Author Topic: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....  (Read 1904 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline alan in ga

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« on: June 20, 2012, 01:23:57 AM »
Sold my SS G2 frame and the nice walnut rifle stock/forend it had. Down to 'only' one G2 blued frame, rifle stock/forend [walnut of course] and a neat Bulberry 22LR Match bull/blue barrel purchased about a year ago on classifieds here...20" long [just right]. Done, right?......nope.
Someone had the GALL to put up an MGM SS 18" barrel in .357 Maximum for sale.......something happened..not sure what...but now it seems I am doubling the barrel collection....from one to 'two'.
How DOES this happen?.....Contenderitis?!
I have always wanted a .357 Mag or Max in a Contender...had an H&R but the quality of a T/C just overwhelms anything the H&R offered. I would like to have had a 22" length but doubt I'll be shooting many full house 357 Maximum loads anyway...would love to afford another moderator for .38Spl subsonic ammo, but will probably just 'load down' and use Max cases.
Anyone shooting a Maximum here?

Offline Iowa Fox

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 250
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 09:56:35 AM »
Alan, there is no known cure for Contenderitis. I do have a 20" Bullberry 357 Max barrel and it is a fun barrel to play with. 

Offline Ladobe

  • Trade Count: (91)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3193
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 01:41:27 PM »
Alan,
 
We've known each other and communicated via computer or phone for a long, long time (since what, 90's?).   From that I can safely state that you change your mind on firearms as often as most folks change their underwear.  Some may call that being wishy washy, but knowing you I call it being adventurous, a card carrying piddle butt even, although it is poor management of available funds to get into them and out of them as many times as you have.   ;)
 
Few have ever suffered from acute Contenderitis even close to as much as I did for well over 40 years from when they first came out... not in shear numbers owned, not in number of different cartridges for them, nor number of rounds fired in them.  But as you know I finally sold the last of all my TC Contender frames about a year and a half ago, last of the barrels and all accessories soon after.   Trust me, it still hurts, and I will never get over not having any of them. 
 
So stop fighting it in your mind and just enjoy them as long as you can.    You're no spring chicken either and your last day is coming all too soon as well.   :'(
 
It's been way too long since I had the last 357Max to remember my load data and results, and my old records are buried deep in storage someplace even if I do still have them.   While not a favorite it is a fine round in the Contender, but I got seriously into the wildcats and handcannons so long ago that the factory offerings that were not favorites are pretty much lost in the fog of antiquity.
 
Larry
 
 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline dave29

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (93)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1256
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 02:04:21 PM »
I have a 18" MGM Max for one of my Encores, I love it.

If you need any load data, let me know.

Offline alan in ga

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2012, 03:10:22 PM »
Well thanks for the "I'm OK, you're OK". I guess I'll be "out" of Contenders one day and now just won't worry about when or what day that will be.
I had the two H&R Handi Rifles in .357 mag and shot some 38 Spl ammo out of them,,,,almost like 'CB' ammo out of a .35 bore like the 22 CB ammo we all tinker with occasionally in our 22s.
I do wonder, and will go ahead and ask 'the' question even though it gets discussed now and then...shooting .38s out of a .357 Mag chamber seems 'ok', but shooting 38Spls out of a longish Maximum chamber seems like it possibly could hammer the start of the rifling at the throat, not to mention the 'oft mentioned' fouling of the chamber at the shorter case's mouth [powder/lead fouling]. I'm getting 200 cases of Max brass so I can just use it but still.....I'm going to be tempted to shoot .38 Spls in it. No reason whatsoever to shoot hot or jacketed load .38s or I would just use the Max cases.....low power is the ONLY reason to plink with the lead bullet target load 38 Spl stuff. [OK, I know Ladobe is cracking his knuckles to type "....if you wanted a dang .38 Spl...why didn't you just buy a .38 Spl~?!?"..LOL].
One reason I keep wandering 'away' from Contenders is....I like barrel fitting with a lathe. The lug of a Contender barrel [I actually had about 90 of the lugs thinking I would make my own] is a weld process, something of which I know nothing. T/C does/did a fine job of welding and finishing the barrels but a tinkerer is not often satisfied. I do wish they had offered rifled, 'finished' barrels lug and all, without chambers. That would have left me something to do on the lathe. I did ream a .357 Mag to Max which is not much metal to cut but had thought about a .25 TCU in a rifle barrel a few times long ago. The .25-35 Win is one I just about purchased when the T/C Custom shop closed up. That itch wasn't a strong one but....
I'll probably put a 2.5-8 Leupold on this barrel, after some target work I also have a fixed Leupold 4X somewhere....we'll see.
Thanks guys...later...
 

Offline Ladobe

  • Trade Count: (91)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3193
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 07:03:01 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D  Somebody has to at least try to keep you in check.  Lost cause I know, but you know I have to razz you for old times sake.   ;)
 
No I am NOT going to say you should have bought a 38SPL barrel... although my very first Contender frame came with an 8 3/4" octagon, and I simply loved it.   It's the only barrel I ever came close to wearing out even though I only shot cast target/plinking loads in it - probably hundreds of thousands of them over those early years with a buddies help.   Sessions were at least one, sometimes two 5 gallon buckets full of reloads to keep me (or us) happily banging away from dawn to dusk over several years.
 
If it were me that wanted a light/quieter load way back when I still had a 357Max , I probably would have simply loaded it down with an appropriate powder, used filler if necessary, maybe tried a duplex load or just went ahead and shot my 38SPL ammo of choice in it.   You know and I know you won't keep the barrel long enough to worry about it either way anyway, so do what fits for you.   :)
 
You crossed the bridge way back on making your own Contender barrels... do remember you having a bunch of barrel recoil blocks.   I also remember discussing with you both them and also simply "rebarreling" factory barrels since you do have the equipment to do it.   It's been done for years by others, has worked fine on all I shot or heard of for reasonable cartridges, might even work fine for the biggest, baddest cartridges (although I would have never had a need to find out with all of the handcannons I wanted in custom barrels).   Simply acquire a donor barrel used, whack the barrel appropriately ahead of the barrel block, re bore the stub and chamber, mod the new barrel blank to install in it any of at least 3 ways (depending on what from and what too), rechamber/do the extractor and you have just about any of the 275ish cartridge choices you want for your Contender.   With the rebarrel work that I know about you have done it ought to be easy enough for you to do.  Would whet your lathe appetite just fine as it's almost all lathe work.   
 
FWIW the 25-35 works quite well in the Contender as is, even with handgun lengths thanks to so many better bullets and powders coming available since it's start.   Mine was a factory handgun barrel, was great for predator hunting just as is, and I'm sure could have handled at least big mule deer just fine to reasonable ranges if I had ever tried it for that.   My 25's of choice though as a mostly handgun hunter were the 257JDJ's, and the 25-20WCF, 25-21 and 25-25 Stevens were also favorites for my uses for the caliber in Contender's.  The 25 "to do" cartridge left undone on my list when I stopped shooting was the 25 Classic.   I had a large stockpile of Starke RPVB 82's I wanted to shoot up in something new, and I thought tossing them around 2900 way down range with a 25 Classic handgun was just the ticket for them.   Never got my 30 Merrill Contender barrel either, another excellent choice for the 1000 new 225 Win brass I still have left over from the JDJ days and thousands of 125gr TNT's.  Had some others on the list, but these two just kept saying "must do" to me.   But I had too many other irons in the fire to get to them, waited too long and ran out of time.
 
 
 
 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline alan in ga

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 11:58:08 AM »
Ladobe...you got me figured out...lol.
yep, dreamed up a lot of 'efficient' rounds that would be at home in a Contender. I never really wanted to go 'hot' with rifle rounds such as the borderline .250 Savage [or any .308 Win diameter case].
The Contender does great with 'hot' rounds that are smaller diameter and no one that enjoys the Contender wants to 'stress' the frame.
I'm guessing the .357 Maximum is going to be a muzzle blaster with only 18" of barrel but I'll find out the fun way, buy one..shoot it. Now to digout the .357 dies I have which are carbide and 'should' work with Max cases...right?

Offline Ladobe

  • Trade Count: (91)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3193
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2012, 01:18:22 PM »
Alan,
 
The Contender frames have been pushed a lot harder than some might think - ie, to include the Jurras Howdah cartridges if the frame is beefed up.   But shooting hot borderline cartridges in a standard frame equates to a sooner or later scenario all too often.   I learned from long experience that the wildcats the Contender can handle safely can do just about anything the Encore can with it's more powerful cartridges.   So personally I don't get the why's for pushing a Contender to borderline or beyond; why push for the max when the most accurate loads are below max far more often than not; why chamber for something you have to load down; why chance damage to the equipment or injury to the shooter; why create something that may eventually belong to someone else that doesn't know the rules for loading it safely?   Short answer to all of these is nothing but ego IMO.   I never found anything the four 375JDJ barrels I owned couldn't do, anything they wouldn't kill DRT, with plenty of umph to still be impressive and yet still loaded well below max for the frame.   I can't cast the first stone though when it comes to ego... out of nothing but ego I had a 10" 416 Rigby barrel for my first Encore.   The Encore can handle it easily, but it wouldn't do anything a 375JDJ couldn't also do with less powder, lighter bullets, less recoil, less muzzle blast and in a lighter platform that was easier to shoot accurately to amazing ranges even in a handgun.   Main reason why I didn't keep the Encores long and sold them all - I didn't need them as long as I had Contenders.   The Ackley, JDJ and Super Bower wildcats became my favorite cartridges for everything long ago in the Contender's, and there was nothing they couldn't do as well or better than anything else while staying well within the safe zone for the frames.    I'll get off my soap box with a simple FWIW.   ;)
 
Your 357MAG dies will work just fine for the MAX, in fact some die sets are marked 357MAG/MAX.   Initially with new brass I'd just set the FL to allow as much case in as needed to chamber fully, after fireformed they will probably only need to be short sized unless you have a sloppy chamber or hard extraction.   Adjust your other dies to the MAX's case length as you would for a 357MAG.   Depending on the powders you use, you may also want to do a light crimp... not to prevent set back in a Contender naturally, but some powders just like some crimp to burn more consistently.
 
Have fun with whatever you finally choose.
 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline alan in ga

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 02:51:19 PM »
Ladobe, you shoot some hand cannons for sure. I had a 45/70 and loaded it mild. I like .458" and .358" bores.
I've had .357 Magnum in a 10" bull and was suprised at the flash and muzzle blast, until I shot a .45 Win Mag S14 I aquired. First T/C was a S14 in .35 Rem and it was so accurate...especially with a cartridge that everyone else was getting 2 to 5" groups with....out of their lever action Marlins! I thought [for a very short while] about building a .35/.30 {.35-30/30} just to get a medium power round with a RIM as I like rimmed rounds in the T/C[just because]. Always thought the perfect 'tree rifle' in Georgia would be a .35 Rem in a Contender with bull rifle barrel and rifle stock with about 18" to 22" of barrel. Still liking a RIM on a single shot action the .357 Max seems to be about the 'perfect' round for .35 bore in a T/C.
We'll see soon I guess......Should be a handy little rifle at 18".

Offline Ladobe

  • Trade Count: (91)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3193
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 11:50:34 PM »
The 45/70 does have fairly healthy recoil/blast/flash in a handgun, but not that close to a 10" 416 Rigby.  That one turned pitch black night into daytime for some long seconds, and could singe the hair off a gopher to 15-20 feet.   ;)
 
My druthers for a short, 18" 30 cal Contender carbine would be the same as it is for a Contender handgun... the one I failed to get done, the 30 Merrill.   Strong rimmed 225 Win parent brass, and more than enough omph out of a short handgun tube for elk.
 
 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline TRM-1

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Gender: Male
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2012, 03:11:03 AM »
I didn't realize I put you through such a hardship when I had the gall to post the Max barrel and brass for sale. Finally I have returned the favor to a least one person as it has been done to me. As I have been in the same situation. I hope  you enjoy the Max!

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2

Offline alan in ga

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2012, 02:45:17 AM »
TRM-1....oh yeah..I'm blaming it ALL on you. How could you put an ad here, offering a barrel that I've always wanted?! MGM, too. Someone would be crazy to pay that much for a barrel, except for the fact that I know how much it would have cost if I bought it NEW and may have had to wait as well. It was like the pieces of bait that lure a bird under the box that will trap it...
Ha...I'm happy to have been able to buy it. I really figured someone else would have grabbed it before me but it seems that here on GB that most want 'steal deals' and I don't fault them for that as I've grabbed a few as well. However MGM barrels aren't cheap or common and I was 100%  satisfied to buy yours. It was as new as a barrel could get and only the fact that you paid for it first made it 'used'. I don't hesitate to buy something at a reasonable price, especially when it's something that doesn't come along everyday.
I had already researched aftermarket barrels, owned and shot factory T/C barrels, and there was maybe a 20 seconds to consider your ad before I knew I wanted it and would buy it. He who hesitates looses. I thought then, and think right now that it was a great find and buy for me. Hoping to make some noise with it next week! I put a Leupold 2.5-8X VXIII on it and it seems to be a good balance handling wise.
Thanks again for 'luring me back in'...HA!

Offline TRM-1

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Gender: Male
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2012, 09:20:46 AM »
Hey Glad I could be of help. I think you will enjoy the barrel!

Offline alan in ga

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
Re: getting out of T/C Contenders....or...am I??....
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2012, 03:50:57 AM »
Picked load using 1680 [have an 8 lb jug meant for my 17 Ackley Hornet], mounted the MGM 18" barrel forend on a swivel Harris bipod and rested the TOE of the buttstock on a too small sandbag [should have been tall enough to rest somewhat forward of the toe and sling swivel]. Leupold 2.5-8X VXIII and let me add that I was not really 'holding' or 'expecting' a better group than about what I was holding.....wobbling more than about an inch as far as how it looked through the scope.
Now that I know this barrel DOES want to SHOOT, I'll go back with my bench rest forend and several rear bags,  and either a better target to hold on or maybe mount a 14X or higher magnification scope.
Let's see what this MGM barrel can REALLY do! FYI: the throat in this barrel allows the Hornady 158 JHP to be seated out forward only about 1/16" farther out from seated and crimped in the cannelure. Nice throat!
Two holes furthest apart are 1.75" ctc. I was the weakest link in this setup! {100 yards/white square in center is 1"}