Author Topic: What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court? (Read 6452 times)

Hooker · « **Reply #60 on:** June 29, 2012, 04:58:36 AM »

Death to all tyrants VIVA LA REVOLUTION

rickt300 · « **Reply #61 on:** June 29, 2012, 05:47:13 AM »

There is an insurance exchange set up for the freeloaders, neat huh!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #62 on:** June 29, 2012, 06:16:07 AM »

this is an enormous situation
there are no right answers
some will win some will loose
no matter what freedoms are lost
the government will only make it worse and more complicated as usually
the government will loose 2 rich peoples votes to BUY 12 parasitic votes
we have yet to see the many unintended consequences....unles the democraps are eliminated

just anther nanny-state wealth re-distribution scheme

scootrd · « **Reply #63 on:** June 29, 2012, 08:36:51 AM »

Quote from: Buckskin on June 29, 2012, 03:48:26 AM

You need to read the bill, Scooter... This will force our employees, myself included to be on the government insurance. Guess what, this is Obama's plan to force everyone into the one payer system sooner or later. We probably won't do it for now, because we see the benefit of our own plan, but sooner or later they will consume us. Funny that a liberal union guy is tired of picking up the bill... That is a laugher...

point 1. ) I have read the bill. In it's entirety I might add, and nobody is forcing you as a small business owner to do anything. As a matter of fact now your employees will have a competitive choice. Stick with your employer based plan, or enter an exchange once states come on-line.

point 2. ) You make an inference somehow union guys don't pay their own way or pick up their own tab. That is just a ludicrous ignorant comment and doesn't even deserve a response. Union guys pay for their own Heathcare. only difference is now all the freeloaders will have to do the same.

Its called personal responsibility.

And if they won't get INS on their own and stop freeloading and forcing INS companies to raise my premiums to make up the neg then I personally have no problem with a mandate to ensure they do. JMHO

your debate Points to try and bait me into a personal argument regarding unions or trying to disparage are the laughter.

Every state must now create an "exchange," or online marketplace, by January 2013 that will help people shop and pay for health insurance. The law expects exchanges to begin enrolling people by Oct. 1, with coverage beginning in January 2014. Christie, who opposed the health care changes pushed by the Obama administration, vetoed legislation last month that would form an exchange in New Jersey, saying he wanted to wait until the Supreme Court determined whether the Affordable Care Act was constitutional.In the wake of the Thursday’s ruling, the Republican governor said he would now meet any deadlines imposed on the state to create the exchange.

Semper Fi

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #64 on:** June 29, 2012, 09:04:03 AM »

Personal responsibility = gov't mandates (read taxes)

I think my head is going to explode

Hooker · « **Reply #65 on:** June 29, 2012, 11:38:31 AM »

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #66 on:** June 29, 2012, 11:45:39 AM »

Lock-N-Load!

lakota · « **Reply #67 on:** June 29, 2012, 12:04:17 PM »

Still waiting for one of you Obamazombies to pause during your feast on nobrains to explain to me just why it is that certain people are not participating in Obamacare even though it is the greatest thing since flush toilets... Anyone?

scootrd · « **Reply #68 on:** June 29, 2012, 12:18:41 PM »

Quote from: R.W.Dale on June 29, 2012, 09:04:03 AM

Personal responsibility = gov't mandates (read taxes)

I think my head is going to explode

Dale this is what I don't get.

The mandate was a republican conservative idea . (you know when republicans were actually conservative and not extremist right wingers that I don't even recognize). The mandate was proposed by the heritage foundation and supported by Republicans. It was their response and alternative to the Dems proposing single payer. So finally the dems relented and said ok you convinced us we will adopt your idea for a mandate. OH boy all of a sudden their now against their own idea

If the Republicans had kept pushing for the mandate as they did initially when it was their idea, and thenif the Supreme court ruled against it . Then all these so called republicans on GB would have been up in arms because it didn't pass.

It's more about any partisan win on both sides then doing what's right. This whole issue is just crap. As McConnell said " number one priority is to make Obama one term" . hey that's fine politically . but to sell your beliefs down the river to do it just shows me , all politicians are corrupt.

Republican Party is just so lost and hijacked nowadays by nut jobs it's ridiculous. The MANDATE WAS THEIR IDEA.

POLITICIANS ARE WHACKED.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #69 on:** June 30, 2012, 01:42:38 AM »

The mandate, to me isn't the biggest problem WITH THIS PARTICULAR BILL. It is all the unnecessary junk and taxes associated with it. It doesn't address the problems of rising costs. It doesn't have a malpractice limit. It doesn't add new doctors, nurses, or facilities. It doesn't allow you to cross state lines to get a better deal on insurance. It OUTLAWS health savings accounts. It limits supplemental insurance with Medicare and Medicaid. This bill was drafted to eventually get businesses to not have insurance benefits thereby throwing people to the government for insurance. It will eventually eliminate insurance companies and it will become government insurance like in Brittain. I do not think anyone here had downloaded and read the bill. Over 1,000 pages. It is a TAX. It even taxes insurance companies that provide health care. This is one reason for the rising costs now, government interference. And it does have DEATH PANELS who will decide what type of treatment for various diseases.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #70 on:** June 30, 2012, 02:20:34 AM »

allowing obamacare to go forward will embolden the liberals who will double their efforts to get out the fraud vote which will re-elect obama. then, nothing short of an armed revolution will ever restore this country to its former greatness.
sadly, we have become a country of panty-wetting-sissies with nobody to lead us.
the SCOTUS decision actually brought a tear to my eye as I said goodby to America.

DDZ · « **Reply #71 on:** June 30, 2012, 02:23:58 AM »

All it is, and was meant to be is a transfer of power. Communism is some sick stuff, and health care issued by the state, and death panels are all part of communism. Death panels are real under government health care. The UK has them, and they are coming here. In the UK they use secret do not resuscitate orders. They delay treatment for cancer. Age of a patient is looked at before anything else, and the fact is a government health care system does not have the money to treat the elderly, and many of them have their life deemed worthless.
This evilness will start out subtle, until the protocol is to just give you a magic pill or shot, without the family even being notified. It will be common for government criminals to hurt your family to feed theirs. The reason its kept quiet, and the reason for it to start out subtle is to not get the masses in an uproar, because that would damage their plan. They have to get the masses to slowly accept it, and agree that death panels are needed so there is health care for you and your children. I figure it will be accomplished rather easy without much fuss. People are easily duped into governments plan. Just look where we are now. Many already believe that government is the answer, and provider for everything.

ironglow · « **Reply #72 on:** June 30, 2012, 02:29:56 AM »

Scoot says;
" Republican Party is just so lost and hijacked nowadays by nut jobs it's ridiculous. The MANDATE WAS THEIR IDEA."
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Yep sure ! ...And "Bush did it"..
So too did that "Wascally Wabbit"... Franklin D Roosevelt, do some things some of us don't like..

..But then so did Abraham Lincoln... Chester A. Arthur... William McKinley and William Henry Harrison... but let's try staying relevant here. We are speaking of "Obamacare"..introduced by the Chicago mob and endorsed by the Democrats... who didn't even read it before they voted to pass it !
..

Buckskin · « **Reply #73 on:** June 30, 2012, 03:21:09 AM »

Quote from: lakota on June 29, 2012, 12:04:17 PM

Still waiting for one of you Obamazombies to pause during your feast on nobrains to explain to me just why it is that certain people are not participating in Obamacare even though it is the greatest thing since flush toilets... Anyone?

The blind cannot see, the ignorant don't know how and the liberals don't want to...

Romney has stated that his first day in office he will follow suit of Obama's lead and give exemptions to all 50 States, thereby essentially killing the bill single handedly....

ironglow · « **Reply #74 on:** June 30, 2012, 03:38:48 AM »

Quote from: Buckskin on June 30, 2012, 03:21:09 AM

Quote from: lakota on June 29, 2012, 12:04:17 PM
Still waiting for one of you Obamazombies to pause during your feast on nobrains to explain to me just why it is that certain people are not participating in Obamacare even though it is the greatest thing since flush toilets... Anyone?

The blind cannot see, the ignorant don't know how and the liberals don't want to...

Romney has stated that his first day in office he will follow suit of Obama's lead and give exemptions to all 50 States, thereby essentially killing the bill single handedly....

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Yeah,... Where did this "coincidence" come from ?

We are all expected to participte in this fiasco.. except for politicians, congress, the unions an Muslims..

And BTW: How is it the obama supporters are badgering the catholics over Obamacare..but the Muslims skate free ?

Come on liberals, ...man up and answer !

Cabin4 · « **Reply #75 on:** June 30, 2012, 03:48:36 AM »

I agree with the 4 descending judges. Omabacare is an over reach by the federal government.

I also agree with the portion of the ruling that identified it as a tax. It is a tax that will impact the middle class the hardest and the lower classes will pay for it with fewer jobs and all of us with lower pay. The wealthy will not be impacted as its a drop in the bucket to them. So the real losers are the so called 99%. I guess they can get their health taken care of now for free, but more of us will be homeless and out of work.

Great work obama and the liberals!

Gary G · « **Reply #76 on:** June 30, 2012, 04:01:28 AM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on June 30, 2012, 03:48:36 AM

I agree with the 4 descending judges. Omabacare is an over reach by the federal government.

I also agree with the portion of the ruling that identified it as a tax. It is a tax that will impact the middle class the hardest and the lower classes will pay for it with fewer jobs and all of us with lower pay. The wealthy will not be impacted as its a drop in the bucket to them. So the real losers are the so called 99%. I guess they can get their health taken care of now for free, but more of us will be homeless and out of work.

Great work obama and the liberals!

Here is what you do:
Drop your health insurance coverage. Buy some cheap accident insurance. Wait until you are sick and then buy health insurance. You can't be refused. They will fine you, but they will not have an enforcement mechanism, (and if they did it would be unconstitutional), so don't pay the fine.

If you are an employer, drop insurance coverage for you employees. Pay the fine or don't. Give the the employees a raise so if they choose, they can buy insurance over the exchange. You will save money.

As you can see, it just won't work.

As always, government intervention causes unseen consequences. So there will be more intervention to find a fix for this one, and so on, until the whole system fails. Each intervention undermines the freemarket economy until it breaks. This is what governments do best.

ironglow · « **Reply #77 on:** June 30, 2012, 04:11:15 AM »

Gary G says;
"
Here is what you do:
Drop your health insurance coverage. Buy some cheap accident insurance. Wait until you are sick and then buy health insurance. You can't be refused. They will fine you, but they will not have an enforcement mechanism, (and if they did it would be unconstitutional), so don't pay the fine"
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Mmmmm....
Gary, I don't know about the 'enforcement mechanism'. Now that it is considered a "tax", remember... Obama has recruited 10,000 new IRS agents..

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #78 on:** June 30, 2012, 04:15:57 AM »

Quote from: lakota on June 29, 2012, 12:04:17 PM

Still waiting for one of you Obamazombies to pause during your feast on nobrains to explain to me just why it is that certain people are not participating in Obamacare even though it is the greatest thing since flush toilets... Anyone?

What constitutes an Obamazomb(ies)? I'd guess, but I'd rather hear it from you...

rickt300 · « **Reply #79 on:** June 30, 2012, 04:43:14 AM »

If the mandate is a tax then the bill should be voted on again with it being characterized as such.

lakota · « **Reply #80 on:** June 30, 2012, 05:02:36 AM »

For starters an Obamazombie is someone who drones on ad nauseum about how great Obamacare is going to be for all of us while at the same time ignoring Obama granting waivers to large groups of people who dont want to participate. It smacks of hypocrisy. Everyone should be in or everyone should be allowed to opt out. If Obamacare is so wonderful then why are so many politically connected groups granted immunity from it? Why aren't the sacred cows in Congress on board? Simple answer:Obamacare is a sham and will make us collectively more miserable but then again that is what liberalism is about at it's core: Shared misery.

But go ahead. Get the thread locked up get me banned whatever. That's what liberals do best when they are in an indefensible position argument wise-they shut down opposing voices.

crustylicious · « **Reply #81 on:** June 30, 2012, 05:18:04 AM »

Who was granted waviers? I am aware of some 1 year waviers to help with the transition but not of any with complete immunity.
Thanks,

scootrd · « **Reply #82 on:** June 30, 2012, 05:25:43 AM »

Well I for one hope they don't lock the thread . I value everyone's opinion even if it differs from mine.
Hopefully we can continue to openly debate .

I like the mandate , and anything else that culls freeloaders from the system so my premiums don't go higher.

Like I said it was a conservative republican idea to begin with when there was actually an animal called a conservative republican in the party.

Gary G · « **Reply #83 on:** June 30, 2012, 05:41:49 AM »

Quote from: scootrd on June 30, 2012, 05:25:43 AM

Well I for one hope they don't lock the thread . I value everyone's opinion even if it differs from mine.
Hopefully we can continue to openly debate .

I like the mandate , and anything else that culls freeloaders from the system so my premiums don't go higher.

Like I said it was a conservative republican idea to begin with when there was actually an animal called a conservative republican in the party.

Your premiums will go much higher as the insurance companies will now have to cover preexisting conditions. Since many healthy people will not take the insurance until needed and pay the fine because it is much cheaper, the distribution will be skewed leading to ballooning prices.

History has shown that socialized medicine has always led to higher prices resulting in price caps which results in waiting times and poorer medical care.

I remember when the doctor would come to your house and the charge would be minimal. This was before government intervention.

This explains the economics of government healthcare:
http://lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard295.html

lakota · « **Reply #84 on:** June 30, 2012, 05:44:34 AM »

I wasnt aware congress had only granted themselves a one year waiver

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crustylicious · « **Reply #85 on:** June 30, 2012, 05:59:51 AM »

So what you're saying is, your objection to providing health care to 52 million uninsured Americans is due to the special treatment given to 541 members of congress. Insightful!

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #86 on:** June 30, 2012, 06:00:55 AM »

Quote from: lakota on June 30, 2012, 05:02:36 AM

For starters an Obamazombie is someone who drones on ad nauseum about how great Obamacare is going to be for all of us while at the same time ignoring Obama granting waivers to large groups of people who dont want to participate.

Whew! - guess I'm safe for now.

Quote

But go ahead. Get the thread locked up get me banned whatever.

The certainly isn't my intent or desire... I don't swim in that.

I don't know what the answer to medical costs are. Current system is extremely expensive. I understand the idea behind the 'mandate', though I'm not persuaded to be on board with it. I've not had insurance for a few years, times having been rough here (it's getting better). I pay cash for medical care - found a GREAT doc who has opted out of the insurance bidness - but if I get cancer/need operation, I'd up that infamous creek. Don't have easy answers.

Gary G · « **Reply #87 on:** June 30, 2012, 06:46:58 AM »

Peter Schiff on the subject: (good analysis)

http://www.youtube.com/schiffreport

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #88 on:** June 30, 2012, 08:42:38 AM »

Quote

This explains the economics of government healthcare:
http://lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard295.html

Excellent link, everyone should read this.

jimster · « **Reply #89 on:** June 30, 2012, 09:05:35 AM »

The bottom line is they could have just bought insurance policies for 30 to 50 million people for a fraction of what the massive regulatory legislation passed will cost, which hires a massive amount of federal employees oversight offices, oversight offices to over see the oversight offices, and IRS jobs to support for the life of the program which never stops growing, and never has a budget. Obviously the program is already bankrupted itself before it kicks in, and we are already bankrupt. Typical government stuff, with typical democrat and progressive socialist supporters, nothing they support ever turns a profit.
The people who support this stuff do not read legislation, if they have not taken the time to read through most of it, there opinions don't count, they don't know what's in it.
The good news is the high court said it' a tax...it can be booted out through another congress...helluva lot easier than if it was ruled on the way it was written.
These idiots don't care about health care, if they did they would have just bought a bunch of isurance policies for people instead of tutning it into a bunch of government jobs and a power grab.