Author Topic: mold lap or not?  (Read 704 times)

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Offline Doctor Sam

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mold lap or not?
« on: February 03, 2004, 04:23:56 PM »
Here is another for you guys: My Steyr M95 carbine bore mikes 0.331".  I bought one of Lee Precision's molds for this 8X56R which is advertised at 205 grains and 0.329".  Using WW dropped in water they are 0.330".  This is a gas checked bullet.  I also have Lee's push through sizer/seater combo which is 0.329" and that is how they come out.  Since the general consensus seems to be that cast bullets need to be overbore, should I try to lap this mold out to 0.331/0.332"?  If so, how would they shoot without the GC and lubed with the liquid alox?  
Anyone own a Steyr and shoot cast bullets?  Does one or two thousandths really make a difference?  
Probably best to load some, go to the range, shoot them and find out. :?
Please let me know your thoughts.
Many thanks.
Doctor Sam
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Offline cooper

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mold lap or not?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2004, 04:41:53 AM »
If you want to try something else first, to get a bigger bullet try this (this is not my idea - I learned it from some other poster - I forget who):

Get some high-temp aluminum tape (at WalMart in the paint section).  You can get a small roll for about $2.50.  Cut out two pieces of tape about 1" long and 1/4" wide.  Peel off the tape backing and put the tape on the inside of your mould, one piece vertically in front of the bullet cavity (at least 3/8" away from the cavity), and the other piece vertically in back of the bullet cavity.  This tape will hold the cavity apart very slightly.

When you first start to cast with this setup, some of the tape adhesive will melt with the heat.  Watch it carefully and when the leaking adhesive starts to get near the bullet cavity, stop casting, let the mould cool, and wipe off the adhesive with solvent.  You should be able to get about 25 bullets before the leaking adhesive gets too close to the cavity.  

The second time you cast, you will still probably get some leaking adhesive.  But by the third time, everything should be OK to cast for as along as you want.

Your bullets will be about .001" larger in diameter.  You can go even bigger if you want (.002") if you put four pieces of tape in the cavity.  Just put the other two pieces directly across from the first two, so that each piece of tape bears on another piece of tape when the mould is closed.

This works great!

Offline Nobade

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mold lap or not?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2004, 10:02:26 AM »
You need to measure (slug) the throat and neck area of the chamber first, to decide what size the bullets need to be (throat dia.) and if they will chamber (neck dia.) and go from there. You need to make darn sure you get a clean release from that throat sized bullet. Some chambers will, some won't. I never worry about groove diameter; it's the throat that matters the most.
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Offline Leftoverdj

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mold lap or not?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2004, 10:19:56 AM »
I have never gotten GC designs to shoot worth a whoop without the GC. I've lapped both moulds and sixing dies and have been happy with the results. You really need a lathe to get the shank straight and centered in the bullet(s) you use as a lap. You can lap the sizing die just by coating cull bullets with Clover Compound and running then through the die.
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Offline John Traveler

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lapping bullet sizing die
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2004, 11:06:00 AM »
Doc Sam,

YES, a thousandth or two of difference in bullet diameter can and usually DOES make all the difference in the world between an accurate load and a mediocre one.

I'd start by lapping out the bullet sizing die as described using a brass rod lad and fine Clover valve grinding compound.  That would be a lot less work than the other processes.

I've not tried the tape-between-the-bullet-mold trick, but that might work too.

Many military rifles in 7.9 x 57 have very deep grooves with wide lands.  That can hlep an undersized bullet shoot well.

You NEED the gas check to make the bullet base perfect.  I've tried loading and shooting gas-checked bullets without the gas checks too, and always got poor accuracy, leading, etc.

And lastly, using a softer alloy can allow the bullet to "slug up" to bore diameter and give you good accuracy, even if it is undersized.

HTH
John
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Offline Orygun Mark

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mold lap or not?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2004, 05:02:03 PM »
Doctor Sam,
   I shoot cast in my 2 M95's. I size down .338 and .336 bullets to .331/.332 in a lyman sizer die I opened up. One bullet is pb and the other is gc. Both of my M95's have a .330 bore. Since I have a limited amount of boxer brass made from 45/70 I've only shot about 50 rounds. so far so good but I am still working up loads.   Mark

Offline Doctor Sam

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Lap mold
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2004, 07:05:59 AM »
Thanks, Gentlemen, for all your replies.
Noblade, here are some numbers for you:
Throat is 0.347".
Length of throat is 0.354".
Bore is .331".
Now tell me what to do.
I don't think a 0.347" bullet would chamber as it would be 0.016" over bore diameter and would engrave on the lands.

Doctor Sam
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Offline Goatlips

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mold lap or not?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2004, 07:01:42 PM »
Hay cooper, that's called "Beagling", don't that ring a bell?  :wink:  

Goatlips
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Offline Leftoverdj

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mold lap or not?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2004, 07:25:24 AM »
.347 is mighty near neck size. If your throat really is that big, you don't have a prayer of fitting the bullet to the throat, and you're gonna have to go with bullets just over bore size, .332 or .333.

Going to lino or adding antimony to your WW just might get you to .332, but it sure looks like you are going to need to lap the sizing die. Probably be a good idea to lap or beagle the mould, too, whichever you are more comfortable doing.
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Offline cooper

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mold lap or not?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2004, 04:17:20 AM »
Yep! - I remember now.  Is Beagle still around?