Author Topic: more farm workers needed, realistically where will they come from? (Read 4348 times)

guzzijohn · « **Reply #30 on:** July 10, 2012, 05:33:11 AM »

Quote from DDZ:
"Surely we can't have anyone on welfare getting sore muscles from physical labor. Sore muscles from working are for the other people."

In many cases it would be much more than just sore muscles. Until conditioned many would probably drop from heat stroke, plain exhaustion, heart attacks, dehydration and not be able to pick enough to make it worth anyone's time. Think about what kind of physical shape most of America is in and I am not just referring to welfare folk. How many here on this board could could pick a reasonable amount of produce for even four hours let alone 12+. I know I couldn't and I am in reasonably good shape for a 57 year old.
Concerning farm subsidy payments, I will fess up. I looked myself up and I have collected a total of $25,701.32 in the last 16 years combined on 320 acres. I have no idea how I could also sign my wife up and collect more. Guess I am not bright enough. One of the biggest family operations in my area has collected $236,217 over 16 years. Considering that just his insurance costs alone run more than 50K a year, the subsidy doesn't sound that high to me. If there had not been subsidies in the 80s, most farming would be corporate now and you would probably be paying at least twice for food now than you are.
GuzziJohn
GuzziJohn

ironglow · « **Reply #31 on:** July 10, 2012, 05:35:47 AM »

Some farmers collect big bucks...some get zip.. Just like other citizens..

45-70.gov · « **Reply #32 on:** July 10, 2012, 05:44:36 AM »

1.....by the time a farm cuts through the govment red tape the crops will spoil
2....cut off ALL the hand outs and limit un-employment to 3 months
3.....give welfare to illegals so they will quit competeing with our workers...[just kidding]
4.....all soicial workers and other parasites get un-paid leave during harvest season
5....the farmers may have to pay more labor and jack up prices on what we buy

6...less government hand outs = cheaper food and fewer illegals

DDZ · « **Reply #33 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:20:19 AM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on July 10, 2012, 05:33:11 AM

Quote from DDZ:
"Surely we can't have anyone on welfare getting sore muscles from physical labor. Sore muscles from working are for the other people."

In many cases it would be much more than just sore muscles. Until conditioned many would probably drop from heat stroke, plain exhaustion, heart attacks, dehydration and not be able to pick enough to make it worth anyone's time. Think about what kind of physical shape most of America is in and I am not just referring to welfare folk. How many here on this board could could pick a reasonable amount of produce for even four hours let alone 12+. I know I couldn't and I am in reasonably good shape for a 57 year old.
Concerning farm subsidy payments, I will fess up. I looked myself up and I have collected a total of $25,701.32 in the last 16 years combined on 320 acres. I have no idea how I could also sign my wife up and collect more. Guess I am not bright enough. One of the biggest family operations in my area has collected $236,217 over 16 years. Considering that just his insurance costs alone run more than 50K a year, the subsidy doesn't sound that high to me. If there had not been subsidies in the 80s, most farming would be corporate now and you would probably be paying at least twice for food now than you are.
GuzziJohn
GuzziJohn

So if one is not in good enough shape to do labor, maybe they ought to make themselves fit for work. Is it the tax payers duty to feed and house them because they are to fat or out of shape. Where did personal responsibility go? No one is held accountable for anything anymore. All you need to do is come up with some lame excuse like "I'm to fat to work" and the tax payers take care of you. I'm sick of hearing the excuses anymore.
I'm 54 and there is no doubt in my mind that I could pick strawberries for 12 hours a day if I had to. The fact is I never wanted to pick strawberries so I made myself valuable to a company that would hire me and pay me more than what picking strawberries would. Any able bodied person has no excuse for sitting on their butt and letting government take care of them, and being fat, out of shape, drug problem, alcohol problem, or some small physical ailment is no excuse.

Dee · « **Reply #34 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:27:06 AM »

Most welfare drawers, questionably disabled, or unemployment partakers, will openly tell you, they can can do better on "government benefits" than they can in the work sector. Does anyone really think their gonna "voluntarily" give up the free ride?

rio grande · « **Reply #35 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:31:47 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on July 10, 2012, 05:16:58 AM

Yeah..round up all those OWS rabble rousers, take them to the bean fields, citrus groves and apple orchards..and let them expend their excess energy on something worthwhile..

Great idea! And while we are at it, put those soft-handed 1%'ers, the worthless politicians and the "too big to fail" banksters right alongside 'em in the fields!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #36 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:35:27 AM »

they can work or die....i really don't care

DDZ · « **Reply #37 on:** July 10, 2012, 07:06:56 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on July 10, 2012, 05:29:38 AM

Quote from: DDZ on July 10, 2012, 04:27:27 AM

I remember looking at this a couple of years ago. You might be surprised who is getting what. A dairy farm just up the road from me has got $65,000 since 95. Thats more than most peoples gross wages for a year.

That works out to less than 4,000 a year. I don't think that is more than most peoples wages per year

Yeah cuts, I wasn't talking 65K divided over the years. I meant 65K as being more than a years wages for most people. I'd gladly like to have 65K given to me over 16 years. What makes a farmer more deserving of it than anyone else? I really don't get the idea that just because a farmer produces food or milk, they are automatically entitled to money from the public trough. The main fact is that government has not one iota of business handing out money to farmers, period.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #38 on:** July 10, 2012, 07:17:15 AM »

I'm not taking up for farmers and agree there is abuse. BUT in some cases land is soil banked to save it for future use. Other cases it is to support prices . In both cases free market may work better but if we went to war it might be nice to have the ablity to bring farmers back on line to pick up the slack created when imports are not aval. Some would look at farm support as insurance .

ironglow · « **Reply #39 on:** July 10, 2012, 07:30:23 AM »

Quote from: rio grande on July 10, 2012, 06:31:47 AM

Quote from: ironglow on July 10, 2012, 05:16:58 AM
Yeah..round up all those OWS rabble rousers, take them to the bean fields, citrus groves and apple orchards..and let them expend their excess energy on something worthwhile..

Great idea! And while we are at it, put those soft-handed 1%'ers, the worthless politicians and the "too big to fail" banksters right alongside 'em in the fields!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Right on Rio;
Anypone, 99% or 1% ..if they are sitting on their butt and living off the rest of us..put them into the field.. it will do them good !

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 10, 2012, 07:33:25 AM »

I am 51 and could prob pick strawberries for a 12 hour day... Whether I could stand up straight next day is another subject.

Just started a long term project, thanks be to God. Hoping similar good news for others who need it... It has been an ugly time in America for a lot of folks, still is for many.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #41 on:** July 10, 2012, 07:45:02 AM »

I'm at the big 60 and I can pick all day, so can my wife and chidren, so can my grand kids.........but then we are in the heart of the American Bread Basket. We all grew up here and we haven't left, and we all had summer jobs when we were kids, working on farms. Most of us did our turn at construction too...whatever it takes to put the coon on the table.

There are still plenty of Americans willing and able to do the work, but they are being elbowed out by cheap/illegal labor.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #42 on:** July 10, 2012, 08:18:35 AM »

I wouldn't bet on that Cuts , most illegals get good equal pay to work construction. They produce as well as any other workers. They don't elbow out anyone. The problem is there are many American workers not willing to give a good days work for their pay. The word lazy decribes them. In 2007 if there had not been Hispanic workers there would have been labor shortages in construction in the USA . There are more American workers that do produce than don't but to think all are good is pure hog wash. Some are so lazy they would starve to death in a pie factory. I have been working in construction since 1972 with out a break so I can state that with a 100 % confidence of its accuracy.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #43 on:** July 10, 2012, 08:21:40 AM »

I donno Shootall, The last three years my younger sons could not get summer work on road crews.....BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT SPEAK SPANISH.....I'm not making this up. The construction companies they used to work for told them that that was the only reason they weren't hired!

They ended up taking work with a small landscaping company doing yard work. Didn't pay nearly as good, but it was honest work.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 10, 2012, 08:26:52 AM »

With the record number of millions of unemployed, I don't think the farms will have a problem finding help. As a youngster, I spent many a day in the summer working on my uncles poultry farm and I seem to recall he did not hire any illegals to work there. So I think we would be just fine. Better than collecting welfare from the job situation resulting from obamanomics.....

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #45 on:** July 10, 2012, 09:02:04 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on July 10, 2012, 08:21:40 AM

I donno Shootall, The last three years my younger sons could not get summer work on road crews.....BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT SPEAK SPANISH.....I'm not making this up. The construction companies they used to work for told them that that was the only reason they weren't hired!

They ended up taking work with a small landscaping company doing yard work. Didn't pay nearly as good, but it was honest work.

The last three years we could not hire any summer help. I believe you as they can be a tight group.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #46 on:** July 10, 2012, 09:08:53 AM »

They are going to come from the same places they have been coming from. John Deere, IH, Caterpillar, etc. Machinery has been doing the impossible to do for better than a century and will continue to improve.

We will import veg and fruits until it costs too much and at that time we will grow and harvest our own as we once did. BUT, it will have to be cost effective to produce these goods at home.

keith44 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:41:44 PM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on July 10, 2012, 08:26:52 AM

With the record number of millions of unemployed, I don't think the farms will have a problem finding help. As a youngster, I spent many a day in the summer working on my uncles poultry farm and I seem to recall he did not hire any illegals to work there. So I think we would be just fine. Better than collecting welfare from the job situation resulting from obamanomics.....

I wish you were right, we cannot hire an american to help with the hay, nor the cattle. Even unemployed and about to run out of benefits when offered they scoff and refuse to work. The American work ethic is in deep trouble, if not already gone from the younger generation.

Swampman · « **Reply #48 on:** July 10, 2012, 09:09:10 PM »

Quote from: dukkillr on July 09, 2012, 08:39:04 AM

The problem is that the market has an artificial floor in that the government will provide enough for the lazy and stupid to survive without working. Those are precisely the people who should be picking tomatoes for 3.25$ an hour to keep from starving to death.

Amen

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #49 on:** July 10, 2012, 10:18:37 PM »

Quote

EWG Farm Subsidy Data Base. Look'em up for yourself, and note that many sign family members up also to "double down" on the money. I have friends doin it, and family members doin it. It will also tell you HOW MUCH they get.

I graduated high school with several farmers kids. We looked at that database one day after I heard a farmer complaining about how he didn't make any money and how tough he had it. Granted he was driving a brand new ford f-150 king ranch edition and had just bought about 3 new tractors. His farm had recieved over 3 million in subsidies over a 10 year period. This was split and filed between himself, his wife and his 4 kids.
Most of the farmers in my neck of the woods sport similar vehicles, new farm equipment, new campers, atv's ect.

turk762 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 11, 2012, 01:27:41 AM »

So it sounds like the moral of the story is, the government makes it too easy to survive with out a job, they pay these people more then what they can working these jobs, and in return this is making the general population too soft to work. The people are getting to soft so the government has to get involved and ban and increase taxes on some foods and drinks to curb the fatting lifestyle of these people. They put out commercials to motive people to go outside and get exercise (not to get a job) to get them into shape. Health care cost go up because people are getting soft and lazy, so the government needs to get involved so the lazy ones can have health care too.
It sounds to me the real problem is not the lazy people, its the enablers allowing these people to be lazy.
There is much more to this story, but if you look at it, it makes a complete circle starting with one problem, Im sure if you look you can see the one common problem, and who is responsible. Each problem attempting to be solved creates multiple problems of there own.

keith44 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 11, 2012, 03:51:35 AM »

Quote from: turk762 on July 11, 2012, 01:27:41 AM

It sounds to me the real problem is not the lazy people, its the enablers allowing these people to be lazy.

I think this is the most intelligent sentence I have heard in a political discussion. I agree totally we (as a nation) have enabled the lazy to rise to a protected class status, and rather than shun or vilify those who just ride the govt benefits and try to not work we encourage it, and even try to make the lazy leeches on society feel good about being lazy and worthless to society.

saddlebum · « **Reply #52 on:** July 11, 2012, 07:07:00 AM »

Real immigration reform is needed with a real "guest worker", "work visa", "closed borders", "law enforcement" and whatever it takes to control the problem of illegal immigration and allow Mexicans to come here and work, and then go home! Not everybody that comes here to work the agricultural seasons needs to stay here and freeload the rest of the time. No anchor babies! No free rides! No "hardship" immigration! They can wait in line like all legal immigrants. Nobody I know is really working on real, sane reform policies that work for everyone. Especially for America. But what do we do when we have an Attorney General that won't even enforce the laws we have now, lazy Americans, and liberals that will settle for nothing less than amnesty for millions of criminals?....................

Pretty funny, all this political talk on the campaign trails about "outsourcing" jobs. I'm guessing that these jobs are the most outsourced and damaging to the country because of all of the other problems it brings with it. Taxes don't get paid, medical and social services at tax payer expense, crime, money goes back to Mexico...................

gstewart44 · « **Reply #53 on:** July 11, 2012, 07:54:16 AM »

At 54 yrs I am sure like several others have said, that I could hold a days work in the field. I still clear land, plow, plant and harvest today. Nothing like sweating in the Florida sun to clear out your system. That being said the OP wonders where the help will come from to harvest large quantities of crops. Under our current system there are millions of people who are receiving more from the Gubment Teat for not working than what legal migrant workers are making for honest work. Until this glaring fact is changed there will be a multitude of people who WILL NOT work. hence the need for migrant workers.

I agree with Saddlebum that we need an effective LEGAL Guest Worker program , without achor babies and handouts.

I started working on a tobacco farm in North Carolina at age 12 for three summers, pushed a broom and mop, and unloaded trucks throughout high school, cleaned horse stalls, shoveled out pig, sheep, and goat dung as well as hauling wheelbarrows of cement during college. I never went hungry because I could and WOULD find some sort of work to cover my minimal costs of living.

2nd Thessalonians 3:10 "For even ^T)'>when we were with you, we used to give you this order: ^U)'>if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either."

rio grande · « **Reply #54 on:** July 11, 2012, 09:17:39 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on July 10, 2012, 08:21:40 AM

I donno Shootall, The last three years my younger sons could not get summer work on road crews.....BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT SPEAK SPANISH.....I'm not making this up. The construction companies they used to work for told them that that was the only reason they weren't hired!

They ended up taking work with a small landscaping company doing yard work. Didn't pay nearly as good, but it was honest work.

You are right, any trade dominated by Mexicans... Mexican workers and foremen...if you are not part of 'La Banda', not Mexican and don't speak Spanish...you will NOT be hired. Believe it.

ironglow · « **Reply #55 on:** July 11, 2012, 10:42:52 AM »

So what's wrong with the braceros program ? They could screen miscreants out , keep a record of their coming and going, be sure they pay their share of taxes and medical insurance..thereby making domestic employees more attractive.
At the end of the season they could go home to await the next harvest season.
Why wouldn't anyone want things done in order..unless someone wants to sneak them in line as citizen-voters.

I think both major political parties are failing the U.S. in this.. The Republicans want cheap (cheat) labor and the Democrats want cheap (cheat) voters.

saddlebum · « **Reply #56 on:** July 11, 2012, 11:49:59 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on July 11, 2012, 10:42:52 AM

So what's wrong with the braceros program ? They could screen miscreants out , keep a record of their coming and going, be sure they pay their share of taxes and medical insurance..thereby making domestic employees more attractive.
At the end of the season they could go home to await the next harvest season.
Why wouldn't anyone want things done in order..unless someone wants to sneak them in line as citizen-voters.

I think both major political parties are failing the U.S. in this.. The Republicans want cheap (cheat) labor and the Democrats want cheap (cheat) voters.

Exactly!

hardertr · « **Reply #57 on:** July 11, 2012, 01:14:41 PM »

Why are we so hell-bent on "them" paying taxes?? If they have to pay taxes, we have to pay them more than they get (usually much less than minimum wage). Some of the best labor gets paid under the table.

And WHO CARES if they send their money back to Mexico? As long as it keeps our produce prices low, everybody wins.....except the government. Is it that you think the government NEEDS more money to waste??

gstewart44 · « **Reply #58 on:** July 11, 2012, 01:58:30 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on July 11, 2012, 10:42:52 AM

Why wouldn't anyone want things done in order..unless someone wants to sneak them in line as citizen-voters.

BINGO!!!!

powderman · « **Reply #59 on:** July 11, 2012, 03:03:24 PM »

Quote

Real immigration reform is needed with a real "guest worker", "work visa", "closed borders", "law enforcement" and whatever it takes to control the problem of illegal immigration and allow Mexicans to come here and work, and then go home!

Thats it rt there. The important word here is LEGAL, what part of that is so hard to understand ?? POWDERMAN.