HUndreds more KY coal miners out of work.

[powderman]

http://www.wdrb.com/story/18857040/displaced-coal-miners-face-bleak-job-prospects
 
 
Brings it to about 1500 so far this year. The obaminations plan is coming together. Our govornor is livid over the obaminations new rules designed to shut the mines down. POWDERMAN. 

[scootrd]

And how is Obama admin being blamed for a mild winter , played out mines,  and less demand for steam coal because utilities are switching to alternative fuels sources. ? Utilities have been retrofitting and putting in place upgrades and processes to make a switch to more fuel efficient alternative clean air power sources for over a decade now, Long before Obama.

Unless you are trying to tie clean air act regulation limits of sulfur dioxide , nitrogen dioxide, mercury and greenhouse gas emissions from new power plants to Obama Admin. 

The share of U.S. electricity that comes from coal is forecast to fall below 40 percent for 2012, Four years ago, it was 50 percent. By the end of this decade, it is likely to be near 30 percent.

Arch's announcement is the latest such action by regional coal producers hit hard by a mild winter, the mining-out of the best quality reserves, competition from Wyoming and Illinois, extremely low natural gas prices, and new limits on toxic pollution from coal-fired power plants.

I wish all the best for the laid off KY miners in these tough economic times.

Semper fi

[powderman]

Most of the probs the coal companies have are obummers new EPA regs, not a mild winter, according to the tv news here.  POWDERMAN. 

[scootrd]

In a prepared statement, Arch Coal cited "the unprecedented downturn in demand for coal-based electricity" as the reason for its moves. This trend has been going on for years.

[nomosendero]

Yes, it was a prepared statement!

[stimpylu32]

Most of the probs the coal companies have are obummers new EPA regs, not a mild winter, according to the tv news here.  POWDERMAN. 

And they always tell the truth !
 
stimpy

[crustylicious]

Power plants that burn coal produce more than 90 times as much sulfur dioxide, five times as much nitrogen oxide and twice as much carbon dioxide as those that run on natural gas, according to the Government Accountability Office, the regulatory arm of Congress. Sulfur dioxide causes acid rain; nitrogen oxides cause smog; and carbon dioxide is a so-called greenhouse gas that traps heat in the atmosphere.
A pair of clean air rules enacted by the Environmental Protection Agency over the past year tightens limits on power-plant emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide, and place new limits on mercury, a poison found in coal. This will force between 32 and 68 of the dirtiest and oldest coal plants in the country to close over the next three years as the rules go into effect, according to an AP survey of power plant operators conducted late last year.
In what could be an even bigger environmental blow to coal, the EPA in March issued guidelines that could limit greenhouse gas emissions from new power plants.
Robert Ukeiley, an environmental lawyer in Berea, Ky., said it's ridiculous to blame environmental regulations for the coal industry's struggles. He said those rules are "completely reasonable," have been decades in the making and are a "moral no-brainer."
"The fact is that cheap coal in central Appalachia has been mined out," he said. "That's just a fiscal fact. There is no politician who can change that or scapegoat anybody."
Remaining coal supplies tend to be more expensive to extract and aren't as profitable, he said.
"Central Appalachia would be experiencing almost as much decline in coal mining even if we had the most anti-environmental president of our history in place," Ukeiley said.
The EPA said in a statement that coal is still expected to generate more of the country's electricity than any other fuel source. It pointed to low natural gas prices, low electricity demand and rising coal prices as factors in reducing demand.
"Market conditions in the power sector are driving business decisions that are completely independent from these long-overdue toxic pollution standards, which power plants do not need to meet until 2016," the agency said in the statement.
 
http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/ap/energy/coal-official-says-arch-coal-plans-layoffs-in-ky/nPbtS/
 
Plus they're all union miners. Probably grossly overpaid and asking for so much that coal companies can't compete w/ natural gas!
We should be happy to see these union bloodsuckers forced to find a regular job like a regular person!

[stimpylu32]

And why are they Union miners , that was the only way that they could get a fair shake from the mine owners , The miners union was formed to address unsafe work sites and to abolish the " Company Store " were miners were forced to live in company supplied housing , buy only from the company store and all at GROSSLY over charged prices !
 
How do I know this , I have family that has worked the coal in WV & Ky for over 100 years , some have dies in the mines and others just flat broke down from being treated little better than SLAVES ! 
 
Stimpy

[DDZ]

Coal miners being laid off doesn't have a dang thing to do with a warm winter. It has everything to do with Obama and the EPA. Wonder if the UMW unions will vote for Obama this time. I hate to say it, but they are reaping what they helped sow.
There are five coal fired power plants to be shut down in PA over the next three years, because of EPA regulations.
These power plants have spent billions to meet EPA regs in the past. Now the EPA comes along and says it isn't good enough. Coal fired plants could scrub every bit of surfer from their emissions, and the EPA would still say it isn't good enough. There is a drive to rid the US of burning fossil fuels, and it doesn't have a thing to do with clean air.
Maybe the miners will get to continue mining coal because other countries are building coal fired plants, with a need for coal. Think your electric bill is high now, just wait its going to get higher.   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IwuICbZcVk&feature=fvwrel

[powderman]

DDZ, STIMPY. Good posts guys and true. Sourdough told of a NEW power plant in AK that never got into action because of obummers new regs, a plant badly needed but abandonded the plan instead of spending even more $millions to make obummer happy. Change?? YEP, we got it. All part of obummers plan to destroy us.  POWDERMAN. 

[DDZ]

DDZ....shutting down coal fired power plants shifts fueling to natural gas and nuclear sources.  Why do you think there's Lobbiest lurking around Congress/Washington...!!.  BTW,,,,ever been to that Hillsborough coal powered plant outside of Tampa, known for a manatee herd in the cooling lagoon...Quite impressive. .They burn 50 carloads of soft coal a day and use as many cars of lime to scrub out sulfur.  I can't say that it really looked like a clean operation....I left with a really bad cough and sore throat.
.
.
..TM7

Yes I see natural gas and nuclear power as a good thing, but what will it cost these power companies to transfer to natural gas? Don't think that the EPA is softer on companies that burn natural gas. There are still a mountain of regs for companies that do so. I work for a company that runs natural gas fired 2500HP engines. The EPA clean air standards are to the point of unbelievable, and the company I work for has spent millions in compliance to comply to the ever changing standards that the EPA bureaucracy writes down.   
Other countries are building nuclear plants. Where are ours? There hasn't been a nuclear plant built in 30 years. It all sounds great. Just shut down coal fired plants and if they want to produce power make them convert to gas. Who is going to fund all this? Power companies don't have endless piles of money lying around to do this. All their extra money has been soaked up by complying to the EPA regs.
You can't shut down all the coal fired power plants and not have it affect the cost of electric. Generally the people that are all in on this will be the first to whine when their electric bill goes sky high.
The idea that the EPA likes the burning of gas is wrong also. Its not going to stop at coal. They will not be happy until the whole country side is covered with windmills. Like I said it doesn't have a dang thing to do with clean air. Our air is cleaner than its ever been, but it will never be good enough.   

[powderman]

Like I said it doesn't have a dang thing to do with clean air. Our air is cleaner than its ever been, but it will never be good enough.   

 
BINGO. POWDERMAN. 

[scootrd]

Plus they're all union miners. Probably grossly overpaid and asking for so much that coal companies can't compete w/ natural gas!
We should be happy to see these union bloodsuckers forced to find a regular job like a regular person!

Anyone who thinks a miner (Union or otherwise) are drawing too much pay is just plain out to lunch, and has no knowledge of the mining industry, nor mining contracts.  The average beltman makes about $16.00 an hour. Equipment operators are around $20.00. Surface miners are around 15.00 . Then you can start deducting for taxes, healthy care etc... The average miner works about 60 hours a week , they make ends meet by working overtime. You crawl your ass into a hole union or otherwise for that much money then come back and let me know if your getting paid too much. - Nuff said.

"The fact is that cheap coal in central Appalachia has been mined out," he said. "That's just a fiscal fact. There is no politician who can change that or scapegoat anybody." Remaining coal supplies tend to be more expensive to extract and aren't as profitable, he said. "Central Appalachia would be experiencing almost as much decline in coal mining even if we had the most anti-environmental president of our history in place," Ukeiley said.  -  Just a plain fact

[DDZ]

I don't believe anyone said anything about a coal miner making to much money because of their union. I'm sure you know that Crusty was being sarcastic.
Miners unions today are not the same unions of years ago. The unions today have to many politicians in their pockets, and they lead their members astray with lies. What reason would the union have for telling their members to vote for the democrat? Or what reason would the members have for voting for the democrat, after the democrat said he was going to make it to expensive for companies to burn coal? No matter what the circumstances, its always unions and democrats. They just go hand in hand.   

[hotrunner]

I don't believe anyone said anything about a coal miner making to much money because of their union. I'm sure you know that Crusty was being sarcastic.
Miners unions today are not the same unions of years ago. The unions today have to many politicians in their pockets, and they lead their members astray with lies. What reason would the union have for telling their members to vote for the democrat? Or what reason would the members have for voting for the democrat, after the democrat said he was going to make it to expensive for companies to burn coal? No matter what the circumstances, its always unions and democrats. They just go hand in hand.

  Union members vote for Democrats because Republicans - especially modern day ones - are by nature inclined to use the backs and brains of others to enrich themselves.
  Don't think we still need unions? Remember the 29 miners who died in the W. Va. Upper Big Branch mine a couple years back? Think that was "the union's fault", as fat druggie Rush Limbaugh once claimed? Fact is, there was no union there. The workers did, indeed vote twice for one (a 2-1 vote for) but management threatened them with firing both times. (Union rescuers were even denied access to assist by the company after the tragedy.) CEO Blankenship "retired" with 75 million dollars, but other supervisors and managers have since been indicted for criminal violations, mostly due to the cover-up and lying to investigators (the mine had frequent safety violations in the past, including high methane levels that were ignored by mgt.) Unions mines are statistically far safer than scab mines. After the tragedy, the mine went into receivership and everyone lost their jobs, (although another co. may have started it back up recently.) So, if the company had listened to the "whiny" workers and the "oppressive over-regulating gov't.", 29 workers would still be alive and the mine would have never missed a beat financially.
  Fact is, we need unions now more than ever.