Author Topic: Republican Horrified to Discover that Christianity is Not the Only Religion  (Read 1490 times)

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Offline crustylicious

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 It's an honest mistake, assuming that the Constitution only protects your own personal megachurch faith. But one Louisiana Republican is learning the hard way that religious school vouchers can be used to fund education at all sorts of religious schools, even Muslim ones. And while she's totally in favor of taxpayer money being used to pay for kids to go to Christian schools, she's willing to put a stop to the entire program if Muslim schools are going to be involved.
Valarie Hodges admitted that when she supported Governor Bobby Jindal's school voucher program, she only did so because she assumed the religious school vouchers could only be used for Christian schools. Religious freedom means that everyone's free to follow Valarie Hodges' religion! She explains,
I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America's Founding Fathers' religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools. I liked the idea of giving parents the option of sending their children to a public school or a Christian school.
As The Friendly Atheist points out, the brand of Christianity currently espoused by many in the religious right wing would be pretty unrecognizable to the Founding Fathers, who were pretty high on Deism and pretty low on Christian rock concerts/ talking about The Children's collective virginity/ having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But whatever. Facts are immaterial at this point.
Louisiana's Kenneth the Page governor had pushed pretty hard for the vouchers program, fast tracking it through the legislature early in the state's legislative session. But, according to the Livingston Parish News, as the measure was brought up for a vote before the full house, a Muslim school applied for the voucher program.
Whoa! Record scratch sound! Dishes breaking! Islam is a religion protected by the constitution, too? No one told Valarie Hodges anything about religions being equal under the law! She can't support any sort of anything that could learn to families using taxpayer money to educate their kids in Islamic schools. She added Bachmannesquely,
We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.
A thousand. A thousand Muslim schools in Louisiana. Maybe that's why first-time jobless claims are decreasing there; all those Muslim school jobs at the thousand new Muslim schools that Valarie Hodges knows are out there just waiting to suck off the tax teat.
The voucher program, called Act 2, passed, opening the door for god knows how many non-Valarie Hodge's-religion schools that might interfere with her vision of America as a sort of Christian Saudi Arabia. At least one public school district has already filed suit in an attempt to keep the voucher program from being enacted.
 
http://jezebel.com/5923898/republican-horrified-to-discover-that-christianity-is-not-the-only-religion
 
 
 Louisiana Republican: When I Voted for State Funds to go to Religious Schools, I Didn’t Mean Muslim OnesJuly 5, 2012  By Hemant Mehta 639 Comments In Louisiana, Republican Governor Bobby Jindal pushed for a voucher program that would allow state funds to be used to pay for religious schools.  It’s unconstitutional, it’s a way to use taxpayer money to fund someone’s faith, and it was a bad idea to begin with. 
But it passed. 
Now, one of the state legislators, Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson), just made a shocking discovery, though: Christianity isn’t the only religion!
>Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal’s overhaul of the state’s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.
“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

“Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders’ religion,” Hodges said. “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.”Wait, we’re teaching the “Founders’ religion”?  I can’t wait to see those Deistic schools popping up everywhere…
I can’t decide whether the staffers at Americans United are collectively rolling their eyes or shaking their heads in disbelief, but they’re right to suggest “We told you so”:>Where to begin? Hodges’ bigotry is perhaps only rivaled by her ignorance of constitutional and legal principles. Of course Muslim schools will qualify for funding under a voucher plan. When programs like this are set up that dole out benefits to religious schools, the government can’t play favorites. That’s basic.

Some legislators aren’t comfortable funding Muslim schools. What’s to be done? How about not establishing these programs in the first place? Let Muslims fund Muslim schools. Let Catholics fund Catholics ones. Let fundamentalist Protestants pay for the conservative Christian academies and so on.Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith.  Everyone else can fend for themselves.
Message to Rep. Hodges: Your Christian privilege is showing.
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Offline Dee

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As soon as someone takes the bait, this will get interesting. ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline yellowtail3

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As soon as someone takes the bait, this will get interesting. ;)
Bait? I dunno... I got no prob with private schools, generally, like I got no probs worth most things I agree with. Other things... Well, they require some tolerance, which I have to varying degrees (greater now than in the past)
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Oh come on! You know it takes a lot more than just Sara and Michelle to balance out Nancy.....the right needs more like Valerie to make the scales even up with Pelosi ;)
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Offline subdjoe

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As soon as someone takes the bait, this will get interesting. ;)

Just his usual twists and distortions, with the added myth about the "deist" tendencies of the founders.  Nothing to see here, move along.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline yellowtail3

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As soon as someone takes the bait, this will get interesting. ;)

Just his usual twists and distortions, with the added myth about the "deist" tendencies of the founders.  Nothing to see here, move along.
What do you refer to, subjoe? Is it your position none of the founders were deists? Or that all were, or some? Explain the 'myth' you preemptively dismiss? I would like to hear 'bout it...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline BBF

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Did the Governor knew this or was he just as surprised?(  snicker, snicker) :D
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline subdjoe

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As soon as someone takes the bait, this will get interesting. ;)

Just his usual twists and distortions, with the added myth about the "deist" tendencies of the founders.  Nothing to see here, move along.
What do you refer to, subjoe? Is it your position none of the founders were deists? Or that all were, or some? Explain the 'myth' you preemptively dismiss? I would like to hear 'bout it...

Read what they wrote, not what HuffPo et al claim they wrote.  While some did not strictly adhere to the doctrine of the major established religions of that time and place, and one or two did express serious doubts, most were solidly entrenched in them.  The modern myth that all or the vast majority were "deists" doesn't hold up when the light of history is shone on it. 

I've posted a lot of their work in the past on the Graybeard fora, time for you to do your own homework.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline yellowtail3

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altitude, I concede... The founders were al rightwing fundamentalist...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline yellowtail3

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Read what they wrote, not what HuffPo et al claim they wrote. 
i could not tell you what HuffPo et al wrote, but being a guybwith a degree in history and interest in same, i have a pretty good grip on the founders.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline powderman

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As soon as someone takes the bait, this will get interesting. ;)

 
YEP. Typical Christian baiting by ol crusty. I will take a small nibble and state that not ONE THIN DIME of taxpayer money should be used for anything to do with muslims, their heads are screwed up enough the way they are. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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Offline subdjoe

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Read what they wrote, not what HuffPo et al claim they wrote. 
i could not tell you what HuffPo et al wrote, but being a guybwith a degree in history and interest in same, i have a pretty good grip on the founders.

Not if you buy into the "Our founders were all deists" myth.  Also, if you buy into that, then you follow the HuffPo party line. 

Shall I provide quotes again?
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Cheesehead

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John Adams once said, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline gypsyman

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Could it be that she did alittle reasearch, and didn't want her daughters/granddaughters having to wear burka's,not allowed to go to college, having grandson's arms run over for stealing a loaf of bread or bubblegum. Husbands/fathers killing wives and/or daughter for honor. I can see her side of the arguement. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Dee

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John Adams was a lawyer. Of course he would say that Cheese. Blackstone may have even said it. Religion and Christianity are totally separate. There are all sorts of "christian religions" and "religions" claiming to be Christian.
The Constitution also does not contain the phrase "Separation of Church and State" or "freedom of religion". BUT! The first Amendment implies it. The "Declaration of Independence", which "PRECEEDED BOTH" the "Constitution", and the "Bill of Rights", does however mention "GOD". You know. GOD GIVEN UNALIENALBLE RIGHTS?
Lawyers are "word smiths". If they can "twist the word a little", "beat on it a little", some "bubba or biased judge", or jury might just buy it.
I've done a little reading on Adams, and I think what he was really after was "fair treatment for all", regardless of color or race. A Christian Value.

 
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Needles

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John Adams once said, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Cheese

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli is where the statement comes from. Jefferson, Paine, and Barlow authored it, all self-avowed deists. It was ratified unanimously and signed by Adams. Washington pushed for it, but the vote came up in November, 1796, and had to be signed by Adams in June, 1797. (Government was still a part time job then.)
Jim

"There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, the night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man."  Patrick Rothfuss

Offline m-g Willy

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Why would muslims need any aid of any sort?
How long does it take , and how hard is it to teach someone how to tie a bomb to their ass?

Offline mcbammer

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Christianity   is   not   a   relgion  .  Its   a   reality.

Offline powderman

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Why would muslims need any aid of any sort?
How long does it take , and how hard is it to teach someone how to tie a bomb to their ass?

 
HEH. chopping off noses and heads isn't exactly skilled labor either. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline subdjoe

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John Adams once said, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Cheese

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli is where the statement comes from. Jefferson, Paine, and Barlow authored it, all self-avowed deists. It was ratified unanimously and signed by Adams. Washington pushed for it, but the vote came up in November, 1796, and had to be signed by Adams in June, 1797. (Government was still a part time job then.)

And that, out of context quote, was meant to show that there is no State religion as was the case in so many european, and middle eastern, countries at that time.  Not, as many now claim, that it is an atheistic nation. 

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.

"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever."
--Adams wrote this in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776.

John Witherspoon
Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Clergyman and President of Princeton University

"While we give praise to God, the Supreme Disposer of all events, for His interposition on our behalf, let us guard against the dangerous error of trusting in, or boasting of, an arm of flesh ... If your cause is just, if your principles are pure, and if your conduct is prudent, you need not fear the multitude of opposing hosts.

"What follows from this? That he is the best friend to American liberty, who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion, and who sets himself with the greatest firmness to bear down profanity and immorality of every kind.

"Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not to call him an enemy of his country."
--Sermon at Princeton University, "The Dominion of Providence over the Passions of Men," May 17, 1776.

Alexander Hamilton
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
--Famous American Statesmen, p. 126.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline yellowtail3

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John Adams once said, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Cheese

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli is where the statement comes from. Jefferson, Paine, and Barlow authored it, all self-avowed deists. It was ratified unanimously and signed by Adams. Washington pushed for it, but the vote came up in November, 1796, and had to be signed by Adams in June, 1797. (Government was still a part time job then.)

And that, out of context quote, was meant to show that there is no State religion as was the case in so many european, and middle eastern, countries at that time.  Not, as many now claim, that it is an atheistic nation
I have not heard the claim by any, let alone many, that the US is now (or ever was) an atheistic nation. I think you're arguing against something that ain't there.


Where have you heard the claim - by many? - that the United States is an 'atheistic nation'?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline ironglow

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John Adams once said, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Cheese

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli is where the statement comes from. Jefferson, Paine, and Barlow authored it, all self-avowed deists. It was ratified unanimously and signed by Adams. Washington pushed for it, but the vote came up in November, 1796, and had to be signed by Adams in June, 1797. (Government was still a part time job then.)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
  OK Needles;
    Time for a history lesson:
 http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/Treaty-of-Tripoli--Not-the-Fraud--but-the-TRUE-CHRISTIAN-Treaty-Story--COURSE-AMER-HIS-160.html
   You simply must quit indulging in theose "history revisionist" blather blogs..  Of course they have no moral compass, so they don't mind lying to promote what they would like history to have said...
   Most of them accuse Washington as having said it..your revisionist is a bit different..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline yellowtail3

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OK Needles;
    Time for a history lesson:
 http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/Treaty-of-Tripoli--Not-the-Fraud--but-the-TRUE-CHRISTIAN-Treaty-Story--COURSE-AMER-HIS-160.html
You're not serious? A link from 'the minister's best friend'? Advertised as a 'history lesson'? Did they get their lesson from 'Cambridge Theological Seminary International, which they tout? At the link they provide:

Quote
...we despise Ivy League Schools with their "Politically-Correct-Cultism" . . . evolutionistic, secularistic, hedonistic, homosexual-embracing, anti-Christ, anti-Scriptural, atheistic, "all-religions-are-equal" philosophy, they all represent. Thus we do NOT accept their credits as valid toward any of our Degrees!

they got a cool pic of the school... or is it?


FREE DOCTORATES! YEAH!

Yikes. Let's get our history lesson somewhere else... ?

Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Needles

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John Adams once said, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Cheese

Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli is where the statement comes from. Jefferson, Paine, and Barlow authored it, all self-avowed deists. It was ratified unanimously and signed by Adams. Washington pushed for it, but the vote came up in November, 1796, and had to be signed by Adams in June, 1797. (Government was still a part time job then.)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
  OK Needles;
    Time for a history lesson:
 http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/Treaty-of-Tripoli--Not-the-Fraud--but-the-TRUE-CHRISTIAN-Treaty-Story--COURSE-AMER-HIS-160.html
   You simply must quit indulging in theose "history revisionist" blather blogs..  Of course they have no moral compass, so they don't mind lying to promote what they would like history to have said...
   Most of them accuse Washington as having said it..your revisionist is a bit different..


That's a ridiculous claim, and it's presumptive to the point of stupidity of you to say I got that from a blog of any kind. Especially when you refute the quote by referring to another blog! I quoted the direct text of the treaty, posted online by the Library of Congress. You're accusing the Library of Congress of being revisionist? In fact, MY comment puts the quote IN CONTEXT.

Photocopy of original document:
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/treatytripoli.htm
Jim

"There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, the night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man."  Patrick Rothfuss

Offline Dee

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There are many men, whom believe that they can run government, families, corporations, and their own lives, without God as the centerpiece. To bring God into the mix, to them, is to give up some imagined form of control to a power they themselves, do not believe deserves the power. It is much like the man whom says that he pulled himself up by his own boot straps. Ahhhh. But where did the leather for the boots come from.
There are many "moral Godless men", that although moral, reject the power of God. Their morality will not save them, nor their accomplishments. You give them the truth, and then they are left to their own devices. In the end, they will all gather at the same place, and lament over what they should have done, had they just known. God said: they have Moses, and the Prophets. And they do. But they will listen to neither, Moses or the Prophets.[/font][/size]
There is no "toned down", "vague", "softened up", "revised version" of the Gospel of Christ. It is "full bore", and "in full force", whether ANYONE, believes it or not. Quotes can be taken "in context" or "out of context", arguments can be made "for" or "against" God in Government, and it does not matter. The truth has no agenda. Only lies, misquotes, and falsehoods have an agenda.
This country in my opinion has gone too far. It will not return, until it is literally, and in every way, on it's knees. Do I hope for this event? Of course not! I have 9 grandchildren whom will most certainly suffer the consequences.
The one thing I am certain of: There will not be one atheist in Hell, nor is there now. God Almighty doesn't chose sides. He only blesses those that "CHOSE HIM".
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglow

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  I am still in favor of school vouchers..just to end a wasteful, non-competitive and very costly business.  Still; I don't believe any school..public, Christian or Muslim should be allowed to teach jihad.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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  From YT;
     
  Quote from: ironglow on Yesterday at 11:32:35 PM
OK Needles;
    Time for a history lesson:
http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/Treaty-of-Tripoli--Not-the-Fraud--but-the-TRUE-CHRISTIAN-Treaty-Story--COURSE-AMER-HIS-160.html
   You're not serious? A link from 'the minister's best friend'? Advertised as a 'history lesson'? Did they get their lesson from 'Cambridge Theological Seminary International, which they tout? At the link they provide
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
    Don't go spastic over the name of the publication..If you just check the facts involved, you wouild discover they add up !
     I can even find valuable kernels sometimes emanating from  CNN, NBC or even MSNBC !
     Don't be so "closed minded'.. ;)
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline yellowtail3

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Don't go spastic over the name of the publication..If you just check the facts involved, you wouild discover they add up !
     I can even find valuable kernels sometimes emanating from  CNN, NBC or even MSNBC !
     Don't be so "closed minded'.. ;)
Spastic? Close-minded? You must be confusing me with one of those blue-preachers with a Free Doctorate! from Alma Mater of The Minister's Best Friend...


I'm confident that Louisiana will survive, even if some of the private schools there aren't exactly what the legislators had in mind...
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline BBF

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What does most of these later posts have to do with the OP??
More religious arguments by the same bunch of malcontents. Yet this is not locked !!
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline powderman

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The one thing I am certain of: There will not be one atheist in Hell, nor is there now. God Almighty doesn't chose sides. He only blesses those that "CHOSE HIM".

 
THats it in a nutshell, and bbf, if ya don't like the subject or discussion feel free to scroll rt on past. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm