Author Topic: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?  (Read 6567 times)

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Offline Conan The Librarian

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I'm not surprised in the least. The trend is toward more power for the federal government.
 
What do you think will happen now?
 
I really don't know. I think they should just start over from scratch.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 03:56:16 AM »
i  like the individual mandate


AS LONG AS IT IS EQUALLY ENFORCED


meaining the POOR pay their FARE SHARE


there is no mandate  it is just one more wealth redistribution sceme
rob the rich....feed the peasants
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 03:57:47 AM »
I've only been able to skim the news on it so far, but it looks like an expansion of the income tax system to me. I guess this means there will be prosperous people and a middle class paying for the other 50+% of the country's health insurance soon, and employers will be burndened with an expense similar to the social security and workmans comp systems. That ought to be great for the economy!
 
Meanwhile, payments to doctors will go down and will be payed even slower than they are now.
 
I predict that this will redefine medical care in the US: Any doctor with his head bolted on straight will specialize in treating only patients who can pay for their service either directly or by a means that circumvents the the federal system. Otherwise the incentives to remain in practice are too small and the burdens are too great.
 
I have to disagree with you 45-70. I like the concept of an indivudual mandate where everybody pays their fair share for health care. This is not about health care. This is about funding a federal bureucracy and a kind of fake insurance that doesn't yield services when they are needed. It's just a money pit. No different that what we pay into the UN, but on a much larger scale.
 
FD Roosevelt's socialism and Lyndon Johnson's great society ideals just collapsed today under the weight of an onerous system that cannot be sustained.

Offline crustylicious

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Supreme Court upholds health care law
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 04:03:44 AM »
In a dramatic victory for President Barack Obama, the Supreme Court upheld the 2010 health care law Thursday, preserving Obama’s landmark legislative achievement.
 
http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/28/12457822-supreme-court-upholds-health-care-law?lite&GT1=43001
 
 
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Offline SwampThing762

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Obamacare is upheld by SCOTUS..........we're screwed.........
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 04:03:48 AM »
It is official....Obama will preside over greatest tax increases in Ameican history.

Supreme Court upholds individual mandate, ObamaCare survives
The Supreme Court has upheld the centerpiece of President Obama's health care overhaul, in effect allowing the law to survive.
In a 5-4 decision unveiled Thursday, the court ruled as constitutional the so-called individual mandate requiring most Americans to obtain health insurance starting in 2014.
The ruling is a victory for the president, ensuring for now that his signature domestic policy achievement remains mostly intact. It also ensures that the law will play a prominent role in the general election campaign, as Republican candidate Mitt Romney vows to repeal the law if elected.
Obama is expected to speak publicly about the ruling later in the day.
Chief Justice John Roberts, who was appointed during a Republican administration, joined the four left-leaning justices on the bench in crafting the majority decision.
The ruling relied on a technical explanation of how the individual mandate could be categorized. Roberts, in the opinion, said the mandate could not be upheld under the Constitution's Commerce Clause. However, it could be upheld under the government's power to tax.
"The Affordable Care Act is constitutional in part and unconstitutional in part  The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress's power under the Commerce Clause," Roberts wrote. "That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage it. In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax."
The ruling did rein in one element of the law -- the expansion of Medicaid across the country to take in millions of low-income Americans. The opinion allows Washington to offer more funding to states to expand the program, but says the federal government cannot penalize states for not participating in the new program by withholding existing Medicaid funds.
Democrats, many of whom were bracing for the court striking down the mandate, celebrated the decision Thursday.
Rep. Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., told Fox News that the ruling "gives us the opportunity to re-sell the the bill, which we did not do before."
But Republicans vowed to re-double their campaign to repeal the still-controversial law.
"Today's ruling underscores the urgency of repealing this harmful law in its entirety," House Speaker John Boehner said in a statement. "Republicans stand ready to work with a president who will listen to the people and will not repeat the mistakes that gave our country ObamaCare."
Justice Anthony Kennedy, who was thought to be the swing vote on the decision, joined the minority in describing the entire law as invalid.
"The act is invalid in its entirety," Kennedy said from the bench. He went on to say the administration went to "great lengths to structure the mandate as a penalty, not a tax" -- challenging the majority's rationale for upholding the mandate.
Despite the persistent resistance to the law and the possibility that it could still be repealed, the historic decision Thursday will offer some measure of vindication for Obama, who devoted the first half of his term to pushing it through Congress.
The overhaul was one of the central planks of Obama's 2008 run for president. The faltering economy only later took a leading role in the race as the financial markets spiraled around the time of the party conventions. Obama, after taking the oath of office, dispatched with his administration's recession response by swiftly passing through the roughly $800 billion stimulus package.
The president immediately pivoted back to health care. He tasked allies in Congress with working out the specifics of a proposal, a process that would play out on the national stage over the course of a year.
As the economy continued to struggle, the debate over the health care bill became increasingly contentious. The financial industry bailout helped spawn the Tea Party, but that movement also rallied around opposition to the health care bill -- it was assailed by critics as a "takeover" of American health care, even as Democrats backed off items on their original wish list such as a government-run insurance plan.
The January 2010 election of Massachusetts Sen. Scott Brown, to fill the seat left by the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, threw a wrench into Democrats' plans as it gave Republicans enough seats to mount a filibuster. The Senate had already passed one version of the bill, but this put pressure on the House to effectively approve it or watch their goal of health care reform wither.
Ultimately, Democrats worked out a series of deals and approved the bill, which Obama signed, delivering on a central campaign promise. But only after a protracted and politically damaging debate, which contributed heavily to Democratic losses in the 2010 midterm elections.
The decision Thursday virtually guarantees the health care law will remain at the forefront of the 2012 campaign.
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 04:35:17 AM »
read  ''AS LONG AS......''
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

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Offline saddlebum

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 04:45:37 AM »
I’m STUNNED, SHOCKED, OUTRAGED and DEPRESSED!!!
 
With this decision, you can kiss all of our American freedoms goodbye! America is officially gone!
 
COME ON!!……Not even most Dems thought the individual mandate would stand!
Every branch of our government is now corrupt and anti-Constitution. The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves today...........
 
So much for "job creation". Many real job creators were just waiting to see how this would go before they decided to expand, stay the same, or fold. This is not the answer they were looking for.
 
I wonder how many Americans realize how distructive this is to America? Progressives will run with this decision and spread this freedom taking, economic disaster to every aspect of our lives. If we thought Obama and Pelosi were arrogant before, just watch them from now on.

We are now, “Communist America”.
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

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Offline mcbammer

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 04:50:58 AM »
Their   calling   it  a   tax  . 

Offline saddlebum

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 04:52:57 AM »
Their   calling   it  a   tax  .

Well let’s see. . .  What’s next?  The federal government can now “tax” me if I don’t buy a hybrid car; they can “tax” me if I don’t buy solar panels for my house; they can “tax” me if I don’t buy sun screen, etc.  I am officially a puppet.
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

“OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER."           John Adams

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 04:57:50 AM »
Income tax taken out before one got paid was established during WWII.  It was chalenged in court.  One employer said that they shouldn't have to deduct income tax and send it in to the government.  It was their job to collect the taxes.  Court ruled in favor of the government saying because of the war emergency, it was more efficient for the government to have employers take out the taxes.  If it was challenged AFTER the war, it might have been ruled unconstitutional. 
 
Fast forward.  Everyone now is MANDATED to buy their own health care.  If they don't, the government can tax those who don't to cover a government (Medicaid) fund for them.  Everyone will have to pay, no free lunches.  Doctors didn't have to take Medicare or Medicaid.  They might be forced to now.  Don't know.  Payment will probably be based on income, just like the income tax. 
 
This will further take money out of peoples pockets and delay any recovery from the recession.  It also takes away the individuals freedom of choice.  Of course Muslims and Amish are not required to pay since insurance is against their religions.  In the Amish community, offerings are taken up to cover their members loses or needs.  Muslims say health care should be free to all good Muslims, so bascially it is government paid for in their countries. 
 
We are slowly loosing our freedoms, incrementally.  We now live in a socialist America.  If Dems are in control and move too far left, it is slanted toward communism.  If GOP is in control and moves too far right, it is slanted toward Nazis.  Both extremes are bad.  IF we don't take back America and allow freedoms, limited federal government, we will eventually be under one or the other. 
 
The middle class has been lost the last 25 years, starting with Bush I.  Free trade agreements, allowing China "most favored nation trade status" etc, has gutted our manufacturing base, thus the middle class.  Factories privided health care insurance, good enough pay to keep people off welfare and food stamps.  Ross Perot had it right, the giant sucking sound has taken our jobs. 
 
The majority (65%) did not want Obamacare.  It was forced on us whether we wanted it or not.  Our health care will now degrade because of the following:
 
1) The millions of Americans who did not have health care will now be forced to by it or have a government mandated tax to cover them.
2) Doctors will be forced to accept the millions of patients, thus creating long waits and lines to see a doctor.
3) Quality of care will go down due to the overload of the system.
4) Program doesn't add new doctors, nurses, or facilities for these new patients. 
5) People on Medicare or Medicaid will not be allowed to buy add on policies to increase their quality of care. 
6) Government employees are exempt from the law, like congressmen, senators, and the president.  (since they are royalty now). 
 
So long to American exceptionalism   

Offline mcbammer

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 04:58:47 AM »
You   cant   force   people   to   buy   somthing   they   dont   want  .   BUT   they  (  government )   can   impose  a  tax  which   can  be   enforced.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Supreme Court upholds health care law
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 05:18:13 AM »
What I find most interesting is "This is called the Roberts court"  Conservative Chief Justice Roberts appointed by Bush , and it was conservative Chief Justice Roberts who cast the deciding vote to uphold the mandate not Kennedy.
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Offline hardertr

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 05:23:47 AM »
Unless I'm WAY off the mark, this looks to me like the government is putting more freedom and choice in our hands.  We have the option to fund our own health insurance, OR we can "freeload" off the government by paying an extra 1% (which is dirt cheap compared to the cost of health insurance for most).  Nowhere does it say we have to pay any extra to carry the freeloaders who are so financially irresponsible that they don't want to take out a health policy to pay their own way.


Why is it so hard to just come out and say "either take out a private policy, or hope to God your doctor is willing to work out a payment plan with you.  If you choose neither, then you go without."


Get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.  Put that extra change in the employees pocket and force them to either take care of their own affairs....or face the consequences.
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 05:27:25 AM »
You   cant   force   people   to   buy   somthing   they   dont   want  .   BUT   they  (  government )   can   impose  a  tax  which   can  be   enforced.

Only if Congress passes it. It was not sold as a "tax" by Obama, but a "penality". He was adamant about that when pushing it down our throats. It could be defunded by Congress as a "tax".
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: Obamacare is upheld by SCOTUS..........we're screwed.........
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 05:37:08 AM »
If the "mandate" is labeled a "tax" as Roberts said, Congress could defund it by not passing the new "tax". It's not over yet. But what Roberts did by pooping on the Constitution is reprehensable!
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Offline mcbammer

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2012, 05:52:21 AM »
You   cant   force   people   to   buy   somthing   they   dont   want  .   BUT   they  (  government )   can   impose  a  tax  which   can  be   enforced.

Only if Congress passes it. It was not sold as a "tax" by Obama, but a "penality". He was adamant about that when pushing it down our throats. It could be defunded by Congress as a "tax".
The   ?  is   now    what    percentage   our    paycheck   is   deducted   for   healthcare.

Offline wganz

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Re: Obamacare is upheld by SCOTUS..........we're screwed.........
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2012, 05:53:05 AM »
This labeled as Insurance in Congress ~> argued by POTUS lawyers as a tax before SCOTUS is how we got saddled with the Social Security Insurance monstrosity.

Hopefully, enough people will get fired up over this pile of stinky stuffs that we wash the hall of Congress out in 4 months.

Offline wganz

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Re: Supreme Court upholds health care law
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2012, 05:53:37 AM »
Took away 0bama's talking point that 4 white guys and a conservative Oreo took away their free stuffs.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2012, 06:01:10 AM »
What percentage? It's a complex answer. There are actually two percentages:
1) The part you are mandated to pay and for which you get nothing
2) What you actually pay to get real medical care.
Two totally different things.

Offline powderman

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Re: Obamacare is upheld by SCOTUS..........we're screwed.........
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2012, 06:04:11 AM »
I saw it was 5-4 but evidently missed which ones supported it. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Obamacare is upheld by SCOTUS..........we're screwed.........
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2012, 06:05:35 AM »
I agree, we're screwed.
This is further proof that voting for a Republican president does not necessarily equal conservative Supreme court justice apointments i.e. George Bush appointing John Roberts.
The house and senate elections will be critical this year.
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Offline bkraft

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2012, 06:17:25 AM »
I truly believe that this could be a golden opportunity to finally bring about the end of this administration. Now is the time to hammer them on the economy, not immigration, not health care, the economy. Force the issue, DO NOT let them rest, the economy is and will be the key to November. The Republicans have got to be smart enough, tough enough and dedicated enough to stay the course... the economy. If they falter, if their resolve weakens, if even for an instant they take their eyes off the ball that is the economy, then this moment will slip away.
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Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2012, 06:23:56 AM »
It may not be over yet.

As a "tax" nobody can challenge its consititutanilaty until someone actually pays it. As such this ruling only kicks the can down the road till 2015 when the penalties go into effect.

I can see the ads now since the SCOTUS has labeled this a tax. "President Obama signed into law the biggest tax increase in American HISTORY"

Offline mcbammer

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2012, 06:40:40 AM »
Roberts   ruling   may   have   just   handed   the   Whitehouse   to  Romney.   Could   he   have   conceived  this   in  his   decision.  If  so   he   may   be   taking   criticism   he   dont   deserve.  Was   his   decision  a   covert   move ?

Offline ironglow

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2012, 06:42:15 AM »
  The beginning of the end for our freedom and constitution..  Our founding fathers designed a government to be intentionally small and less obtrusive in the citizen's lives, allowing maximum freedom for the individual.  They had experienced enough dictatorial govt under King George III and his progenitor monarchs, so they wanted no more of it.
   Alexander Tytler was so perceptive when he outlined the pattern for the rise, decline and fall of the various cultures through the ages...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
   The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
 
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  • From spiritual faith to great courage;
  • From courage to liberty;
  • From liberty to abundance;
  • From abundance to selfishness;
  • From selfishness to complacency;
  • From complacency to apathy;
  • From apathy to dependence;
  • From dependence back into bondage.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 06:48:42 AM »
Their   calling   it  a   tax  .

Well let’s see. . .  What’s next?  The federal government can now “tax” me if I don’t buy a hybrid car; they can “tax” me if I don’t buy solar panels for my house; they can “tax” me if I don’t buy sun screen, etc.  I am officially a puppet.

no not a puppet or citizen YOU ARE NOW A SUBJECT !!!!!!!!!!!!
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2012, 07:22:16 AM »
Quote
Roberts   ruling   may   have   just   handed   the   Whitehouse   to  Romney.

I've been saying on here that (before this happened today) that Obama wouldn't have much competition.  After seeing this today I agree with your statement.  Obama just pushed a whole bunch of Independants off the fence and into Romney's arms.  Hell honestly I'm giving an hard thought to voting Romney instead of write in right now just to insure this s.o.b gets tossed on his ass in November.  But the only way voting Romney in as president will do anything is if we elect a Republican majority in Congress as well.
Silver lining maybe?  We'll see.
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Offline magooch

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2012, 07:39:04 AM »
In a strange way, I actually find myself sort of agreeing with some of what this decision does.  I agree that everyone should be responsible for their own medical costs.  I believe that Justice Roberts was right that it is not the Supreme Court's job to invalidate what the Congress and the President legislate.  The only problem with that is that it probably wouldn't stand if a conservative Congress and President were to enact something that conservatives thought was important.
 
There are some other quesions that are still unanswered. Will illegals have to pay "the tax?" Will illegals and deadbeats still be able to demand treatment without being able to pay at hospitals?  Why would millionaires and billionaires need to carry health insurance?  Never mind, I know the reason for that.
 
And finally, I think that Saddlebum is on to something.  Since the whole of Obamacare depends on it being financed by a "tax", it should be much simpler
for a conservative Congress and a President who has vowed to repeal the damn thing, to actually get it done.  Kill the tax, you kill the bill.  And if there is one thing that kills freedom and liberty, it is taxes and fees. 
 
Will communism survive the next election? Will America be defeated from within as Kruschev predicted?
 
 
Swingem

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2012, 08:57:45 AM »
Well, mandating everyone have insurance will overload the system without adding new doctors, nurses, equipment, and facilities to handle the overload.  So, the tax will increase to try to "expand" coverage and add more doctors.  So much for lower costs.  Taxes will go up.  Government is already spending more than they take in.  More taxes mean less money for "spending" our way our of recession.  Say hello to higher inflation, higher taxes.  China is slowing down buying our debt because their economy is shrinking also.  No one to buy more cheap products.  Everyone should read "Patriots, Surviving the Coming colapse" by Rawls.  Everything is happening already.  Do we have enough "Patriots" to get our country back?
 
Now that the government can tax our "choices" and not just our income or tax things when we buy them, they can tax bad food so we will be forced to eat their "good food".  They can tax red meat, anything with fat or sugar in it.  Whatever they want to tax to force us to change.  They can tax our ammo, powder, bullets, and brass if they can't outlaw guns.   They can tax SUV's but not hybrids.  They can raise these taxes as high as they can push.  It is coming.  Why did Obama hire several thousand IRS agents with this health care bill.  So they can force us to pay one way or another for our so called health care. 
 
Also, there are boards to decide what treatment can or cannot be used for people, depending on how valuable they are to society.  (Death panels).  No matter whether you have insurance or not.  The "board" and Health Department director can decide on what type if any treatment(s), not you, your doctor, and your insurance.

Offline Gary G

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Re: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 09:03:47 AM »
It is a prime product of an interventionist government. It was government intervention that caused the whole health care mess that we now have. Now, you have an example of what they always do: that is to intervene to fix the problems they caused which will result in even greater problems later. An interventionist government is always terminal in the long run. Watch Europe's death spiral in progress now.


There is nothing anyone can do short of a revolution and the people aren't ready yet. The ingrained generation spurned Ron Paul didn't they?
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State. They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.” — Frederic Bastiat