Another reason to "legalize" locoweed drugs..

[ironglow]

   Some advocate legalizing the funny stuff..which often isn't so funny..   If such drugs were legalized and this teen had .357 instead of a .22..i wonder if his parents would think the stuff as "cool" ..
 
  http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/07/06/police-teen-shoots-self-in-attempt-to-wake-up-from-shroom-induced-nightmare/

[Dee]

I don't necessarily see this as a drug problem as I do, a lack of common sense & morals, + maybe a lack of parenting problem. Where were they? The boy on the other hand is 17. Considered an adult by many states. He consciously made a bad choice, and INTENTIONALY GOT HIGH.

[yellowtail3]

Do you drink, Ironglow?

[ironglow]

Do you drink, Ironglow?

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  Yes..water, coffee, tea  and sometimes soda pop....that's all I want or need.

[yellowtail3]

Do you drink, Ironglow?

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  Yes..water, coffee, tea  and sometimes soda pop....that's all I want or need.

No alcohol, ever? You don't drink any of the funny stuff?

[Dee]

Out of curiosity? What does whether ironglow drinks any alcohol, have to do with a 17 year old consuming hallucinogenic mushrooms and then shooting himself?
I on the other hand, WILL take a "drink" occasionally. Like when I eat Mexican food. Even though I am drinking the beer, I know whether the Mexican food is good or not. This act of indulgence has never given me the urge to shoot myself, although some of the cooks needed shooting metaphorically speaking.
Can you somehow compare that, with the 17 year old moron tripin on hallucinogens, and doesn't know if he's awake or not, so he shoots himself to see? Like I said. Just curious, and can't wait to hear the reasoning.

[yellowtail3]

Out of curiosity? What does whether ironglow drinks any alcohol, have to do with a 17 year old consuming hallucinogenic mushrooms and then shooting himself?

Glad to answer, Dee. I'm looking at the first post, which seems to equate use of 'the funny stuff' with someone doing something stoopid... then, I'm trying to suss out whether IG has any experience with funny stuff. Contingent upon answer, I'll try to see what constitutes 'funny stuff' and what makes one immoral and something we ought to jail our citizens, and the other... a nice private affair.

Here ya go, Dee:

My friends, I had not intended to discuss this controversial subject at this particular time. However, I want you to know that I do not shun controversy. On the contrary, I will take a stand on any issue at any time, regardless of how fraught with controversy it might be. You have asked me how I feel about whiskey. All right, here is how I feel about whiskey:If when you say whiskey you mean the devil's brew, the poison scourge, the bloody monster, that defiles innocence, dethrones reason, destroys the home, creates misery and poverty, yea, literally takes the bread from the mouths of little children; if you mean the evil drink that topples the Christian man and woman from the pinnacle of righteous, gracious living into the bottomless pit of degradation, and despair, and shame and helplessness, and hopelessness, then certainly I am against it.
But, if when you say whiskey you mean the oil of conversation, the philosophic wine, the ale that is consumed when good fellows get together, that puts a song in their hearts and laughter on their lips, and the warm glow of contentment in their eyes; if you mean Christmas cheer; if you mean the stimulating drink that puts the spring in the old gentleman's step on a frosty, crispy morning; if you mean the drink which enables a man to magnify his joy, and his happiness, and to forget, if only for a little while, life's great tragedies, and heartaches, and sorrows; if you mean that drink, the sale of which pours into our treasuries untold millions of dollars, which are used to provide tender care for our little crippled children, our blind, our deaf, our dumb, our pitiful aged and infirm; to build highways and hospitals and schools, then certainly I am for it.This is my stand. I will not retreat from it. I will not compromise.

[Dee]

Oooooook? I guess, you explained that as well as I thought you would.

[ironglow]

  I tasted the stuf when I was a teenager..perhaps a half bottle of beer and at another time..perhaps a half cup of wine..  I figured beer tastes like it smells..ugh and with the wine..  Is that all there is ?
   Then I looked at the balance scale ..alcohol does this much good..0%  and this much harm..75% ? ..so I decided to forego it's "joys" and haven't touched it since..
   I don't condemn others who use alcohol..so long as it doesn't "use" them..

[yellowtail3]

  I tasted the stuf when I was a teenager..perhaps a half bottle of beer and at another time..perhaps a half cup of wine..  I figured beer tastes like it smells..ugh and with the wine..  Is that all there is ?
   Then I looked at the balance scale ..alcohol does this much good..0%  and this much harm..75% ? ..so I decided to forego it's "joys" and haven't touched it since..
   I don't condemn others who use alcohol..so long as it doesn't "use" them..

Alright. Now: does alcohol fall under the heading of 'funny stuff'?

[R.W.Dale]

It would be much simpler to avoid such situations by eliminating firearms.

Ponder this not everyone who becomes compromised shoots themselves.

But everyone who shoots themselves does so with a gun. Are you guys ready to get rid of YOUR guns to "save the children"? Even if only one life is saved it's surely worth it.

[Empty Quiver]

Many times drugs are blamed for what happens to be a common everyday behaviour problem.
 
I cannot excuse the drunk wife beater. He is in fact a wife beater who happened to get drunk before he beat his wife. Sum bitch wanted to beat his wife, and society tends to excuse those who are drunk. So he had a few beers first. I call B.S.
 
Some may not be able to see the distinction I'm getting at. There are plenty of drug altered indiviuals walking the streets every day. Few find it neccesary, to act out and go to jail, the vast majority are harmless to all but themselves.

[Doublebass73]

The same people that complain about the Nanny government wanting to keep us safe by banning guns want that same Nanny government to keep us safe by banning drugs.

[yellowtail3]

The same people that complain about the Nanny government wanting to keep us safe by banning guns want that same Nanny government to keep us safe by banning drugs.

Selective morality

[Cuts Crooked]

The same people that complain about the Nanny government wanting to keep us safe by banning guns want that same Nanny government to keep us safe by banning drugs.

Selective morality

Of course it is! ALL morality is selective by it's very nature.

[45-70.gov]

It would be much simpler to avoid such situations by eliminating firearms.

Ponder this not everyone who becomes compromised shoots themselves.

But everyone who shoots themselves does so with a gun. Are you guys ready to get rid of YOUR guns to "save the children"? Even if only one life is saved it's surely worth it.

alcohol killed my dad


FREEDOM ISN'T FREE
you either beleive in it or you don't

[Singleshotsam]

Guns (used for suicide), drugs and alcohol do not kill people.  Individuals with poor mental health use them as a way to kill themselves.  Sometimes it's quick with a bullet, sometimes it's an agonizingly slow death.  Either way it happens because mentaly ill individuals do not seek help to fix the problem.
 
Now with that being said, there have been several threads about drugs that have been deleted in the past couple weeks on various other forums by GB and other admin.  Let's not turn this one into one of those that I have to lock.  Please get this thread back on the topic about the pros and cons of legalizing locoweed drugs. 

[ironglow]

  Back to the thread;
 
       In dealing with illegal acts, one could post questions concerning ...tax evasion, ...running roads @ 100 mph, ...whipping kids for discipline etc, and I doubt any of those would muster near so much emotional support as this one, addressing the use of illegal drugs.
    As I try "putting the shoe on my own foot", I look at it this way, absinthe drinking was outlawed for the U.S. years ago* and if someone brought up an idea of legalizing absinthe...I wouldn't be very interested; simply because I never have nor will ever;..drink absinthe.     
 
 Hmmm...have I answered my own question ?
 
 
   * In 2007 after nearly 100 years of a prohibition, absinthe in a much less toxic form was legalized.

[45-70.gov]

freedom aside


what about the tax benefits.....a tax  i will never have to pay....or you


most of the money could be ear marked to ''seal'' with people with drug problems


addiction deal with as a medical problem
accountability  or enhanced penalties  if that addiction leads to other criminal activity

[MGMorden]

The same people that complain about the Nanny government wanting to keep us safe by banning guns want that same Nanny government to keep us safe by banning drugs.

Selective morality

Of course it is! ALL morality is selective by it's very nature.

Which is probably why the government shouldn't be concerning itself with legislating "morality".  Ethics yes, but morals no. 

[ironglow]

A) You shall not covet what is the neighbor's (steal),
 
B) you shall not commit sorcery (use needless drugs),
 
C) you shall not bear false witness (lie),
 
D) You shall not murder...those are all moral questions..
 
  Of course, in this "advanced society"..there are exceptions to each of these moral rules;
 
A) You can covet and steal (from the public) if you are a liberal president or congress person.
 
B) You can now do the sorcery thing (pharmakia) in some states if it's less than an ounce.
 
C)  Supreme court says you can lie, if it is nothing more than "stolen valor'.
 
D) You cannot murder... unless you are operating a legalized, "for profit"..abortion mill.
 
    Beyond that..those old, moral rules generally hold...

[nw_hunter]

You can pass all the laws you want and it won't make a bit of difference in the consumption of mind altering drugs. I see where one species of this magic mushroom (Psilocybe-Cubensis) Grows wild in Fla, Ala, Texas, Mexico and parts of Okla and Ark.
The other (Psilocybe-Cyanescens) Grows from BC Canada to Southern California.The entire west coast.
Good luck stopping the consumption of them I say decriminalize the (use) of drugs.Not talking about someone selling drugs or giving drugs to our children.But why make a criminal out of our children caught using them?Being old.... I don't remember kids in my community doing drugs other than Alcohol. Not that Alcohol is a good drug! IMO, it's actually worse than MJ.(weed) I haven't done either for about 20 years.Tried the grass a few times, and the booze more times than I want to remember.YEP! I actually admit to going beyond sniffing the wine cork or beer bottle  
When most teens were busted for driving around with booze in the car, and in the body, the officers took the booze and gave us a lecture.If we were really drunk, we got a ride home.
Putting someone in prison for drug abuse to themselves isn't doing them a bit of good, or Taxpayers.It just creates more Government control jobs at (Again) the tax payers expense.

[twoshooter]

As I recall, Jesus did not run drunks or whores out of the temple, it was the money changers........he never said it was hard for a thief or murderer to get into heaven, the thief on the cross went with him when he left............he said it was hard for a rich man........people have taken a lot of things that have no relation to religion or morals and connected them. Legalization has absolutely NOTHING to do with "morals", and everything to do with cost benefit analysis. If morals were to be the basis for law, charging interest on loans would be illegal and every 7 years or so debts would be canceled, I can see that going over big with the right..........
Ruining someones life and making them a permanent underclass citizen for doing something stupid, especially something that does not permanently and significantly harm others, and hopefully themselves, at enormous expense to ourselves is actually more stupid than them using drugs in the first place.

[Hooker]

If a person of age wishes to use drugs, alcohol, manufactured or natural stimulants let them. Most will still end up behind bars for the crimes they commit against others. Some will hopefully grow out of it and many of them will die. They are still accountable for what they do and, any violations that they commit should be considered willful and premeditated.  We as a nation should not be responsible for taking care of them when degrade to helplessness. The abuse of stimulants is not a sickness that searches indiscriminately for a host it is a weakness that is chosen selfishly and with total disregard for anyone else.

[ironglow]

If a person of age wishes to use drugs, alcohol, manufactured or natural stimulants let them. Most will still end up behind bars for the crimes they commit against others. Some will hopefully grow out of it and many of them will die. They are still accountable for what they do and, any violations that they commit should be considered willful and premeditated.  We as a nation should not be responsible for taking care of them when degrade to helplessness. The abuse of stimulants is not a sickness that searches indiscriminately for a host it is a weakness that is chosen selfishly and with total disregard for anyone else.

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   I am not so concerne for the voluntary user and his/her eventual demise, as I am with the innocent people he/she kills, maims, and injures along his/her way to an ignominous end.

[yellowtail3]

I am not so concerne for the voluntary user and his/her eventual demise, as I am with the innocent people he/she kills, maims, and injures along his/her way to an ignominous end.

Such a Godly Hoot!


This whole idea of 'drug abuse'... just nuts. If a man wants to drink some beer, or smoke some week, or eat a few mushrooms, it is not Tony Soprano's business, it is not the state's business, it isn't Ironglow's business. Also... the blithe assumption/declaration that 'abuse' will necessarily result in criminal behavior... pure BS.


Someone needs to define drug abuse. It sounds to me like... ingestion of something not state-approved? Is that right? So if we don't say mother may I, and get state permission, it's abuse?

[Cuts Crooked]

Someone needs to define drug abuse. It sounds to me like... ingestion of something not state-approved? Is that right? So if we don't say mother may I, and get state permission, it's abuse?

Here ya go:

Substance abuse, also known as drug abuse, is a maladaptive patterned use of a substance (drug) in which the user consumes the substance in amounts or with methods not condoned by medical professionals. Substance abuse/drug abuse is not limited to mood-altering or psycho-active drugs. Activity is also considered substance abuse when inappropriately used (as in steroids for performance enhancement in sports). Therefore, mood-altering and psychoactive substances are not the only drugs of abuse. Substance abuse often includes problems with impulse control and impulsivity.

[yellowtail3]

Here ya go:

Substance abuse, also known as drug abuse, is a maladaptive patterned use of a substance (drug) in which the user consumes the substance in amounts or with methods not condoned by medical professionals.

Oh my... didn't get permission of the doc? The proper response of a free man would be something along the lines of KMA.

Substance abuse/drug abuse is not limited to mood-altering or psycho-active drugs.

Ah... it is abuse if a Doc doesn't write the script and give you permission to eat that mushroom, drink that wine, or smoke that weed... unless the state says otherwise? What a crock. Let us call this what it is: nothing to do with morality or health, it's all power and control.

Or, money. The state/powers that be use abuse to describe that which they don't approve of. Gotta keep it in their power, and make sure the RIGHT PEOPLE make bank; all others who don't play along are abusers and criminals.

Substance abuse often includes problems with impulse control and impulsivity.

This is just so much BS in service to state and those in power, nothing more.

[Cuts Crooked]

YT,
 
Yes you can make it sound unreasonable.......by leaving out part of the definition. 
 
Regarding the impulse control.....you got a lot of experiance with substance abusers? I deal with them on a near daily basis and can tell you for a fact that it is major factor.
 
You can call it BS, but that doesn't make it so. Actually, is sounds like you don't WANT any definition of substance abuse.
 
Personally, I have no answers! I see the tragic results too often to say it it is a victimless crime, but I also am fully cognisant of the fact that the so called "war on drugs" is an abject failure and may actually be the largest contributing factor in the problem.

[Cuts Crooked]

DSM-IV-TR defines substance abuse as:^[23]
   

• A. A maladaptive pattern of substance use leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by one (or more) of the following, occurring within a 12-month period:

   

• Recurrent substance use resulting in a failure to fulfill major role obligations at work, school, or home (e.g., repeated absences or poor work performance related to substance use; substance-related absences, suspensions or expulsions from school; neglect of children or household)
• Recurrent substance use in situations in which it is physically hazardous (e.g., driving an automobile or operating a machine when impaired by substance use)
• Recurrent substance-related legal problems (e.g., arrests for substance-related disorderly conduct)
• Continued substance use despite having persistent or recurrent social or interpersonal problems caused or exacerbated by the effects of the substance (e.g., arguments with spouse about consequences of intoxication, physical fights)

• B. The symptoms have never met the criteria for Substance Dependence for this class of substance.