Author Topic: 38-55 Issues (Read 1240 times)

shinjin · « **on:** June 18, 2012, 04:44:39 AM »

I am having trouble finding the right bullet for mine. Have tried several diff .375, .358 and .359 cast bullets and so far none that have been very accurate, even with different poweders, primers and grains.

Did you have any luck with a particular brand or diameter bullet?

Imean the rifle is sweet. Its got almost no recoil, hits with authority and is a sweetheart to tote, it'd be a shame if I can't get her to shoot.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2012, 11:18:26 AM »

Quote from: shinjin on June 18, 2012, 04:44:39 AM

I am having trouble finding the right bullet for mine. Have tried several diff .375, .358 and .359 cast bullets and so far none that have been very accurate, even with different poweders, primers and grains.

It's not any wonder you're having problems, the 38 in 38-55 means just that, it's not like a 38 cal pistol round, 38-55 bullets need to be at least .377", preferably .379" jacketed in an H&R, .380" or bigger cast bullets IF you can chamber them that big, most H&R 38-55 won't without special reloading steps, or neck reaming, see the 38-55 info in the FAQs, and do a search, it's been discussed hundreds of times over the years. I have had three 38-55 H&Rs, still have two, a .375" bullet will almost drop right thru the bore, so even they're too small. I shoot custom 379" jacketed in mine, or soft .380" cast, hard cast will need to be .381" or .382", but won't likely chamber due to the undersize neck issue which needs to be dealt with either by using short brass(30-30), thinner brass(Starline long), or neck reaming (see FAQs)which is the best option.

Tim

garbhead · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2012, 11:23:30 AM »

To be perfectly honest with you, I have owned 3 different 38-55 rifles and never fired any of them....Couldn't ever locate any factory rounds around here at a reasonable price, then bought all the reloading components and dies, but sold all the components when I sold the other 2 rifles .. All I have left now are the dies....

Jason F · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:11:37 PM »

Both of mine shoot great after neck reaming,long brass and (penn bullets) sized at 379 pushing them at 1600fps

Penn bullet company is in the facts

mauser98us · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:42:15 PM »

I use .375 Winchester brass,.380 cast slugs and the bullet seated just to cover the last grease groove. Mine works great.

dodd3 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2012, 02:26:50 AM »

Quote from: shinjin on June 18, 2012, 04:44:39 AM

I am having trouble finding the right bullet for mine. Have tried several diff .375, .358 and .359 cast bullets and so far none that have been very accurate, even with different poweders, primers and grains.

Did you have any luck with a particular brand or diameter bullet?

Imean the rifle is sweet. Its got almost no recoil, hits with authority and is a sweetheart to tote, it'd be a shame if I can't get her to shoot.

after reading about all the problems people have with the 38/55 i think the best thing to do with them is have the barrel bored out and chambered to 40/65 end of problem jmo.
bernie

petemi · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2012, 03:03:26 AM »

Quote from: shinjin on June 18, 2012, 04:44:39 AM

I am having trouble finding the right bullet for mine. Have tried several diff .375, .358 and .359 cast bullets and so far none that have been very accurate, even with different poweders, primers and grains.

Did you have any luck with a particular brand or diameter bullet?

Imean the rifle is sweet. Its got almost no recoil, hits with authority and is a sweetheart to tote, it'd be a shame if I can't get her to shoot.

One of Tim's rifles and mine are 18 inch twin sisters. I shoot the same bullets Tim does. A .379 213 gr. jacketed shoots very well at 2200+ fps. My groups tightened up with increased velocity........and there certainly is a bit of felt recoil...nothing to flinch from though. Besides using the larger bullets, try picking up the speed. I have had no chambering problems with mine.
Pete

Blackhawker · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2012, 05:14:30 AM »

What I find interesting on the original post is that shinjin never mentioned slugging the barrel.

Shinjin, have you slugged your barrel? You can play around with different sized bullets, powders, and loads all day but if you want to find what works a little faster than doing that, you probably want to run a chunk of lead down the barrel and measure the bore groove diameter. From there, since it's an H&R, you'll have to concern yourself with the chamber size as Tim has suggested that a lot of the H&R's are over-bored and under-chambered. Definitely read the FAQ's on the 38-55. There is a LOT of good information there.

I can tell you this: I have an H&R and a Thompson Contender in this chambering and both are completely different in size. The T/C is a .375 and the Wesson and Harrington (H&R variant) is .3795. I use only cast bullets ranging from 245 to 265 grains in these barrels. I have chronographed some loads ranging from 1650 fps all the way up to 2000 fps with decent accuracy, depending on the powder type. Ironically, the Thompson Contender (with 8 inches of a shorter barrel) maintains better accuracy with heavier loads than the Wesson and Harrington. After a given velocity, the W&H groups tend to open up. That is NOT to say that the W&H is not accurate. It does a fine job at 100 yards with a marbles peep sight. I have fired groups at 1 inch with it.

What does all of this mean?? You're going to have to work with your rifle and find it's "sweet" point. If you wanna find that place faster, I'd recommend slugging the barrel.
Good luck. Once you get it working for you, it's probably going to be your favorite caliber to shoot and load.

shinjin · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2012, 05:41:28 AM »

Bad typing on my end! I typoed the slug sizes.
I have tried .375, .377 and .379. None shot very well. Definately MODeer but I like a tighter grouping, especially with a scope.
Nope, haven't slugged the barrel, yet. Was being lazy and hoped to find the sweet spot. Might have a local gunsmith do that and might have him check to see if should clean up that chmaber.
If I can get her to shoot tighter she'd make a neat West Texas Whitetail rifle with a 265 grain cast bullet.

srussell · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2012, 07:52:52 AM »

mine has the chamber reamed to .400. i shoot .380/381 cast bullets in unsized fire formed cases. get good groups with trail boss for lighter loads and use imr4198 for top end loads

KIMBER45 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2012, 08:22:31 AM »

Quote from: petemi on June 19, 2012, 03:03:26 AM

Quote from: shinjin on June 18, 2012, 04:44:39 AM
I am having trouble finding the right bullet for mine. Have tried several diff .375, .358 and .359 cast bullets and so far none that have been very accurate, even with different poweders, primers and grains.

Did you have any luck with a particular brand or diameter bullet?

Imean the rifle is sweet. Its got almost no recoil, hits with authority and is a sweetheart to tote, it'd be a shame if I can't get her to shoot.
One of Tim's rifles and mine are 18 inch twin sisters. I shoot the same bullets Tim does. A .379 213 gr. jacketed shoots very well at 2200+ fps. My groups tightened up with increased velocity........and there certainly is a bit of felt recoil...nothing to flinch from though. Besides using the larger bullets, try picking up the speed. I have had no chambering problems with mine.
Pete

Wher can we purchase those bullets and what powder and amount of powder are you using? I ready to give up and put mine in the back of the safe.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2012, 09:20:12 AM »

Quote from: KIMBER45 on June 19, 2012, 08:22:31 AM

Wher can we purchase those bullets and what powder and amount of powder are you using? I ready to give up and put mine in the back of the safe.

Check your PMs for a private source, I shot some more of the 213gr bullets last week, using RL7 I got up to 2420fps and 1" groups at 100yds.

Tim

Blackhawker · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2012, 09:52:32 AM »

Tim, I'm not as interested in the load data as just the source of the bullets. Is the source of the bullet a thing that can be publicly displayed?

Quote from: quickdtoo on June 19, 2012, 09:20:12 AM

Quote from: KIMBER45 on June 19, 2012, 08:22:31 AM
Wher can we purchase those bullets and what powder and amount of powder are you using? I ready to give up and put mine in the back of the safe.

Check your PMs for a private source, I shot some more of the 213gr bullets last week, using RL7 I got up to 2420fps and 1" groups at 100yds.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2012, 09:58:56 AM »

No, he wants to keep it private or it would have been posted years ago.

Tim

garbhead · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2012, 10:28:43 AM »

One of Tim's rifles and mine are 18 inch twin sisters. I shoot the same bullets Tim does. A .379 213 gr. jacketed shoots very well at 2200+ fps. My groups tightened up with increased velocity........and there certainly is a bit of felt recoil...nothing to flinch from though. Besides using the larger bullets, try picking up the speed. I have had no chambering problems with mine.
Pete
Pete or Tim...could you direct me to pics of your shortie 38-55's? I have seen them but can't seem to locate them now...thinking of chopping mine...thanks

Jason F · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2012, 10:31:24 AM »

No wonder i never could find. 379 jacketed bullets on the internet.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2012, 10:45:09 AM »

There's a source for .378" jacketed bullets in the FAQs, he says they're soft enough to bump up and shoot good in any 38-55 barrel. Here's my shorty 38-55.

Tim

Blackhawker · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2012, 04:58:54 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on June 19, 2012, 09:58:56 AM

No, he wants to keep it private or it would have been posted years ago.

Tim

OH DARN!

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2012, 08:38:23 AM »

'All this trouble'

? This cartridge has been around for well over 100 years, and was here long before SAAMI specs, so there have been some proprietary variations. It only seems that H&R used the wrong chamber neck dia. for the bore/groove of the barrel. Not that big a deal to fix or tune the brass/bullet dia.s to work. I admit this isnt your typical jacketed rifle reload, but it is typical for long ago when most shot cast lead bullets, so it is 'follow the basics' and it will work now just as well as it did back then when it was a favored target cartridge.
For most reloaders the easiest solution is to get the neck reamer from 4D and use the larger dia. bullets (which will be at min. groove dia.).

shinjin · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2012, 09:28:12 AM »

Well hopefully I have a solution enroute. I bought a truck load of cast bullets off GBroker the Seller says he had for his worn over-sized 38-55. Maybe they are the .380's plus I need.
I used Trail Boss and thru my LEE Auto Powder dispenser and did not get consistent drops so my deviation was wider than acceptable on one batch. I had a squib, even. Second batch I hand weighed and hand dropped and did better, much better. Going back and pulling all ofthem (only about 30) and start fresh.

Thanksfor the input guys.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2012, 09:41:37 AM »

Throw your charges 'in a batch' then inspect the powder level visually in the bunch, you will see the squibs!
For 'target loads' throw them light and bring to final weight with a dribbler (or a big case mostly full of powder that you just hold and index finger tap to drop some grains). It goes pretty quick this way. I use a Redding powder measure that is spot on every time I check it. I can depend on it entirely, but check anyway 'cause it is the proper thing to do.

shinjin · « **Reply #21 on:** June 22, 2012, 03:46:52 AM »

thanks Gcrank1. I bought a digital scale and a dribbler so I can throw short then trickler up.

Years ago I ruined an S&W Model 27 with a squib. 5th round in a string of six rapid fire was a squib. The sixth round slammed in to it and stretched the top strap and ruined my pride and joy. I have been very careful ever since but this one got by me. Fortunately I was shooting a single shot so I could save this barrel.

petemi · « **Reply #22 on:** June 22, 2012, 06:16:53 AM »

I've been out of touch due to an internet service provider change. I'm back

This is a pic of my 18 inch .356. The .38-55 looks the same except it's on a checkered walnut stock set.

Pete

shinjin · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2012, 01:37:44 AM »

Going to shoot my 38-55 today but quick update on relaods.
With my new digital scale I weighed all loaded rounds. Discovered that of the 50 remaining I had three seperate weigh classes; 15 of a light weight, 14 of a medium and 21 very heavy. WTHeck? Since my puller is hammer style I could not weigh powder charges but I did check empty cases and bullets.
Cases were all from same Winchester lot but weighed hundredths of ounce different. I dunno if that effects anything.
Bullets were the same but avg 249 grains.
So I handweighed my charges for the 15 light loads and they weighed almost identical. I suppose it was the cases different weights..., maybe?
Pulled one of the heavyweights and playes with powder. The weight of the loaded cartridge is consistent with a load slightly under max. So I will try them all today to see what shoots better. I color coded them so I'd know which were which.
I really like the 38-55 for an all-round deer buster ( better I got 2000 cast bullets left). I hope one of these shoot well.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2012, 04:30:57 AM »

Most likely to 100yds. you wouldnt see 'much' difference for practice, plinking, or even most hunting, unless you had another squib, of course. The weighing of loaded rounds eliminated that.
Now that you are soon to be getting down to making, hopefully, real accuracy loads the hard part might be controlling that one big, fickle variable...the shooter .
FWIW, if you have a distance, say 150+ yds. in a field or a good berm where you can see the shots land, it helps to sort out some initial load work without setting/retrieving targets. If the load seems to be dropping them where you are looking it is worth pursuing, if they scatter you know it is no good. That has helped me quickly dismiss a bum load without burning up a bunch of powder, lead and time.
Bon chance and may all your shots be 10's or better

shinjin · « **Reply #25 on:** July 05, 2012, 02:42:45 AM »

Well yesterday (aside from the margaritas) was a waste. The 38-55 shot worse than before. A single 1 inch group. The rets avg 4 inches at 25 yards! With a scope.
Going UP in bullet diameter, I have three more to go till I give up.
Right now with the barrel in my mouth I couldn't commit suicide its so inaccurate.

shinjin · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2012, 02:43:59 AM »

Forgot to add.
It does punch a hole ins teel though!
At 100 yards one of the FLYERS hit the steel leg for the target and punched a nice hole thru one side. Whoa!!!!

gcrank1 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 05, 2012, 03:40:56 AM »

How hard are those !! ?? And did I miss it?, but what do those bullets mic out at?
You know, too hard a bullet wont 'bump up' and if it is just even a tad too small a dia it WILL lead. Revolver guys are used to this phenomenon. Did you check for leading now? Bronze wool wrapped snuggish on cal. smaller bore brush will strip it out quickly and easily with no bore damage.
We are using the LEE 38-55 bullet as cast and alloy of wheel weights 50/50 with range scrap bullets and a dash of tin with success.

Larry L · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2012, 04:16:08 AM »

As stated, the bullet diameter is critical for these old shooters. I get mine from Beartooth Bullets, the 255 gr with a gas check in .378. Works out of the rifles and carbines so I'm pretty lucky in that respect. The factory loading was a 255 gr at 1320'ps.
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm