Author Topic: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?  (Read 4204 times)

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Offline saddlebum

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2012, 04:20:58 PM »
Why are we so hell-bent on "them" paying taxes??  If they have to pay taxes, we have to pay them more than they get (usually much less than minimum wage).  Some of the best labor gets paid under the table.


And WHO CARES if they send their money back to Mexico?  As long as it keeps our produce prices low, everybody wins.....except the government.  Is it that you think the government NEEDS more money to waste??

Everyone that lives and works in America, (be they citizens or not), and uses the roads, utilities, takes advantage of police protection and other things payed for by taxes, should pay taxes. Pitch in like everybody else and pay their fair share.
 
I don't have time to give you an ecomonics lesson to explain why America's money needs to stay in America. Why do you think everyone is griping about outsourcing and companies moving to other countries? Why boost another country's economy at our expense?
" FIREARMS STAND NEXT IN IMPORTANCE TO THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF. THEY ARE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S LIBERTY TEETH AND KEYSTONE UNDER INDEPENDENCE."       George Washington

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Offline ironglow

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2012, 11:13:27 PM »
Why are we so hell-bent on "them" paying taxes??  If they have to pay taxes, we have to pay them more than they get (usually much less than minimum wage).  Some of the best labor gets paid under the table.


And WHO CARES if they send their money back to Mexico?  As long as it keeps our produce prices low, everybody wins.....except the government.  Is it that you think the government NEEDS more money to waste??
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   I guess some of us are just fixated on doing things in a legal and honest way..
 
... besides, shouldn't people who use our highways, hospitals, schools, health services, OSHA, food stamps etc..chip in a little bit to pay their way ?
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2012, 12:03:27 AM »
Don't you all think they have to at least pay gas and sales tax no matter how they are paid or what they do with their money. For those of you here that say you could do hand field work all day, I wish I could make a bet because I would like to make a considerable bet that none of you could do eight hours and be able to pick 60% what the average worker picks. You might be able  with time to work up to it. Those of you that still claim you could do it are probably the type that claim they can put five shots in a quarter at 100 yards with a snubbie. ::)
GuzziJiohn

 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2012, 12:29:09 AM »
guzzijon , they may do it to win a bet   ;D but the ? is could they get out of bed the next day ?  ;)
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2012, 05:28:41 AM »
I'd take that bet Guzzi! But not the one regarding 5 shots from a snubbie, I can't do that with my service pistol! :o
 
But I feel I should warn you, I live in the bread basket of America, and making extra money detasseling and picking is standard fare at my house. I grew up on farms. Me and my boys have done the seasonal stuff for years now. And even after all these years behind a badge, the extra income is very welcome!
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Offline rio grande

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2012, 05:39:12 AM »
  So what's wrong with the braceros program ?  They could screen miscreants out , keep a record of their coming and going, be sure they pay their share of taxes and medical insurance..thereby making domestic employees more attractive.
  At the end of the season they could go home to await the next harvest season.
  Why wouldn't anyone want things done in order..unless  someone wants to sneak them in line as citizen-voters.
 
   I think both major political parties are failing the U.S. in this..  The Republicans want cheap (cheat) labor and the Democrats want cheap (cheat) voters.


Yes, the bracero program was the best way.  But now, with 20 million illegals in the country why bring any more Mexicans in, who would most likely walk off the farm once here and just stay. Who would send them back?
A little late for bracero I think.
Heavy penalties (jail time) for hiring illegals or renting to them, no welfare for illegals, no public schools.... cut out the incentives and they would self-deport.
Then maybe another bracero program if needed.

Offline DDZ

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2012, 07:08:13 AM »
Don't you all think they have to at least pay gas and sales tax no matter how they are paid or what they do with their money. For those of you here that say you could do hand field work all day, I wish I could make a bet because I would like to make a considerable bet that none of you could do eight hours and be able to pick 60% what the average worker picks. You might be able  with time to work up to it. Those of you that still claim you could do it are probably the type that claim they can put five shots in a quarter at 100 yards with a snubbie. ::)
GuzziJiohn

The people on welfare that buy gas for their car, are not paying for it with their own money. Its not theirs, its other people's money, that they earn, and then is taken by our government.

I'll take that bet also, and I'll guarantee you that you will lose your money. I'm not boasting at all, just stating a fact. I've done physical work ever since I was a kid, and my job requires physical work, so I keep myself in pretty good shape, so the work that I have to do to earn a paycheck, is easier.
Thats a pretty rash statement you made. There are still many people in this country that have to do physical work to earn a paycheck. Not everyone sits behind a desk staring into a computer, nor is everyone fat, lazy, or out of shape.
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Offline powderman

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2012, 12:34:26 PM »
Why are we so hell-bent on "them" paying taxes??  If they have to pay taxes, we have to pay them more than they get (usually much less than minimum wage).  Some of the best labor gets paid under the table.


And WHO CARES if they send their money back to Mexico?  As long as it keeps our produce prices low, everybody wins.....except the government.  Is it that you think the government NEEDS more money to waste??

 
hardertr. They drive on our roads, enjoy our freedoms, many draw welfare, get foodstamps, free med care, etc. Who cares?? I CARE. they have babies here and call them Americans, they refuse to learn and speak ENGLISH, etc. Who cares?? I CARE. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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Offline keith44

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2012, 12:46:36 PM »
easy DDZ, guzzi just made the safe bet, higher percentage of people who do not know what a hard days work is, than those of us who do.  I've been doing farm work off and on for 35 years the last 20 + while also working full time.  There are alot of us here that can work a Mexican out of a job, but the typical US citizen is too soft.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2012, 01:00:24 PM »
When I was a kid growing up in the 50's and 60's in Alabama.  Poor blacks, teenagers, and poor whites, worked picking and gathering crops.  Many boys I grew up with at 12-16 years would bail hay, pick peaches, rake up pecans.  Many farms had a pick your own deal, where you picked two bushels of peas, beans, etc, and you got one, the farmer got the other for him to sell.  Still have a lot of those around.  Pecans could be done the same way, you rake and pick them up, you get a bushel, the owner gets a bushe.  Not many people want to do this anymore. 
 
My grandmother did it in her 80's to get pecans.  She also picked her own blackberrys and wild plums.  Made good jelly and cobblers.  Made good pecan pies, and pecans for other receipes.   She picked wild muskedines for homemade wine and jelly.  Don't see much of that any more.  A lot of older blacks would pick things for halves. 
 
I never saw any Mexicans picking or gathering anything. 
 
By the way, I live in Alabama and with our illegal law, 3 months after it took effect, our unemployment rate dropped 2 points below the 4 surrounding states.  Hmmm, some illegals were taking legals jobs.  We dropped to something like 7. something, while the other states were hoovering around 10%.  We also have a Republican governor, state senate and house for the first time since reconstruction.  They cut spending without raising taxes. 

Offline powderman

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #70 on: July 12, 2012, 01:08:29 PM »
Quote
By the way, I live in Alabama and with our illegal law, 3 months after it took effect, our unemployment rate dropped 2 points below the 4 surrounding states.  Hmmm, some illegals were taking legals jobs.  We dropped to something like 7. something, while the other states were hoovering around 10%.  We also have a Republican governor, state senate and house for the first time since reconstruction.  They cut spending without raising taxes.   
     DIXIE DUDE. Good post Sir. It would raise nationwide if the obamination would at least allow the states to protect themselves from these invaders. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline keith44

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2012, 02:08:08 PM »
Ditto Powderman!!

Dixie Dude, not many want to work for food, nor do they understand the value of food preservation like those "closer to the farm"
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2012, 02:14:29 PM »
Aint gonna need many at all here in sothern MN if it doesn't rain soon. Peas and corn got in late because of the abundance of rain early and then it dried up. I saw a truck brought into the pea plant in Waseca and the whole field didn't fill one truck.
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #73 on: July 13, 2012, 12:34:33 AM »
Quote from DDZ:
"The people on welfare that buy gas for their car, are not paying for it with their own money. Its not theirs, its other people's money, that they earn, and then is taken by our government."


I was referring to illegals in response to another post saying that they pay no taxes.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #74 on: July 13, 2012, 12:56:16 AM »
don't know about farm help but illegals working construction pay alot of taxes they will never ever be able to get back by filing a tax return.
I would love to see our borders closed and all traffic across regulated . Like to see laws followed with respect to immigration. BUT it is not a simple problem. It has gone on so long much of our way of doing business would be disturbed if we go cold turkey. The expense of rounding up and deporting ALL the illegals alone could bankrupt us. Whom ever decides to tackle the problem needs to look beyond knee jerk reaction and see the short and long term effect . I offer how civil rights was implimented as example of a cold turkey approach that has not been effective and in many cases been bad for those who were supposed to be helped. I would hate to see tax payers given more burden with little effect on the problem like affrimative action has been. 
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2012, 02:59:59 AM »
Yes, Americans have to now have a passport or visa to go into ANY other foreign country.  It is the same for America, except our government isn't ENFORCING the EXISTING laws keeping ILLEGALS out without their work visas or passports.  Seems stupid to me, just enforce the freaking laws.  It is not our fault that Mexico hasn't got the resources to screen their people for their visas to check their own people to see if they are criminals, drug dealers, etc. 

Offline powderman

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2012, 06:42:58 AM »
Yes, Americans have to now have a passport or visa to go into ANY other foreign country.  It is the same for America, except our government isn't ENFORCING the EXISTING laws keeping ILLEGALS out without their work visas or passports.  Seems stupid to me, just enforce the freaking laws.  It is not our fault that Mexico hasn't got the resources to screen their people for their visas to check their own people to see if they are criminals, drug dealers, etc.

 
DIXIE DUDE. Well Said Sir. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2012, 07:15:25 AM »
don't know about farm help but illegals working construction pay alot of taxes they will never ever be able to get back by filing a tax return.


WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!! They file tax returns and get refunds! My wife did seasonal work for H&R Block and had to do a lot of their tax filings. >:(

They don't even a need a SS#, they get a "tax number" from the IRS.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2012, 07:48:39 AM »
If they would go back to allowing kids under 16 to work on farms, say 14 year olds, etc., like it was when I was young, we would have fewer illegals.  I know boys 12-14 who once bailed hay during the summer. 
 
Also, about 30-40 years ago you could hire "day labor" by going down to where some poor "hung out" and offer them a job for cash for a couple of days.  Didn't have to fill out forms, pay social security, take out taxes etc.  A lot of this "cash under the table" still goes on to avoid all the paperwork with the government.  Another thing I heard recently 85% of new jobs are "temporary help" jobs to keep from permanent hiring and offering benefits since most people who hire people don't know what the economy and government is going to do. 

Offline powderman

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2012, 10:30:27 AM »
If they would go back to allowing kids under 16 to work on farms, say 14 year olds, etc., like it was when I was young, we would have fewer illegals.  I know boys 12-14 who once bailed hay during the summer. 
 
Also, about 30-40 years ago you could hire "day labor" by going down to where some poor "hung out" and offer them a job for cash for a couple of days.  Didn't have to fill out forms, pay social security, take out taxes etc.  A lot of this "cash under the table" still goes on to avoid all the paperwork with the government.  Another thing I heard recently 85% of new jobs are "temporary help" jobs to keep from permanent hiring and offering benefits since most people who hire people don't know what the economy and government is going to do.

 
DIXIE DUDE. Good post, true. I was hiring out baling hay at about 12 - 13 years old. It's good to start earning money when you are young. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline DDZ

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2012, 11:29:11 AM »
I agree it wouldn't hurt kids one bit to work at 12-18 years old. Many need it, and it would be good for them. Its a good character builder.

I also started helping my uncle's farms bailing hay at 12, up until I was 18. Worst part about bailing hay was when the hay got stacked near the roof of the barn, and it was a 90 degree plus day. It was hot as heck and you would have a bunch of hay dust floating around from the bales falling off the elevator.   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline powderman

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2012, 03:57:14 PM »
DDZ. YEP, and youd blow black stuff out of your nose and cough it up for days. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline keith44

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2012, 06:38:43 PM »
I was 9 when I started doing work on the family farm, and by age 11 was hiring out for cash to neighbors for day or two day jobs, picking, hay fields, tobacco, etc.  Also when moving equipment I drove either smaller equipment or the rear escort truck.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2012, 12:39:53 AM »
One can get a drivers liscense at 14 in Alabama if you work on a farm, otherwise it is 16.

Offline keith44

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2012, 05:24:58 AM »
not here, 16 only.  They used to look the other way when moving the farm equipment, now if caught it's a ticket and the juvenile can't get their license until 18.
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2012, 05:20:44 AM »
Hate to be a kill joy here, but.
 
There aren't any kids "on the farm", these days. For that matter there are barely any people at all on the farm these days. Rural populations are and have been in decline. Look to those rural communities, there is hardly a one that is growing. Best you can hope for is becoming a suburb, filling your schools with Yuppy Scum.
 
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Offline ironglow

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2012, 05:44:49 AM »
I agree it wouldn't hurt kids one bit to work at 12-18 years old. Many need it, and it would be good for them. Its a good character builder.

I also started helping my uncle's farms bailing hay at 12, up until I was 18. Worst part about bailing hay was when the hay got stacked near the roof of the barn, and it was a 90 degree plus day. It was hot as heck and you would have a bunch of hay dust floating around from the bales falling off the elevator.   
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
Wow DDZ...did you bring back memories !!!  I remember well those ultra hot days in the hay mows and it wasn't like other jobs whe you stand around..those bales just keep coming and must be stacked.  I did the same with loose hay.  When that harpoon hay fork hits the track at the top of the barn and starts zinging your way with a ton of hay..you better get out of the way and be ready when it is tripped ..to start mowing it away.
  I remember when as a young father I worked in a brickyard..setting up (blending) entirely by hand, brick patterns on the pallets...or loading box cars by hand with tongs..each hand carrying a steel tong holding 10 bricks..
  later, I went to building concrete stave silos..heavy work in the hot sun. Winter times we made the staves and stacked them in neat, multi-level rows to store for spring usage.  Sometimes working in sub-zero temperatures, we each moved 250 foot tons of material each day.
  Silo building was hard work, ...but I loved it !
  This is all character building..and as a teenager, after a full day's HONEST work, one doesn't feel like wandering around town until 1:00 AM,... looking for trouble..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline DDZ

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2012, 06:47:37 AM »
Yeah, I kind of hated it when there were two guys on the wagon feeding the elevator. the bales came at you twice as fast. I remember always taking a peek down to the floor to see when the dang wagon was going to get empty.

Yes, IG all that type of work is good for character building. As you say, it did make you sleep well.   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline saddlebum

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2012, 09:11:53 AM »
Yeah, I kind of hated it when there were two guys on the wagon feeding the elevator. the bales came at you twice as fast. I remember always taking a peek down to the floor to see when the dang wagon was going to get empty.

Yes, IG all that type of work is good for character building. As you say, it did make you sleep well.   

Reminds me of when I lit out on my own at seventeen and got my first job at a riding stable in Colorado. 150.00 a month + room and board. Whenever the hay man came, I went to help him unload and stack 8 to 10 tons of two tie bales. I was kinda scrawny then and that old guy in his fifties worked my butt off. Getting to the end of the load, it was all I could do to drag bales to this "old man" and keep him busy stacking. He had done this all his life and when I would drag a bale to him, he would snatch it out of my hands with the hooks, lift it over his head and stuff it into a hole while I was trying to catch my breath and trying to get the sweat out of my eyes. He was one tuff old bird!
 
A ranch I worked on some years later had an old flatbed truck with what almost looked like a home made elevator attached to the side of the bed. The elevator worked off of the tire rotation to scoop up the bales in the field and carry them to a stacker, (me), on the truck. Other times when we didn't have the elevator, me and another guy would put the truck in first gear and let it ldle through the field while we would run along side and throw bales on the truck and take turns steering the truck through the open window and stacking. We used to think it was fun to see how fast we could pick up a field that way, running along side the truck while it drove itself. And yes!....We slept good at night. Like a rock!
 
Many years later while working as a equipment operator on a large pipline project out side Laramie, Wy. I would stop by a ranch that a friend worked on, on the way home from work, and stop and help buck bales for a while. The rancher complained that he couldn't get anyone from the college town of Laramie to come out and help put up hay. He was so impressed that I would stop and help, just for the excersize, that he forced me to wear his brand new custom leather chinks so I wouldn't wear out my jeans. He asked my friend what I wanted for helping them with the haying. He told the rancher that I would like to hunt and fish on the place. The rancher told my friend to tell me that I could shoot all of the deer and antelope I wanted and help myself to the Laramie river that runs through his place. And, he would pay me 6.00 per hour ta-boot! It doesn't sound like much money, (and I didn't really care), but this was about 25 yrs ago. The rancher even liked me so much, that he gave me his King Ranch, Mr. San Peppy bread Quarter Horse to work cows with from time to time. My friend who was a ranch hand there was getting jealous.
If your going to have horses, your going to buck bales.
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Offline DDZ

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Re: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from?
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2012, 02:02:10 PM »
I do remember seeing my relatives pick up bales that way when there were just a couple of them doing it. It worked until the truck hit a rut or hole, then one of them would have to hurry up and get the pickup going the right direction. I was never part of that. By the time I was old enough to help lift hay bales, my relatives had purchased a throw baler, which did save a lot of time and man power. 

Thanks for sharing that story Saddlebum. Helping someone out, or blessing someone with your labor, the blessing always seems to get returned someway. Many times its not in the form of money.

Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn