Author Topic: Water Balloons ?? (Read 2752 times)

old fort · « **on:** June 21, 2012, 08:04:29 AM »

Been reading about folks wanting to wad up a cannon or mortar to create more BANG .... not my cup of tea ..rather be very safe than even a little sorry ...... but has anyone ever thought of loading a water balloon on top of a charge .... granted a mortar would probably be better suited to this due to the short distance ...thoughts

?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2012, 08:36:30 AM »

What's the end result you'd be trying to achieve in doing this?

GGaskill · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2012, 09:00:03 AM »

Water balloons are so fragile you might extinguish the powder before the water exited the bore.

old fort · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2012, 09:06:11 AM »

my only thought was ...a safe way to increase the report with out a fire hazard down range ..and with out creating an excessive pressure situation .... the fragile nature of the balloons would assure that there would be little risk of a down range accident ....having read that even a 1/4" of water over an explosive can increase the power of the blast

carmy53 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:56:25 AM »

If I get a chance I will try using a water balloon in my golf ball mortar this weekend and report on the results.

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2012, 05:11:42 PM »

Quote from: old fort on June 21, 2012, 09:06:11 AM

my only thought was ...a safe way to increase the report with out a fire hazard down range ..and with out creating an excessive pressure situation .... the fragile nature of the balloons would assure that there would be little risk of a down range accident ....having read that even a 1/4" of water over an explosive can increase the power of the blast

I think water would create more pressure since water would weigh more than a ball of paper or aluminum.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2012, 06:32:39 AM »

Quote from: old fort on June 21, 2012, 09:06:11 AM

my only thought was ...a safe way to increase the report with out a fire hazard down range ..and with out creating an excessive pressure situation .... the fragile nature of the balloons would assure that there would be little risk of a down range accident ....having read that even a 1/4" of water over an explosive can increase the power of the blast

The idea is new to me, but yeah, I'd also guess that the weight of the water pressing the rubber against the bore wall would make for a louder bang.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2012, 07:51:24 AM »

Water will create a lot of pressure by having a hydraulic effect..... and what ever it is in may cause it to act as a bore obstruction........ I have seen people use wet news paper for wadding to get a louder report, this practice is not recommended again because of the hydraulic effect and possible bore obstruction...... also the wet paper becomes a projectile..... I witnessed a effigy of King George III painted on pine board 1" thick set out at 20 ft from the muzzle get knocked over and penetrated by newspaper there were three holes, two you could stick a finger through the third you could stick three fingers through this was fired out of a Hern Ironworks tube their scale 6 pounder.... I think if used in a short Choehorn style mortar the worst that will happen is if its windy people behind the mortar may get rained on.....

GLS · « **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2012, 07:59:18 AM »

Reminds me of filling bladders of water in the bore holes in the coal mine to tamp the dynamite charges instead of packing clay. Held the pressure real well. No blow out the hole just pressure to the sides to break up the coal.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2012, 07:04:39 PM »

flagman1776 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2012, 03:31:07 AM »

I will not try this. I have no desire to go there.

keith44 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2012, 05:00:19 AM »

Quote from: flagman1776 on June 23, 2012, 03:31:07 AM

I will not try this. My fear is (as the previous poster expressed sealing for blasting) that the flexibility would seal the bore too well, all "windage" is gone, and what is left might prove to be a bomb. I may be wrong, but I have no desire to go there.

same here.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2012, 08:09:37 AM »

We have shot them using a sling (David and Goliath type thing). Problem is the balloon will not hold it's shape when accelerated at a high rate and even if wadded would tend to fill any gaps between the wad and the bore and thus rupture the balloon. You'd likely get a blast of water out but no flight down-range. We've been successful by replacing the the normal patch on the sling with a PVC slip type pipe cap. The cap retains the balloon and stabilizes it through the acceleration part of the rotation until the loosed line is released and lets the cap tip to release the balloon. I think if someone could come up with a shotgun style wad (the kind with the plastic fingers extending up around the shot load) shooting a water balloon would be very doable...

GOW

keith44 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2012, 01:00:25 PM »

I was just thinking sabot but shot cup and wad might work

Cannoneer · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2012, 02:52:16 PM »

Quote from: carmy53 on June 21, 2012, 11:56:25 AM

If I get a chance I will try using a water balloon in my golf ball mortar this weekend and report on the results.

I can only hope that this courageous, adventurous, and stalwart member (that’s right folks, our own carmy53) comes back from this extremely hazardous experiment, with the same sound mind and body that he possessed before he heroically decided to conduct this invaluable research.

Carmy53,
In all seriousness, I am curious to know if all traces of the water would be blown from the bore.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2012, 02:58:28 PM »

Quote from: gunsonwheels on June 23, 2012, 08:09:37 AM

We have shot them using a sling (David and Goliath type thing). Problem is the balloon will not hold it's shape when accelerated at a high rate and even if wadded would tend to fill any gaps between the wad and the bore and thus rupture the balloon. You'd likely get a blast of water out but no flight down-range. We've been successful by replacing the the normal patch on the sling with a PVC slip type pipe cap. The cap retains the balloon and stabilizes it through the acceleration part of the rotation until the loosed line is released and lets the cap tip to release the balloon. I think if someone could come up with a shotgun style wad (the kind with the plastic fingers extending up around the shot load) shooting a water balloon would be very doable...

GOW

George,
I know that the balloon membrane would fail immediately after ignition of the charge, if not from the flame then from pressurized friction against the walls, so the only realistic way that I’d think a water balloon could actually be fired from a tube, is if it were entirely contained within a protective shell, and even then I’d think that there’d be the possibility of G-forces bursting it.

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2012, 03:19:12 PM »

I think the best way to get the balloon to take flight would be to do this. Tie the balloon to the end of a stick. Leave the end with the balloon outside the barrel and under the bore. Put the other end down the barrel. Then fire the cannon and the stick and the balloon will go flying provided it could withstand the initial take off.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2012, 04:24:11 PM »

Doc,
I think it would be highly unlikely that the water balloon could survive that kind of tug.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2012, 04:34:55 PM »

It's all theory, until someone tries it.

Start with a rediculously low charge. (Switlick - More complete cannoneer).

MY EXPERIENCE is this:

Beer can caliber mortar.

CANS filled with water.

Light charges ok.

Medium charges will expand the cans to rub the inside of the tube.

Heavier charges will split the can - not much air time either.

Water baloons? I have not tried.

gunsonwheels · « **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2012, 04:39:57 PM »

Someone has to get this to work. There are thread protector caps made in almost every imaginable size. Problem is you have to buy at least a few hundred as a minimum quantity to even run the tests. Maybe someone should ID a cap and then machine a bore to fit it. Slit the walls with a knife and make up a wad to go under it. The water will flatten on the top upon being accelerated but the balloon membrane just might stay intact...
Gota go surf for some plastic caps now...

GOW

Doc Brown. · « **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2012, 04:48:16 PM »

Quote from: Cannoneer on June 23, 2012, 04:24:11 PM

Doc,
I think it would be highly unlikely that the water balloon could survive that kind of tug.

When I was a young kid around 8 years old I used to put apples on the end of sticks and fire them into the sky. It was lots of fun.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2012, 05:08:06 PM »

The artist who fires paint filled projos at aluminum sheet, said that he sometimes has problems with the containers bursting inside the bore, so this research just might provide the answers he needs to perfect his creative technique.

onegreatshot · « **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2012, 06:05:52 PM »

what about a condom instread of a ballon, long skinny with a point on the end?

Blaster · « **Reply #23 on:** June 24, 2012, 03:18:52 AM »

Quote from: onegreatshot on June 23, 2012, 06:05:52 PM

what about a condom instread of a ballon, long skinny with a point on the end?

Since I am now 75 years of age, you probably won't find those around my house.

armorer77 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 24, 2012, 05:28:25 AM »

I did once fire a can of beer in my Can mortar . It pretty much vaporized at the muzzle . Ed

carmy53 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 24, 2012, 06:07:09 AM »

Well, I tried out using a water balloon as wadding this morning. I was hoping this would work because I liked the idea of shooting a blank load that wouldn't send burning debris down range. Unfortunately the results were less than spectacular. The sound was more like a "poof" than a "boom". I wasn't able to get the balloon all the way down the barrel so that it rested on top of the powder because I was afraid it would break. That may have contributed to the poor results.

keith44 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 24, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »

a valiant effort though, thanks for sharing

keith44 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 24, 2012, 10:47:10 AM »

Quote from: armorer77 on June 24, 2012, 05:28:25 AM

I did once fire a can of beer in my Can mortar . It pretty much vaporized at the muzzle . Ed

you're not supposed to open them first

BoomLover · « **Reply #28 on:** June 24, 2012, 10:53:42 AM »

Is the object of the water balloon to provide compression to the powder, and resistance when fired? Just wondering if a balloon filled with what it was designed for, "Air", and stuffed down tight against the powder provide the compression your looking for? And perhaps a water balloon on top of that, for further resistance? Never tried it, just wondering.....

jeeper1 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 24, 2012, 11:16:16 AM »

Why not wrap a thin sheet of cardboard around a balloon for loading and/or launching?