obummer uses executive privelege to protect himself and his buddy holder.

[Needles]

I'll stir the pot a bit more here.

1) "Fast and Furious" was a continuation of "Operation Wide Receiver," an operation set up by the Bush administration to feed the cartels guns with known serial numbers so they could trace the gun trafficking through Mexico. The two ATF agents were indeed killed with some of the trace guns.

2) Darrel Issa's subpoena is illegal. It subpoenas, among other things, the wiretaps done during the operation. The Homeland Security law specifically states that wiretaps done in the interest of national security can not be divulged, even to other agencies in the government. They can not be shared. That is a statute, and Congress can not override it.

3) Holder STOPPED the operation as soon as he took office. That means over 90% of the information that exists was recorded under the Bush administration. Issa's subpoena specifically states that they will not allow the information from the Bush administration in the hearing. That means they are refusing to call MOST of the witnesses, which are from the Bush administration.

4) Issa's subpoena is also for the information of the ONGOING INVESTIGATION. That, too, is illegal--- you can not give out information of ANY ongoing investigation until it is done. Mr Issa needs to read the laws.

Issa is ordering Holder to break the law. If he complies, he's a criminal; if he does not, Issa wants to hold him in contempt for understanding and doing his job. THAT'S why Obama is invoking executive privilege-- to keep Holder from being charged for doing his job.

If they're going to do this investigation, they need to do it right.

[nomosendero]

How unusual for a bunch of right-wingers to go after the first black President and first black Attorney General...who could have predicted that one?

Oh really? And if no one "goes after" them what do you think will happen when the government "goes after" YOU?

BTW this has NOTHING to do with the color of their skin, only a moron would think otherwise. It has to do with breaking the law to point of treason.
If they are not held responsible for their actions then the law as a whole is meaningless.

If it has nothing to do with the color of their skin , then why do you refer to the President of the United States as "O'boy"...think we all don't know what you mean by that?...easy to call people names on the internet....I doubt you would be so brave face-to-face....Plus this covert action involving gun tracing was started under your-moron in chief in 2006...

 
HEH, I rest my case. POWDERMAN. 

What a crock!! In my area we use the term O'boy or Ol'boy (depending on dialect) all of the time in Southern "Flyover"
country, in reference to friends, relatives, etc., regardless of color. To think of it only in racial terms goes back to that "ole" white Liberal facination with race condition many are afflicted with.
 
Before I read this thread I was thinking of starting a thread, asking to take bets on when the GBO Libs would start the "ole" race card thing, too late for that!! I really expected the Libs to do the attack the messanger thing with a vengeance first and then start the crybaby race card. I missed this one.
 
I do figure the Media & Holder/Obummer team will go in that order. We shall see.
 
 

[SwampThing762]

1) "Fast and Furious" was a continuation of "Operation Wide Receiver," an operation set up by the Bush administration to feed the cartels guns with known serial numbers so they could trace the gun trafficking through Mexico. The two ATF agents were indeed killed with some of the trace guns.

Two different names indicate two different operations.  Also, this spans two administrations.     I also read the reports that the FFL dealers in Arizona, J&G Sales being one example, calling ATF [post-Obama inauguration] regarding very suspicious transactions [that to the FFLs were illegal] and ATF said to complete the sale.     Those transactions fall under Obama's ATF since it was after January 20, 2009.

2) Darrel Issa's subpoena is illegal. It subpoenas, among other things, the wiretaps done during the operation. The Homeland Security law specifically states that wiretaps done in the interest of national security can not be divulged, even to other agencies in the government. They can not be shared. That is a statute, and Congress can not override it.

Illegal subpoena?    Indeed.   There have been multiple lawyers on all the media networks, and most of the members of the House committee, and Congress, that are attorneys and know the applicable laws.    Not one of them have said the committee issued illegal subpoenas.   Also, I fail to see how this investigation violates national security interests.   There is no imminent threat of invasion or any action by a hostile foreign power, or threat of insurrection.    If you have some special knowledge to the contrary, please share this superior knowledge with us.

3) Holder STOPPED the operation as soon as he took office. That means over 90% of the information that exists was recorded under the Bush administration. Issa's subpoena specifically states that they will not allow the information from the Bush administration in the hearing. That means they are refusing to call MOST of the witnesses, which are from the Bush administration.

That's it....blame the Bush administration for events that transpired under the watch of Obama and Holder.   Liberals really should rewrite their political playbook.

4) Issa's subpoena is also for the information of the ONGOING INVESTIGATION. That, too, is illegal--- you can not give out information of ANY ongoing investigation until it is done. Mr Issa needs to read the laws.

Again, please share any special or superior knowledge regarding the illegality of the subpoenas.   None of the attorneys on the media networks, including some who have argued before the Supreme Court, have stated the subpoenas were illegal or invalid.

Issa is ordering Holder to break the law. If he complies, he's a criminal; if he does not, Issa wants to hold him in contempt for understanding and doing his job. THAT'S why Obama is invoking executive privilege-- to keep Holder from being charged for doing his job.

If they're going to do this investigation, they need to do it right.

The Committee is doing their job.     Holder and his ATF have violated federal weapons laws by authorizing straw purchases, and that is why they refuse to release the documents.

ST762

[Cuts Crooked]

I'll stir the pot a bit more here.

1) "Fast and Furious" was a continuation of "Operation Wide Receiver," an operation set up by the Bush administration to feed the cartels guns with known serial numbers so they could trace the gun trafficking through Mexico. The two ATF agents were indeed killed with some of the trace guns.

Wide Receiver was stopped a long time before F&F. It was proven to be a failure so it was discontinued. F&F was a whole new attempt.

2) Darrel Issa's subpoena is illegal. It subpoenas, among other things, the wiretaps done during the operation. The Homeland Security law specifically states that wiretaps done in the interest of national security can not be divulged, even to other agencies in the government. They can not be shared. That is a statute, and Congress can not override it. F&F was a case of national security?3) Holder STOPPED the operation as soon as he took office. That means over 90% of the information that exists was recorded under the Bush administration. Issa's subpoena specifically states that they will not allow the information from the Bush administration in the hearing. That means they are refusing to call MOST of the witnesses, which are from the Bush administration. You KNOW holder stopped it as soon as he took office (actually he was appointed, he never "took" office) Then maybe you should testify before congress?

4) Issa's subpoena is also for the information of the ONGOING INVESTIGATION. That, too, is illegal--- you can not give out information of ANY ongoing investigation until it is done. Mr Issa needs to read the laws. I thought you said Holder stopped it.........

Issa is ordering Holder to break the law. If he complies, he's a criminal; if he does not, Issa wants to hold him in contempt for understanding and doing his job. THAT'S why Obama is invoking executive privilege-- to keep Holder from being charged for doing his job. Or he's doing the more obvious thing and trying to help cover up which is really much more believable.

If they're going to do this investigation, they need to do it right.

[SwampThing762]

This is political witchhunt. 

Instead of dealing with jobs/transportation/our fiscal crisis, we get this "tempest in a tea-pot" from Congress.
Good jobs , guys!  Way to prioritize.

Obama and Holder should get up in front of the tea bag controlled Congress and say "kiss my a**."

Gotta love liberals.  They never have their facts straight, and can only resort to race-baiting [the poster who alleged O'boy is racist] and nasty name-calling [tea bag controlled Congress].


The House [hint.....run by GOP] has presented, voted on, and approved three budgets as required by the Constitution.  The House has presented, voted on, and passed bills that address jobs and the financial crisis.    The Senate [hint.....run by Democrats] has not voted on any budget in excess of three years [as required by the Constitution].   The Senate also has not taken up any of the budgets, financial reform bills, and/or jobs bills that were approved by the House because Harry Reid will not allow any of the bills to the floor.

ST762

[Cabin4]

This is political witchhunt. 

Instead of dealing with jobs/transportation/our fiscal crisis, we get this "tempest in a tea-pot" from Congress.
Good jobs , guys!  Way to prioritize.

Obama and Holder should get up in front of the tea bag controlled Congress and say "kiss my a**."

Agree. A needed witchhunt. A boarder patrol agent is dead at the hands of this. Our AG is lying to congress and the American people. We have yet another botched up ATF scam going on and our AG knew about it.
 
I know its a novel idea for the leftist, but following the law and not lying to congress and the American people really is the correct thing to do.

[powderman]

This is political witchhunt. 

Instead of dealing with jobs/transportation/our fiscal crisis, we get this "tempest in a tea-pot" from Congress.
Good jobs , guys!  Way to prioritize.

Obama and Holder should get up in front of the tea bag controlled Congress and say "kiss my a**."

 
HEH. liberal democrats never cease to amaze me. POWDERMAN. 

[Couger]

Chicago politics in action.

 
Oh yeah!
 
The bastidges. 

[Singleshotsam]

 

Two US LEOs lost their lives with those weapons, their families and the rest of us deserve answers.

   Not to mention the hundreds of people murdered in Mexico with these same weapons.     As far as race comes into play, had Holder and Obama been white Republicans I would still be calling for them to produce the documents and stand trial for treason and murder.

[Cabin4]

Holder said back in 2009 that weapons are crossing the boarder into MX and we need stricter guns laws in teh US.
 
All along it was Holder & Obama themselves pushing guns accross the boarder to try and "frame" the American people in a scam for more gun control.
 
These guys are pure pigs.

[powderman]

Holder said back in 2009 that weapons are crossing the boarder into MX and we need stricter guns laws in teh US.
 
All along it was Holder & Obama themselves pushing guns accross the boarder to try and "frame" the American people in a scam for more gun control.
 
These guys are pure pigs.

 
C4. Well said Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[magooch]

This is political witchhunt. 

Instead of dealing with jobs/transportation/our fiscal crisis, we get this "tempest in a tea-pot" from Congress.
Good jobs , guys!  Way to prioritize.

Obama and Holder should get up in front of the tea bag controlled Congress and say "kiss my a**."

I take it you are referring to the part of Congress known as the Senate that is controlled by the lying liberal lefty Dumycrats who are known to reference tea baggers.

[jlwilliams]

How unusual for a bunch of right-wingers to go after the first black President and first black Attorney General...who could have predicted that one?

  Seriously?  You don't see the behavior of this AG as an issue?  You think that people who do must be racist? 
 
 This guy has been stonewalling Congress for months.  Submitting boxes and boxes of completely redacted doccuments as 'evidence'.  That is exacty what he gave to congress as the 'extrordinary' access, pages and pages with all the words inked over.  May have been some extrordinary info there, but he didn't reveal it to congress.  He lied about when he knew anything and changed his story.  This is completely unacceptable behavior from an Attorney General of the United States.  The President and the AG both said that The President had no knowledge of this untill it was on the news.  If that was true, executive privelage is wholely inapropriate, maybe even illegal.  Is it racist to insist that a black President and a black AG obey the law?  Do you really think that we are all out to get him because he's black?   Get real.  Caling us racist in the face of what is clearly the tip of a big, ugly iceberg doesn't address the real problem and it trivializes real racism.
 
  I had serious problems with the last President, does that make me a self loathing white?  Grow up and stop calling people names because they don't believe as you do.

[jimster]

This is political witchhunt. 

Instead of dealing with jobs/transportation/our fiscal crisis, we get this "tempest in a tea-pot" from Congress.
Good jobs , guys!  Way to prioritize.

Obama and Holder should get up in front of the tea bag controlled Congress and say "kiss my a**."

Sir, with all due respect, I am an American citizen bound by laws, so let me tell you what facts we have here.
Guns and ammunition were bought with stimulus tax money to buy thousands of guns and ammunition and send to another country, gun dealers called the BATF and told them they thought there was criminal activity happening, the ATF told them to just do it, they would take care of it, people in Mexico got killed by the hundreds and at least we know a couple of border patrol American citizens were killed.
I would say to you this is not a damn witch hunt, if YOU or I did such a thing we would never see the light of day again...
Your post is most repulsive to me jerseyvinny....somebody needs to go to jail for killing people and leaving families a mess....it's called negligent homicide if you would have done it, along with a lot of other felonies for messing with another country and getting people killed there as well. And going across the border into another country...you need permission from someone WAY up the ladder on this one.
Heads need to roll...I'm sick and tired of people like you thinking they are above the law...just because they are people YOU voted for. As an American attached to no party...that sucks. I want someone to go to jail.  The only reason to cover this up is it MUST go up the ladder pretty damn far. 
The country is being run by criminals...you best wake up vinny, because if they can get away with this, they can come into your home and crap on your bed too...they don't care that you voted for them.
 

[Cabin4]

Obama and Holder should get up in front of the tea bag controlled Congress and say "kiss my a**."

I wish they would do that. It would simply provide additional confirmation of how corrupt obama, holder and the rest of this administration really is. This administration hates our Constitution and BOR and it shows.

[Cabin4]

Try to dial yourself forward to today.  If Holder was such the great AG I guess he would have time to try and go after the prior administration for all the laws they broke. But, there is a congressional inquiry going on right now, and holder and obama are lying to us now. Are you just okay with all this or do you think liying to congress is not in the best interest of our country. BTW: Scooter Libby went to jail, so I'm not sure what the issue is there..... Are you saying that was a waste of time?
 

[powderman]

Anybody but me notice the reinforced ranks of the obamaites here recently?? I wonder how many have the same IP addy, or maybe the same as some that are already here. POWDERMAN. 

[jimster]

I'm glad i amaze.  i am sorry if you think my pov is replusive.

Te previous administration got us into two wars based on lies and the need to feed big defense.
5,000 Americans are dead because of it.  the only person to go to jail was that pissant, scotter libby.
he did a great job of taking the fall for the real criminals cheney, rove, ashcroft, rumsfield and bush.
Although Bush probably could have gotten off for being mentally incompetent to stand trail.

you need a sense of proportionality.  Where is the "outrage" over that?

Send em all to jail.  What has that got to do with you supporting what's curently going on???  Your party colors are all to clear.
I'm attached to no party...there is no free pass for anyone in my book.  I hate political parties and any puppet that supports them. 

[Cabin4]

powderman: the "reinforced ranks of obamities".  a military term.
 i like it.  count me in.
 
 cabin4: i was just trying to  bring a sense of scale to F & F.
 If Congress was really interested in getting to the bottom of F & F, they would have questioned Muckasy.
 Pure politics.
 
 let me clue you in on something EVERYBODY LIES!  REPUBS LIE, DEMS LIE.  You can't be a politician if you don't lie.
 Politicians have to lie to us cause if they told us the truth; they would never get elected.  If i can paraphrase Jack Nicholson; "We couldn't handle the truth."
 
 Even us obamities know that.  Chime in tea bagging, muzzle suckers!  ( I can call names too. )

If you want to bring some scale, then perhaps you can take a look at the threads and posts railing the Bush admin back a few years here on GBO.
 
Just becasue they lie, is no excuse for us to accept. Holder is not in a political post. He is the highest ranking law enforcer in this land. And we should not expect our AGs to be liars. Sorry, that must be for the obamaities.

[ironglow]

  WIDE RECEIVER...as started by the Bush admin..NO border agents were murdered, but the Bush administration stopped it and stamped the file "NEVER AGAIN"; primarily because it was not effective..and the guns could not be easily traced.
  The Wide Receiver operation has no connection with Fast & Furious;  Wide Receiver was run through the DEA..while Fast & Furious was run by the ATF..
 
  To me, it is clearly an attempt to destroy the 2nd article of our Bill of Rights.  Hillary started laying the foundation to hoping to eradicate our 2nd amendment back in 2009:
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNfSsP3A_0w       pass it on guys..

[jlwilliams]

Anybody but me notice the reinforced ranks of the obamaites here recently?? I wonder how many have the same IP addy, or maybe the same as some that are already here. POWDERMAN. 

  I had noticed that too.

[mcbammer]

We    may    never    know   what  really   happened   .    People    tend   to    lose   interest    as    months   &   years   pass   and   thats   what   obie   is   counting   on .

[Cabin4]

I fully believe, that Holder and Obama restarted this program to frame the American people for guns passing into MX. I said it years ago when Holder & Obama were making public statements about the problem of guns running south into MX. Holder said: "he know guns are going from the US into MX". He certainly did, and was him and Obama doing it. They were pushing for gun control at the time.
 
Its a complete scam, that Holder and Obama restarted, under the auspices of a tracking guns to the cartels. The real truth is that's just the cover up story if it ever broke lose. And it did. They could have put micro GPS units on those guns if they really wanted to track & trace them. They never did because they did not want to track & trace the guns. They wanted those guns to flood the illegal market so they could say: see, we need gun control.
 
These pigs are pure criminals.

[Singleshotsam]

Anybody but me notice the reinforced ranks of the obamaites here recently?? I wonder how many have the same IP addy, or maybe the same as some that are already here. POWDERMAN. 

  I had noticed that too.

People would take those statements more seriously if you didn't go around labeling eveybody that disagreed with your opinions "Obamaites."  That clever little trick of yours is starting to get played out.

[powderman]

sss. I take it that your answer is NO, you never noticed ?? Just seems to be an influx of lefties here lately all harolding the many great accomplishments, UHHHHH, NONE, of their chosen one. Just me I reckon. POWDERMAN. 

[Cabin4]

Yes, there are more Lefties joining GBO because as they Google search there favorite topics, the threads and topics appear in the search results. They hit the links and see the threads and decide to join in and attempt to defend the indefensible. Normal election year garble. As soon as the election is over, most will likely will go away because they have no real interest in fixing this countries problems. They are just interested in propagating the lies of this administration and defending its horrific and destructive policies. What better place to do this than on the WWW. You have a global audience, many of which have the intelligence level of whale excrement.

[Singleshotsam]

Normal election year garble. As soon as the election is over, most will likely will go away because they have no real interest in fixing this countries problems

Sadly true for lots of people on both sides of the aisle...

[rickt300]

I'm glad i amaze.  i am sorry if you think my pov is replusive.

Te previous administration got us into two wars based on lies and the need to feed big defense.
5,000 Americans are dead because of it.  the only person to go to jail was that pissant, scotter libby.
he did a great job of taking the fall for the real criminals cheney, rove, ashcroft, rumsfield and bush.
Although Bush probably could have gotten off for being mentally incompetent to stand trail.

you need a sense of proportionality.  Where is the "outrage" over that?

Two wars based on lies? The previous administration? Iraq's secret service attempting to assasinate a former head of state is an act of war no matter what you think of George H.W. Bush. Second if you will remember the large matter of the 9-11, I hardly think W. Bush engineered that. As for the weapons of mass destruction you might remember that Hussein kicked out the observers so he had plenty of time to hide his poisen gas stores.  As a matter of fact we destroyed many tons of weapons, some of which were certainly of "Mass destruction types" just by blowing them in place, considering it too dangerous to do an inventory. Open your mind a bit, Obama and his cronies deserve no respect. If I were Black I would be ashamed that my race sent Obama into the White house.

[ultramag44]

Gentlemen, Remember, just because the Obamahahahah justice department may decline to file charges on brother Holder; nothing (short of a presidential pardon by Obamaahahahah before he leaves the orifice) can stop a Romney Justice Department from filing on brother Holder, and bringing his notorious assets to face the music.

[scootrd]

Full story here  -  It was jurisdiction prosecutors that tied the ATF's hands from making the arrests of straw purchasers.
ATF demanded to seize guns , prosecutors where straw purchases were occuring would not allow for arrests.

Full story here  - 

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

excerpt here  -
Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

what is so ridiculous about this whole Holder contempt of congress crap is that it goes nowhere . Even if House votes him in contempt , Senate never will , and lets say senate did , then it would go guess where   -  yep  - to the Justice department to decide whether to prosecute or not, and of course they would not.

Just one big distraction away from Jobs .