45-120 > 3,000 FPS

[bikerbeans]

 
 
 
 

[Ten Ring]

Did the plastic melt?

[gendoc]

is your shoulder functioning................

[bikerbeans]

Did the plastic melt?

Not one sabot blowout during the workup to +3,000 fps.  Originally was using .401" 279 grainers but my shoulder started complaining around 2750 FPS.     So cheated a bit by using a lighter bullet.
 
BB

[gendoc]

Did the plastic melt?

  So cheated a bit by using a lighter bullet.
 
BB

now BB, don't ya mean.. ya tooka mouth fulla cheddar cheeze rite b4 ya pulled on that trigger..

[bikerbeans]

is your shoulder functioning................

With the 204 grainers the recoil ain't really that bad, of course I was using peep sights so I didn't have to dodge the eyebox of a scope.     The gun only weighs 10 pounds right now so I have a couple of ideas to get it up to +13 pounds.  Then I will go back to the 279 grain sabots and see how that goes.  This ain't really new ground, there is a bunch of 45 cal sabot smokeless data available at the savage 10ML board with velocity just shy of 3,000 FPS and it was generated with a 23" barrel MZ.  So add a brass case, a lot of compression, a taper crimp and 9" of barrel and 3,000 FPS was easy to achieve. 
 
BB

[bikerbeans]

Doc,
 
No cheeze required for this one.  I am saving the aged cheddar for the next project, a little 7mm with a rim, don't ya know.
 
BB

[gendoc]

Doc,
 
No cheeze required for this one.  I am saving the aged cheddar for the next project, a little 7mm with a rim, don't ya know.
 
BB

i fergot bout that "7-bling" yur make'n.....thatsa what j3 calls it 

[quickdtoo]

Way to go BB, congrats!!  Hmmmm, wonder what the 499HE would do with some sabot loads? Case capacity is 165.9gr H2O compared to ~120grs for the 45-120!!! 

Tim

[bikerbeans]

Way to go BB, congrats!!  Hmmmm, wonder what the 499HE would do with some sabot loads? Case capacity is 165.9gr H2O compared to ~120grs for the 45-120!!! 

Tim

Thanks Tim!
 
BTW, 50 cal sabots fit in a 50 cal rifle bore not the 50 cal pistol bore so probably not a good idea to try it with the .499 Hubel.  I sure wish those 50 sabots would fit in a 500 S&W cause I would have already built a smokeless 50 cal Handi MZ.  Now a 50-140 with sabots that might be something to try, especially since I know 50 cal sabot fly straight out of a 50-70.
 
BB

[quickdtoo]

With an expander I can make them fit just as I would loading cast bullets, what they do in the bore would make no difference, they'd just seal tighter. It's not like I'm trying to push em down the bore from the muzzle which would be real hard to do, it's hard enough to load sabots in the correct bore!! 

Tim

[bikerbeans]

You are correct sir, I was thinking about sabots from the wrong end of the  barrel.
 
BB

[MSP Ret]

I'm in and waiting for the accuracy test results!!!....<><....

[bikerbeans]

MSP,
 
If I can get the weight of the gun up a bit and put the optics back on it then I will go for some groups.  So far just been shooting for the chrony  numbers and trying not to destroy the instrument  in the process.  BTW, sabots at this velocity discard very quickly so you need a shield of some type because a little old piece of plastic at 3,000 FPS will shatter 1/4" plexiglas.    I had to reduce the chrony distance to about 10' to keep the sabots from beating the chrony "sneeze guard" to death.
 
BB

[LONGTOM]

What type of bullets were you using, where did you get them and did they stabilise?
I think I would be interested in trying them.
Should make for a flat shooting 45cal deer gun.
Havn't really sterted on my 50-140 yet except to get some brass.
 
 
LONGTOM

[quickdtoo]

You are correct sir, I was thinking about sabots from the wrong end of the  barrel.
 
BB

I figure a 175gr Dead Center .357" double saboted bullet on top of a 40kpsi load in the 499HE will run ~3300fps according to QL prediction.

Tim

[AtlLaw]

Havn't really sterted on my 50-140 yet except to get some brass.

And I haven't started on mine yet except to get the dies!   

[bikerbeans]

Okay, finally done generating chrony numbers just to make me grin.    Last 3 range adventures I have been trying to generate some useful groups using different brands of sabots, types of bullet, different powder, different brass, different primers etc. and what I have found is;
 
First shot with a COLD barrel is golden.
 
Immediate follow up shot, within 1 minute, will hit with 1 to 2 inches of the COLD barrel shot.
 
3rd shot fired within 1 minute of shot number 2 will usually be on a 10 inch target @ 100 yards
 
Any subsequent shots have unknown POIs
 
The barrel heats up extremely fast with sabots, much faster than it does with higher velocity jacketed bullets.  (If I had Gendoc's patience I could wait 30 to 40 minutes between shots but that ain't never going to happen, not with my AADD. )  After the second shot the petals start flying off the sabots, although the gas seal part of the sabot seems to stay intact because I wasn't get big variations in velocity.  I am thinking the 45/40 sabot may be useful out of 45-70 at velocities that are more typical of an inline MZ. 
 
All in all a successful project as it kept me from roaming the streets at night and entertained me while waiting for bow season to open. 
 
BTW, the 3,041 FPS number on the first post ain't near a record no more.
 
BB
 
 

[quickdtoo]

 

[muznut 54]

I have been doing that for a long time with a H&R 450marlin and H&R sw500mag I Posted it on dougs mess. board awhile ago. With the 450marlin I use a 210gr 41cal XTP with a Harvester smooth blue sabot for 40cal bullets it fits tight and you don't have to resize your case and with the 500mag I use a harvester smooth green for 44cal bullets same thing they fit tight enough that you don't have to resize the brass, in my rifles anyway.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Muznut 54:  what velocities are you getting with the Marlin?

[Smokin Joe]

First shot with a COLD barrel is golden.
 
Immediate follow up shot, within 1 minute, will hit with 1 to 2 inches of the COLD barrel shot.
 
3rd shot fired within 1 minute of shot number 2 will usually be on a 10 inch target @ 100 yards
 
Any subsequent shots have unknown POIs

Are the sabots fouling the barrel? Also, if the petals are flying off, the velocity is way too high for the sabot construction.

[bikerbeans]

Joe,
 
I think the main culprit is barrel heating.  Barrel is very hot after the first shot, if I had patience and waited for the barrel to cool down it would probably shoot a decent grouping. 
 
Another thing I found, at least with the 500 S&W, is seating the sabot way long in the cartridge so the petals are in the rifling helps a lot with accuracy.  I haven't tried to long seat the sabots in the 45-120 because I found for good ignition I need a full case of powder and it would take well over a 100 grains of powder to do this,    more recoil that is fun to shoot.
 
I am going to continue the sabot cartridge work with a 500 S&W and my homemade 350 grain 1/2 jacketed bullets.  I can long seat and have a full case and get by with around 35 to 40 grains of powder so it is much cheaper to shoot and the recoil is light enough to launch a few dozen from the bench w/o issue.  Velocity with this setup ranges from 1200 to 1900 FPS depending upon how fast a powder I use.
 
BB

[Goatwhiskers]

Idle speculation not based on any real knowledge, seems to me that a PP with a little JPW lube would work just as well, and my barrel using PP boolits in 35 cal doesn't heat up very fast.  Velocity, well I dunno.  Goat

[bikerbeans]

Idle speculation not based on any real knowledge, seems to me that a PP with a little JPW lube would work just as well, and my barrel using PP boolits in 35 cal doesn't heat up very fast.  Velocity, well I dunno.  Goat

Goat,
 
My only reason for doing this was to generate a +3,000 FPS chrony number with the 45-120, which I did repeatedly.  I have a couple a dozen more of these to shoot and then I am going back to cast boolits, 405 HBs and 535 Postells.  Probably back off the velocity a couple hundred FPS when I go back to lead.    

BB