know what you mean about missing the older vehicles, every time I open the hood I miss my '74 International

[geezerbiker]

I've said it many times, I will be driving my 1978 Ford truck until one of us dies...  I also miss my 240Z but for other reasons.

Tony

[Bugflipper]

DB electrical has good alternators. I don't know about one for a windstar but I buy 12 si chevy alternators for scouts and they hold up good. I usually just buy the lowest amp high output model. They are usually beefed up with the better parts but have a more conservative wire wind.
Heres a link to windstar alternators.
http://www.dbelectrical.com/c-5545-windstar.aspx


Just a few things you may want to check. The tension of the belt. If the tensioner pulley isn't working good enough it can cause the alt to work harder and wear out quicker by heating up the diode to much.
Also check the ground wire to the frame. If the frame bolt is loose it can create a surge that will fry the diode or regulator. A lot of times a big pothole will do an alternator in because of that.

[keith44]

How 'bout melting the copper out of one phase??  Yup one set of windings actually failed.  The generator shop installed heavier wire, mil-spec diodes, and heavier bearings.  Bench tested to 14volts @ 145 amps  .  2 year warranty to boot. 


Thanks for the idea cwlongshot!!

See if you can find a local company that can rebuild yours. It will be cheaper and will likely tell you why yours went so soon...

CW

[blind ear]

How 'bout melting the copper out of one phase??  Yup one set of windings actually failed.  The generator shop installed heavier wire, mil-spec diodes, and heavier bearings.  Bench tested to 14volts @ 145 amps  .  2 year warranty to boot. 


Thanks for the idea cwlongshot!!

See if you can find a local company that can rebuild yours. It will be cheaper and will likely tell you why yours went so soon...

CW

-
How did it compare price wise? ear

[cudatruck]

glad u got er problem solved! I was going to recomend a shop, but see u have it handled. Lehr auto electric in Sacramento rebuilt a starter for my '64. Its obsolete and you can't find a replacement. cost was 159 but wow looks and works like a new one. money well spent. One more thing, if your stator windings were burned out. thats a part most rebuilders test but if it checks ok they don't replace it. so in a rebuilt probably an original stator. but, you should check all conections for corrosion because it can also be caused by execessive heat from putting out too many amps all the time.

[Empty Quiver]

OEM new, Reman, and Rebuilt in that order. Reman and Rebuilt are a crapshoot, you are at the mercy of the parts choen and the quality of those parts. Warrenty is a nice thing until you are sitting 75 miles from a street light, at 0200 and the Alt light comes on. Did I mention 13 degrees and Baudette, Mn. is 75 miles away, Red Lake in the mirror?
 
BIL was longtime master tech with GM. He is one to get everything out of a $ but insists on GM OEM when it comes to starters and alternators.

[keith44]

How 'bout melting the copper out of one phase??  Yup one set of windings actually failed.  The generator shop installed heavier wire, mil-spec diodes, and heavier bearings.  Bench tested to 14volts @ 145 amps  .  2 year warranty to boot. 


Thanks for the idea cwlongshot!!

See if you can find a local company that can rebuild yours. It will be cheaper and will likely tell you why yours went so soon...

CW

-
How did it compare price wise? ear

Price was $155.00 compared to elcheapo reman from chain store of $194.00, and OEM quote from local dealer of $437.00 (plus install) both only offered 1 yr warranty.

[cwlongshot]

Glad it has all worked out in your favor!

 Now time will tell if its actually solved. But one thing is for certain there is a far better chance of actually fixing the problem this way.

Your welcome brother,
 CW

[keith44]

... and another one bites the dust!  Windings melted, diode tree charred.  Me smells a shorted wire somewhere.  Two weeks is a pretty short life for an alternator.

[Empty Quiver]

... and another one bites the dust!  Windings melted, diode tree charred.  Me smells a shorted wire somewhere.  Two weeks is a pretty short life for an alternator.

The BIL would say I told you so.   Just funnin' with you sir. you sure have somthing out of the ordinary going on there. The shop that did the alternator might be the best place to take it for a diagnosis. I mean the entire vehicle here. I feel for you throwing ideas and cash at something like this sucks.

[keith44]

the thing that gets me is I watched the bench test, I know it was a good build

[Empty Quiver]

the thing that gets me is I watched the bench test, I know it was a good build

It likely was I think maybe you are onto something thinking there may be a chasis problem not just alternator. Either way I would let the shop check out the unit installed on the vehicle after replacement. Walking away from a broken car is no treat.

[geezerbiker]

Just because it worked for a while, it doesn't mean it was 100% right.  A weak component, something not in the right place or something not properly tightened down and the smoke is let out... 

A failed diode pack alone can seriously melt things in there if a diode fails open both ways.

I'd go back to the guys that rewound it and call in the warranty...

Tony

[keith44]

if this was the first swap I'd point a finger at the alternator, this is number 4 in less than 18 months.  no something is loading them down HARD!!!

[mechanic]

Loading the alternator likely isn't the problem.  A partly open ground or wiring issue probably is.  The alternator output is relative to demand, so even a bad battery can cause issues, though this seems extreme.
 
Have you had someone check the ampere draw under full load?  Do you pull or tow a trailer?  Has anyone checked the battery cables themselves, as well as the ground connection?
 
Has anyone removed any grounding straps or wires from the engine to frame?
 
Ben

[keith44]

Thanks Ben, good thoughts. I checked amp draw this morning, as well as the battery and all the pos. side cables.  Nothing raised a flag.  At idle, a/c set to max, radio on, headlights and driving lights on full draw was 80 amps, at 12.6 volts.  Engine idling and everything off 36 amps at 13.6 volts.

No one that I am aware of has pulled any of the six ground straps, but that's something I can check after work tonight.  Might have one corroded or coming loose.

[keith44]

Oh and no towing, grocery getter only