What do you think of today's health care ruling from supreme court?

[lakota]

So what you're saying is,  your objection to providing health care to 52 million uninsured Americans is due to the special treatment given to 541 members of congress.  Insightful!

Next you will tell me that there was no political motivation behind granting waivers to big labor unions

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk

[yellowtail3]

So what you're saying is,  your objection to providing health care to 52 million uninsured Americans is due to the special treatment given to 541 members of congress.  Insightful!

Next you will tell me that there was no political motivation behind granting waivers to big labor unions

do you really think that Crusty will do that? I'm going to guess... No.
Let's place a bet?

[Gary G]

Roberts was the deciding vote. He said that it was constitutional because the mandate was a tax. There is a problem here. The individual mandate originated in the senate and the house is the only body that can originate a tax. Hum?

[Cabin4]

First and foremost, obamacare is about controlling people and making us dependant on the government. Its true and real intent has nothing to do with serving the health care needs or problems of this nation. Obama and his cronies tell us this health care bill will improve care and lower costs. The facts are the opposite of this and anyone with a brain cell knows it. Our costs will go up in the form of a tax and our quality of care will decline so that that can enrole 30 to 40 million people. So all that is an obama liberal lie and the SCOTUS ruling proves in part, that this is the case. 
 
But what will happen without any question, is we will need it. And when you can put this level of power & control in the hands of politicians, they will take it and use it for your vote. Thats what obama and the democrates wanted.
 
All national elections from this day forward will be contain an element of the health care political battle. Health care is now pure and simple politics. What a joke, thanks to obama, the democrates and his supporters.

[DDZ]

Its very sad that our freedoms that came at a very high cost,  are taken for granted by so many in exchange for a little something from the government. Whether its food, health care, or safety, freedoms that many have died for are so readily given away to a government that is taking those freedoms in the name of helping people. We are going to pay a huge price for giving away our freedoms in exchange for "stuff", many just don't know it yet.

[rickt300]

Seems pretty sure that our government is broken. I bet there will be real problems soon over these inconsistencies. If indeed the Supreme court does not reflect the consititution carefully as noted in the AFA ruling 5 to 4 then what good is it? If our constitution can be interpreted any way the leftist ideologues on the court want there goes the basis for our republic. If this is the case then what reason do any of us have to follow this corrupted system of law? Why should we make any effort to be law abiding?

[celt1314]

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, I could go on and in but most has been said. The future looks dark from my financial and social standing. How many times can you take from a man that has lost over and over? "taxation without representation". I'm not feeling represented in my own country. That is an awful feeling. The people I hear that are for this have not done their reading. A door has been opened that will be VERY hard to shut.

[scootrd]

"Obamacare raises taxes on the American people by approximately $500 billion. Obamacare cuts Medicare -- cuts Medicare by approximately $500 billion," Romney said. "And even with those cuts and tax increases, Obamacare adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt, and pushes those obligations on to coming generations." - Mitt Romney’s claim after the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the core of the health care law on June 28, 2012.
 
The facts - 
The CBO has reported It lowers the deficit, by about $124 billion over 10 years. The Republican 2011 bill to repeal the health care law, CBO reports will increase the deficit by about $210 billion over 10 years.
 
The Supreme Court ruling may change certain elements of the health care law’s costs, especially as it affects Medicaid spending. Medicaid is the joint federal-state health insurance program for the very poor.  (But who really cares about them. I got mine right)
 
 A statement on the CBO website on the day of the ruling stated  - 

"CBO is in the process of reviewing the Supreme Court’s decision related to the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare to you dieghard to the line partisan types) to assess the effect on CBO’s projections of federal spending and revenue under current law."  Still, we find no factual basis for Romney’s claim that the law "adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt."

Hey Mitt whats your view of a federal mandate  ? What do you consider to be the the ultimate conservative plan ?

[ironglow]

  If this masterpiece of garbage gets re-elected and continues his oppressive ways, I see some states seceding from the union.
  Another "first" for Obama..first ones in the 20th or 21st centuries and the first in 150 years..

[-Shaggy-]

 
 A statement on the CBO website on the day of the ruling stated  - 

"CBO is in the process of reviewing the Supreme Court’s decision related to the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare to you dieghard to the line partisan types) to assess the effect on CBO’s projections of federal spending and revenue under current law."  Still, we find no factual basis for Romney’s claim that the law "adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt."

Now, now, Scoot, don't lie. It makes you look stupid.
 
"
  CBO is in the process of reviewing the Supreme Court’s decision related to the Affordable Care Act to assess the effect on CBO’s projections of federal spending and revenue under current law. We expect that this assessment will probably take some time."      http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43362
 
 
That is what the CBO website actually says.Nothing about Romney at all, no matter how much you would like it to.

[scootrd]

Sorry Shaggy , not trying to misslead I just for got to separate my paragraph  - Point was Romney trying to scare everyone

"CBO is in the process of reviewing the Supreme Court’s decision related to the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare to you dieghard to the line partisan types) to assess the effect on CBO’s projections of federal spending and revenue under current law." 

Politifact - 
Still, we find no factual basis for Romney’s claim that the law "adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt."

Source
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obamacare-adds-trillions-deficit/

[Singleshotsam]

 

Death to all tyrants VIVA LA REVOLUTION

   So where is the leadership for this so called revolution?     

Lock and Load

   So where are you going with your gun and all this ammo?  If you take somebody out who is going to replace them? 

[Buckskin]

"Obamacare raises taxes on the American people by approximately $500 billion. Obamacare cuts Medicare -- cuts Medicare by approximately $500 billion," Romney said. "And even with those cuts and tax increases, Obamacare adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt, and pushes those obligations on to coming generations." - Mitt Romney’s claim after the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the core of the health care law on June 28, 2012. 
 
The facts - 
The CBO has reported It lowers the deficit, by about $124 billion over 10 years. The Republican 2011 bill to repeal the health care law, CBO reports will increase the deficit by about $210 billion over 10 years. Your right, CBO always gets it right....
 
The Supreme Court ruling may change certain elements of the health care law’s costs, especially as it affects Medicaid spending. Medicaid is the joint federal-state health insurance program for the very poor.  (But who really cares about them. I got mine right) Again, funny that a union guy is critizising the "But who cares about them, I got mine right" stance... Isn't that all that unions represent...
 
 A statement on the CBO website on the day of the ruling stated  - 

"CBO is in the process of reviewing the Supreme Court’s decision related to the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare to you dieghard to the line partisan types) to assess the effect on CBO’s projections of federal spending and revenue under current law."  Still, we find no factual basis for Romney’s claim that the law "adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt."    Anyone with an ounce of commonsense can figure out that the government cannot run anything without ballooning our deficit.  They cannot deliver a letter without adding to the deficit, of course this has a lot to do with the union.... And you think they will be able to run health care... As they say, ignorance is bliss...

Hey Mitt whats your view of a federal mandate  ? What do you consider to be the the ultimate conservative plan ?
At least he has learned from his mistakes.  Liberalism is a disease, but can be cured with a large dose of commonsense...

[Cabin4]

"Obamacare raises taxes on the American people by approximately $500 billion. Obamacare cuts Medicare -- cuts Medicare by approximately $500 billion," Romney said. "And even with those cuts and tax increases, Obamacare adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt, and pushes those obligations on to coming generations." - Mitt Romney’s claim after the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the core of the health care law on June 28, 2012.
 
The facts - 
The CBO has reported It lowers the deficit, by about $124 billion over 10 years. The Republican 2011 bill to repeal the health care law, CBO reports will increase the deficit by about $210 billion over 10 years.
 
The Supreme Court ruling may change certain elements of the health care law’s costs, especially as it affects Medicaid spending. Medicaid is the joint federal-state health insurance program for the very poor.  (But who really cares about them. I got mine right)
 
 A statement on the CBO website on the day of the ruling stated  - 

"CBO is in the process of reviewing the Supreme Court’s decision related to the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare to you dieghard to the line partisan types) to assess the effect on CBO’s projections of federal spending and revenue under current law."  Still, we find no factual basis for Romney’s claim that the law "adds trillions to our deficits and to our national debt."

Hey Mitt whats your view of a federal mandate  ? What do you consider to be the the ultimate conservative plan ?

What a bunch of garbage spin. First you start with a quote on "raising taxes" then you switch to the "facts" that is really lowers the deficit.
 
Since these are 2 entirely differant things anyway, your post is meaningless. More liberal democrate spin on at he obamacare lie machine. FACT: As proven by SCOTUS.
 
Even if obamacare reduced the defecit, it reduces it by INCREASING TAXES!!!! Not by reducing spending! Spending is going to go UP....
 

[Buckskin]

This will be the single largest tax increase in the Countries history.  Gonna be fun watching him try to keep his job running on that!!!

[Cabin4]

OBAMA: "If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance. This law will only make it more secure and more affordable."
 
 
Some FACTS: Nothing in the law ensures that people happy with their policies now can keep them. Employers will continue to have the right to modify coverage or even drop it, and some are expected to do so as more insurance alternatives become available to the population under the law. Nor is there any guarantee that coverage will become cheaper, despite the government subsidies many people will get.
 
The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office has estimated that the number of workers getting employer-based coverage could drop by several million. Companies with more than 50 workers would have to pay a fine for terminating insurance.
 
Obama's soothing words for those who are content with their current coverage have been heard before, rendered with different degrees of accuracy. He's said nothing in the law requires people to change their plans, true enough. But the law does not guarantee the status quo for anyone, either!
 
In its most recent complete estimate, in March 2011, the Congressional Budget Office said the new health care law would actually reduce the federal budget deficit by $210 billion over the next 10 years. In the following decade, the law would continue to reduce deficits by about one-half of one percent of the nation's gross domestic product, the office said.
The congressional budget scorekeepers acknowledged their projections are "quite uncertain" because of the complexity of the issue and the assumptions involved, which include the assumption that all aspects of the law are implemented as written.
 
The tax increases fall heavily on upper-income people, health insurance companies, drug makers and medical device manufacturers. This will result in higher cost to health care consumers and the federal government who subsidises the costs.
 
Of course, higher taxes on businesses can be passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.
Individuals making over $200,000 and couples making over $250,000 will pay 0.9 percent more in Medicare payroll tax and a 3.8 percent tax on investments. As well, a tax starts in 2018 on high-value insurance plans.
---
OBAMA: "Because of the Affordable Care Act, young adults under the age of 26 are able to stay on their parents' health care plans, a provision that's already helped 6 million young Americans."
Some FACTS: Obama is overstating this benefit of his health law, and his own administration knows better. The Department of Health and Human Services, in a June 19 news release, said 3.1 million young adults would be uninsured were it not for the new law. Obama's number comes from a June 8 survey by the Commonwealth Fund, a health policy foundation. It said 6.6 million young adults joined or stayed on their parents' health plans who wouldn't have been able to absent the law. But that number includes some who switched to their parents' plans from other coverage, Commonwealth Fund officials told the Los Angeles Times.
---
ROMNEY: "Obamacare is a job-killer."
Some FACTS: The law's penalties on employers who don't provide health insurance might cause some companies to hire fewer low-wage workers or to hire more part-timers instead of full-time employees, the budget office said. But the main consequence would still be from more people choosing not to work.
 
The US Chamber of Commerce is a strong opponent of the law, having run ads against it. Its poll was conducted unscientifically and is therefore not a valid measure of business opinion.

[rickt300]

I think before we get too extreme, stop paying taxes would be a good start. Nobody likes the IRS anyway so it won't be easy for them to get any sympathy.

[SwampThing762]

scootrd,

Obamacare will only increase costs.   Employers will drop employees insurance packages and simply pay the tax penalty.   The tax penalty then goes to the government, which will not use that penalty to pay to reduce the cost of healthcare.

Anyone truly interested in healthcare reform will work at national insurance portability [and break intrastate insurance monopolies], will institute tort reform capping punitive and nonpunitive damages at $250K each, will expand healthcare charity guidelines so providers can provide care and write off percentage of uninsured care as charity, and will expand the tax and debt collection laws so the freeloaders and parasites "pay their fair share".


The solution to healthcare reform is very simple -- slash and burn through the real cost drivers to reduce the cost, and healthcare becomes affordable to everyone, in some form or fashion.

ST762

[Gary G]

All you need to know:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/114898.html

[scootrd]

Even if obamacare reduced the defecit, it reduces it by INCREASING TAXES!!!! Not by reducing spending! Spending is going to go UP....
 

The ridiculousness of this argument is this -  it is only going to affect 1% of America. If you have INS already your not affected.period. If you can afford healthcare , but dont have it now , you have a choice, bow out and pay the TAX/PENEALTY (1% of America) thats a choice you have. once exchanges come online if you dont have INS you will have access to affordable care.

This is just not a big deal in my book. Nobody rides for free!!!!

[45-70.gov]

OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind

i added this to my signature
don't know if its true or not
that never stopped the opposition  so  i will see  how often i can say it to people

[Cabin4]

Even if obamacare reduced the defecit, it reduces it by INCREASING TAXES!!!! Not by reducing spending! Spending is going to go UP....
 

The ridiculousness of this argument is this -  it is only going to affect 1% of America. If you have INS already your not affected.period. If you can afford healthcare , but dont have it now , you have a choice, bow out and pay the TAX/PENEALTY (1% of America) thats a choice you have. once exchanges come online if you dont have INS you will have access to affordable care.

This is just not a big deal in my book. Nobody rides for free!!!!

Thats already proven to be a democrate and obama lie. There is NOTHING in the bill that states that or can protect you from losing your current policy. In fact, over the next couple of years, most of us will be forced to change and or alter our policy or provider. Even the ones from what are currently employer sponsored. Millions will be forced into the government system and exchanges as a result of this bill who are currently with an employer program.
 
Just another liberal lie.

[Flash]

I wonder how many large corporations would be willing to pay the tax, rather than provide their employees with health insurance. This is Pandoras box if i ever saw one

[scootrd]

OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind

Another tow the party line republican talking point  mcConnell, Ryan, Beohner and others keep repeating so lame stream media picks it up

Has no basis in fact it's not even close to the biggest , even Reagan, Bush's , and clinton's were larger-

[ironglow]

  It has been said that John Roberts was originally in favor of scrapping the whole Obamacare fiasco.. but the media, cocktail parties and desire for popularity among them caused him to "flip" his vote.
  I always had respect for Roberts, but if indeed he flipped for personal, rather than constitutional reasons..I have a change of heart.

[saddlebum]

Taxation: The high bench has confirmed that ObamaCare's individual mandate is a massive tax on the American middle class. But let's not forget the 20 other new taxes that are embedded in the law.
 
Though President Obama never sold it as a tax hike, the Supreme Court ruled the mandate is exactly that. Unfortunately, the majority argued it's legal under Congress' taxing authority.
 
Forcing citizens to buy health insurance "is absolutely not a tax increase," Obama insisted in 2009. Earlier, he assured the public that raising taxes on the middle class to support his health care plan was "the last thing we need in an economy like this." "Folks are already having a tough enough time," Obama added.
 
Indeed they are. But his plan, which subsidizes some 30 million uninsured, amounts to a $1.8 trillion whammy on working families. And that's just for starters.
 
The court was silent about the 20 other different taxes hidden in ObamaCare, more than half of which affect families earning less than $250,000 a year.
 
The new taxes, which cost some $675 billion over the next decade, include:
 
• A 2.3% excise tax on U.S. sales of medical devices that's already devastating the medical supply industry and its workforce. The levy is a $20 billion blow to an industry that employs roughly 400,000.
 
Several major manufacturers have been roiled, including: Michigan-based Stryker Corp., which blames the tax for 1,000 layoffs; Indiana-based Zimmer Corp., which cites the tax in laying off 450 and taking a $50 million charge against earnings; Indiana-based Cook Medical Inc., which has scrubbed plans to open a U.S. factory; Minnesota-based Medtronic Inc., which expects an annual charge against earnings of $175 million, and Boston Scientific Corp., which has opted to open plants in tax-friendlier Ireland and China to help offset a $100 million charge against earnings.
 
• A 3.8% surtax on investment income from capital gains and dividends that applies to single filers earning more than $200,000 and married couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000.
 
• A $50,000 excise tax on charitable hospitals that fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance" and other rules set by the Health and Human Services Dept.
 
• A $24 billion tax on the paper industry to control a pollutant known as black liquor.
 
• A $2.3 billion-a-year tax on drug companies.
 
• A 10% excise tax on indoor tanning salons.
 
• An $87 billion hike in Medicare payroll taxes for employees, as well as the self-employed.
 
http://news.investors.com/article/616549/201206281902/supreme-court-confirms-obamacare-massive-tax-burden.htm
 
Unlike some here, I post the source of my information...............
 
And don't forget we have to pay for all those new IRS and other government employees that will be enforcing and collecting all the new "taxes" that will be imposed on ALL Americans. And the  bureaucrats that will decide who gets what kind of healthcare we get and when we get it, if at all. (See Canada and Europe)

[saddlebum]

The Supreme Court’s narrow 5-4 ruling on Obamacare effectively puts its seal of approval on the biggest tax increase in most Americans’ lifetime.
 
But as The Washington Times notes, on the campaign trail four years ago and since taking office, none other than Obama himself has said again and again that middle-class families will not see their taxes rise “a single dime” under his presidency.
 
The high court’s ruling leaves in place 21 tax increases in the health care law costing more than $675 billion over the next 10 years, according to the House Ways and Means Committee. Those 21 tax increases are:

• A 156% increase in the federal excise tax on tobacco
• Obamacare Individual Mandate Excise Tax
• Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax
• Obamacare Surtax on Investment Income
• Obamacare Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans
• Obamacare Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax
• Obamacare Medicine Cabinet Tax
• Obamacare HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike
• Obamacare Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax”
• Obamacare Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers
• Obamacare “Haircut” for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI
• Obamacare Tax on Indoor Tanning Services
• Obamacare elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D
• Obamacare Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike
• Obamacare Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals
• Obamacare Tax on Innovator Drug Companies
• Obamacare Tax on Health Insurers
• Obamacare $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives
• Obamacare Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2
• Obamacare “Black liquor” tax hike
• Obamacare Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”

For full details on each tax, go to Americans for Tax Reform.
 
http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/scotus-says-obamacare-is-just-a-tax-heres-obamacares-21-taxes/

[45-70.gov]

12. 

Obamacare Tax on Indoor Tanning Services

i would never use a tanning service


but if they can tax that they can tax  guns or ammo


we  won't stand up for them and they won't stand up for us

[Swampman]

Time for the proposed 28th Amendment to the United States  Constitution: "Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to  the Senators and Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies  to the Senators and Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States".

[Dixie Dude]

The Wall Street Journal reported that 75% of the new Obamacare taxes would be paid by families making less than $125,000 a year.  So much for the taxes on the 1%. 
 
Scootrd, I suggest you download the entire bill like my wife did and read the whole thing.  Some smart people have and are telling you what is in it.  The government will decide how much the insurance companies will pay the doctors and hospitals.  Hmmm, might not be enough.  The bill doesn't address the following at all:
 
1) Your choice of doctors, even insurance because it doesn't allow you to buy across state lines.
2) Malpractice limits.  My doctor pays $2,800 a month in malpractice insurance.  He said if they had the million dollar limit, it would drop by half. 
3) Doesn't allow more students in medical schools for doctors and nurses.
4) Privacy between you and your doctor because all records will have to be computerised.  Air force did a trial of the computerization of all their records and it actually increased costs and had the doctor doing more typing the forms after every visit so he had less time for patients.  Also it increases costs if he has to hire someone to do the data entry.  Data entry isn't private. 
5) With the recent widespread power outages, transferring records can't take place in emergencies because the power and computers are out. 
 
I have more, but haven't time to post right now.