Author Topic: Marines - always heroes? (Read 1947 times)

yellowtail3 · « **on:** July 09, 2012, 06:11:22 AM »

A while back someone turned me onto lewRockwell.com
Don't know who Lew is, but there are some very good articles there. Some are very provocative, and not a bit PC. Read this last night -- http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance274.html

Read about author here http://www.vancepublications.com/about%20lmv.htm

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Marines, why do you do this to your families?

Based on the words of various Marines interviewed or talked about in this series, I say to those who made it through what I wish I could also say to twenty-five young men who didn’t:

If you just wanted to feel the trill of leading men in battle, then shame on you. If you just couldn’t find a job so you enlisted in the Marines, then shame on you. If you just wanted to experience the mental and physical challenge, then shame on you. If you just enlisted because your father was a Marine, then shame on you. If you just wanted to go to war, then shame on you. If you just thought you were defending our freedoms, then shame on you. If you just wanted to die a hero, then shame on you. If you just felt you had to complete the mission, then shame on you. If you just enlisted because you thought your government needed you, then shame on you. If you thought there was just no better job than being a Marine, then shame on you.

I have no doubt that the Marines of the Darkhorse Battalion fought valiantly. I am not questioning their manhood, courage, or determination. But I also have no doubt that each of the deaths of those twenty-five Marines from the Darkhorse Battalion was preventable, unnecessary, and senseless.

Lance Cpl. Josue Barron, who lost an eye, a leg, and some of his close friends, at the end of a discussion about whether everything that happened in Afghanistan was "worth it," said: "It was worth it. If I say it wasn’t worth it, what about my friends that died? I’m disrespecting them, like they died for nothing."

Sorry, Josue, as much as you may not want to face it, and no matter how many times you tell yourself that it was "worth it," your friends died in vain just like those unfortunate U.S. soldiers who died in Iraq. Likewise, the only thing that the Marines in Afghanistan died for was a lie.

The most maddening and depressing thing out of all that I have heard from this series on the Darkhorse Battalion is the closing paragraph from Tom Bowman’s 50-minute report:

Darkhorse Battalion will deploy again sometime next year, but this time they’re going on what’s known as a Marine Expeditionary Unit. They’ll head on ships across the Pacific making port calls and being ready for anything from a humanitarian disaster to a rescue operation. The families are relived, but many of the Marines we spoke with just want to go back to Afghanistan.

Go back to Afghanistan? Marines, why do you do this to your families? I plead with you to heed the words of U.S. Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler (1881-1940), a two-time Congressional Medal of Honor winner who came to the conclusion that:

War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

Shame on you for putting the Marines above your families. Shame on you for making a god out of the Marines.

BBF · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2012, 02:40:41 AM »

IMO the word "Hero" has become so commonly used that it has lost its original meaning.

Shu · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2012, 03:12:43 PM »

No not all Marines are heroes, there is just the normal run of the mill Marine who enlisted becuase he felt fortunate to live in America so he does his tour and goes home. There are a few who decided the Corps is home.
YT3,
Not sure what you are trying to say, I am guessing you are saying think before you enlist the politicians don't have your best interest at heart.

BBF · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2012, 06:06:12 AM »

Quote from: Shu on July 10, 2012, 03:12:43 PM

..................
......................... I am guessing you are saying think before you enlist the politicians don't have your best interest at heart.

IMO.none at all. Their main interest is staying in Office.

RevJim · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2012, 07:00:16 AM »

I take offense at the article's numerous 'shame on you" statements. I wasn't a marine, but I did volunteer during the Vietnam war. I saw many a young man develop and mature under the discipline of military life, including myself. I met and served under some real Warriors, and some very real idiots. Military service is a very personal thing. Some men "do" want to lead men into battle, serve their country, be in combat, further their education via available programs, etc, etc. Is it worth it? Only the individual can say it is or not, whether anyone else belives it or not. Men have an inherit need for some kind of "Rite of Passage" from adolescent to adulthood. If they do not get it, it takes them years of struggling to find their place in the world. Its easier to get killed on the highway than in combat. Heroes? Not all, but some definitly. Is war a racket? Sure. Are some deaths senseless, sure. However, a non smoker dying of cancer from second-hand smoke is senseless also, where do you draw the line?
I am simply saying that some men are wired for the military, some aren't. I understand the pain to families, but come on, it goes with the territory. To say "shame on you" to a man who chose his path in life is asinine and intrusive. Only in America does this guy have a "Right" to speak his mind, and "someone" had to pay the butcher's bill for that right.

lakota · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2012, 07:21:08 AM »

What a bunch of crap. Yeah lets lay blame for these endless wars at the feet of the soldiers themselves. If they would all just do the right thing and desert there wouldn't be any more wars. Sure they might lose their freedom by deserting but its the right thing to do and its for the greater good! Lets lay no blame at the feet of the politicians or the voters who keep electing war mongering pigs. It is all the fault of the soldier! Shame on them for joining the military! Unadulterated garbage. Stop electing war mongers and wars will stop. Don't blame some kid for joining the military because maybe he would like some training or college education without amassing a mountain of debt.

DDZ · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:49:46 AM »

Quote from: lakota on July 12, 2012, 07:21:08 AM

What a bunch of crap.

I agree what a piece of garbage. Wonder how marines and other men in service feel about this garbage? Many join the service, because they feel its the most honorable job they can do for their country. It implies its a shame calling these men hero's. Who are our hero's? I guess when we live in a society that views people like Micheal Jackson, Hollywood stars, and professional sports stars as heroes, this article fits. What a pathetic piece of trash.

powderman · « **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2012, 03:48:54 PM »

DDZ, LAKOTA. Good posts. This whole thread was started to be anti U.S. military. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #8 on:** July 12, 2012, 04:10:34 PM »

A whole load of tripe...by a nerd stricken with "macho envy". He in his apparently soul dead to such things as patriotism, altruism, a sense of adventure and gratitude to one's own country. He apparently understands little of youthful elan & courage, since he likely never experienced the same.
This Vance fellow first sets up a straw man..saying no matter how a Marine were to explain it..they were to be ashamed !
Then he screwed up his infinitessimal "courage" and knocked the straw man down with one swipe !! Gutsy guy !

(" just because you call a dog's tail a leg...doesn't mean it IS a leg." ..Abraham Lincoln)

After you presented his self-centered screed..you wanted us to view the mass of "credentials" claimed by this author. We have no way of knowing the real degrees from diploma mills...but it really doesn't matter.
I read that list of "credentials" through twice and did not see a single mention of the most important credentials tgo have if he wants to criticize our brave troops.....

I saw no mention of the award of an HONORABLE DISCHARGE..MEDALS...or even a DD 214..

As far as I am concerned..he may as well.... GO SPIT INTO THE WIND !

Nuke41 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2012, 01:59:56 AM »

The young men and women that volunteer to serve their nation aren’t doing it to be defined or rewarded as “heroes”. What they don’t deserve is the vilification that this article and some of the similar recent postings on GBO typify; that the soldiers are somehow villains in the prosecution of the wars America is participating in. Today the prevailing arguments against people wanting to serve their nation seem to be; they don’t like the wars we’re currently fighting, they want to be able to decide which wars they would fight in the future on a case by case basis as they see fit and because they might have the opportunity to do something more lucrative or fun rather than fight. It sounds like 99% of Americans are better suited to paintball than to war. Thank goodness we have that other 1%.

Dee · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2012, 02:08:46 AM »

I had never heard of Lew Rockwell, until now. It seems that he was not too recently outed as the author of the racist newsletters on Ron Pauls website. Since then Ron Paul and company have distanced themselves from Mr. Rockwell. So it would seem that Mr. Rockwell is nothing more than a propagandist whom sells his trade to the "highest bidder", and "will ride whomever's agenda horse". In other words, he markets himself on "shock value" to those whom are easily influenced by the exaggerated topic of the day.

ironglow · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2012, 02:10:29 AM »

Quote from: Nuke41 on July 13, 2012, 01:59:56 AM

The young men and women that volunteer to serve their nation aren’t doing it to be defined or rewarded as “heroes”. What they don’t deserve is the vilification that this article and some of the similar recent postings on GBO typify; that the soldiers are somehow villains in the prosecution of the wars America is participating in. Today the prevailing arguments against people wanting to serve their nation seem to be; they don’t like the wars we’re currently fighting, they want to be able to decide which wars they would fight in the future on a case by case basis as they see fit and because they might have the opportunity to do something more lucrative or fun rather than fight. It sounds like 99% of Americans are better suited to paintball than to war. Thank goodness we have that other 1%.

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....And some are just plain.. "skeered as a puppy"..

powderman · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2012, 02:37:14 AM »

Quote

What they don’t deserve is the vilification that this article and some of the similar recent postings on GBO typify; that the soldiers are somehow villains in the prosecution of the wars America is participating in.

NUKE 41. Good post Sir, that was the purpose in the op of this thread. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2012, 05:08:03 AM »

Quote from: Dee on July 13, 2012, 02:08:46 AM

I had never heard of Lew Rockwell, until now. It seems that he was not too recently outed as the author of the racist newsletters on Ron Pauls website. Since then Ron Paul and company have distanced themselves from Mr. Rockwell. So it would seem that Mr. Rockwell is nothing more than a propagandist whom sells his trade to the "highest bidder", and "will ride whomever's agenda horse". In other words, he markets himself on "shock value" to those whom are easily influenced by the exaggerated topic of the day.

You have to consider the source. Rockwell is doing this to get attention. He got caught on Pauls website, was booted off, and now folks are distancing themselves from him. Or at least they should be. He is a guy that will take the most disgusting side of a discussion simply to get attention. As long as folks are debating him, reading him, and paying attention to him, he's makin money. For the right kinda money, he could just as easily take the other side of the argument, but then most would agree with him, and he would fall back into obscurity. Hey! This crap might get him on TV!

ironglow · « **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:46:27 PM »

Quote from: Dee on July 13, 2012, 05:08:03 AM

Quote from: Dee on July 13, 2012, 02:08:46 AM
I had never heard of Lew Rockwell, until now. It seems that he was not too recently outed as the author of the racist newsletters on Ron Pauls website. Since then Ron Paul and company have distanced themselves from Mr. Rockwell. So it would seem that Mr. Rockwell is nothing more than a propagandist whom sells his trade to the "highest bidder", and "will ride whomever's agenda horse". In other words, he markets himself on "shock value" to those whom are easily influenced by the exaggerated topic of the day.

You have to consider the source. Rockwell is doing this to get attention. He got caught on Pauls website, was booted off, and now folks are distancing themselves from him. Or at least they should be. He is a guy that will take the most disgusting side of a discussion simply to get attention. As long as folks are debating him, reading him, and paying attention to him, he's makin money. For the right kinda money, he could just as easily take the other side of the argument, but then most would agree with him, and he would fall back into obscurity. Hey! This crap might get him on TV!

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Like the teenager who gets his/her hair done in a red "rooster comb" or gets 1/2 pound of rings piercing through his ears. nose, cheeks or whatever... Rockwell craves attention..
There once was another Rockwell years ago who craved just such attention.. a fellow named Lincoln Rockwell, I don't know if they are related..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVDNWNAQ42g&feature=related

http://www.americannaziparty.com/rockwell/index.php

He too, cozied up to Islam:
http://www.anthonyflood.com/rockwellelijah.htm

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2012, 02:25:00 PM »

Being a MARINE myself this just PISSES ME OFF , why would anyone purposely disrespect a man or woman that is willing to put their life on the line for another . Being a Marine is not just about fighting wars , its about being HUMAN , yes we will fight and die if need be , yet we do it not for glory or fame , we do it for HONOR & COUNTRY .

The best way I can describe a MARINE is with a few lines from an old poem .

"Theirs is not to make reply , Theirs is not to reason why ,Theirs but to do and die, "

When lives are on the line , I'd want a MARINE coming to help me !!!!!!!!!!

stimpylu32
USMC

ironglow · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2012, 02:37:08 PM »

Quote from: stimpylu32 on July 14, 2012, 02:25:00 PM

Being a MARINE myself this just PISSES ME OFF , why would anyone purposely disrespect a man or woman that is willing to put their life on the line for another . Being a Marine is not just about fighting wars , its about being HUMAN , yes we will fight and die if need be , yet we do it not for glory or fame , we do it for HONOR & COUNTRY .

The best way I can describe a MARINE is with a few lines from an old poem .

"Theirs is not to make reply , Theirs is not to reason why ,Theirs but to do and die, "

When lives are on the line , I'd want a MARINE coming to help me !!!!!!!!!!

stimpylu32
USMC

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Stimpy..a soldier veteran here...and I agree with you completely. I also get irate when anyone attempts to belittle our troops.. Our troops are willing to do what about 98 % of the population are either unwilling ..or afraid to do. The very lead in to this thread is presented as a fatuous, ill-informed question..

Let's take a look..we are asked: "Marines - always heroes ?"

Well DUH! Are firemen, police, cowboys, barbers, soccer players and Indian Chiefs always heroes ?
Marines aren't always "heroes"..most of their time is spent training or doing their day-to-day tasks, without a chance to be a hero.. One thing the poster forgot; just enlisting in the Marines or Army today and being in combat arms, making themselves available for almost certain combat, while many of their contemporaries are afraid, does automatically place a "one-up" mantle upon their shoulders.
Now let's go to the article this dolt, whom I see as an enemy agent has written:

http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance274.html

He asks a stupid question, or rather makes a stupid accusation.. " Marines, Why Do You Do This to Your Families?"

Then he goes on to berate Marines for being, brave, altruistic, patriotic, and selfless..

That very sentence sounds exactly like some of the excerment that flowed from the mouth of both AXIS SALLY or TOKYO ROSE dsuring WW2.
That is how they did their best to serve Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan...by trying to demoralize the troops.
I would not be caught reprinting this trash...and giving the enemy even that much comfort.
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223fan · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2012, 02:51:06 PM »

Quote from: stimpylu32 on July 14, 2012, 02:25:00 PM

Being a MARINE myself this just PISSES ME OFF , why would anyone purposely disrespect a man or woman that is willing to put their life on the line for another . Being a Marine is not just about fighting wars , its about being HUMAN , yes we will fight and die if need be , yet we do it not for glory or fame , we do it for HONOR & COUNTRY .

The best way I can describe a MARINE is with a few lines from an old poem .

"Theirs is not to make reply , Theirs is not to reason why ,Theirs but to do and die, "

When lives are on the line , I'd want a MARINE coming to help me !!!!!!!!!!

stimpylu32
USMC

Excellent post

powderman · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2012, 03:04:32 PM »

Quote from: stimpylu32 on July 14, 2012, 02:25:00 PM

Being a MARINE myself this just PISSES ME OFF , why would anyone purposely disrespect a man or woman that is willing to put their life on the line for another . Being a Marine is not just about fighting wars , its about being HUMAN , yes we will fight and die if need be , yet we do it not for glory or fame , we do it for HONOR & COUNTRY .

The best way I can describe a MARINE is with a few lines from an old poem .

"Theirs is not to make reply , Theirs is not to reason why ,Theirs but to do and die, "

When lives are on the line , I'd want a MARINE coming to help me !!!!!!!!!!

stimpylu32
USMC

Great post Sir. POWDERMAN.

Dee · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2012, 03:13:55 PM »

Not to beat a very deceased horse guys, but as I said: CONSIDER THE SOURCE, and realize it his words are not really worth the anger. They are the words of a fool.

ironglow · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2012, 03:29:21 PM »

When he asks, "Marines, why do you do this to your families?"..this author sounds like Tokyo Rose. Here, listen to Tokyo Rose... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQxzAunC8II&feature=fvwrel

Then there was "Axis Sally", here, trying to demoralize American women by short wave radio;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BawaeCmh_Cc

Then there was Lord Hwa Haw (William Joyce) broadcasting from Germany:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufsQSDdEo8A&feature=related

Three of them, traitors all !!

lakota · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2012, 06:35:39 PM »

Quote from: Dee on July 14, 2012, 03:13:55 PM

CONSIDER THE SOURCE, and realize it his words are not really worth the anger. They are the words of a fool.

Roger that sir. Very true.

BBF · « **Reply #22 on:** July 15, 2012, 04:07:14 AM »

Dang !!
Here we go again, somehow the Nazis sneaked into this again, with Tokyo Rose to boot

.

BTW.IMO. When as a soldier you get used like a mercenary it is time to get a discharge.

ironglow · « **Reply #23 on:** July 15, 2012, 06:08:01 AM »

Quote from: BBF on July 15, 2012, 04:07:14 AM

Dang !!
Here we go again, somehow the Nazis sneaked into this again, with Tokyo Rose to boot .

BTW.IMO. When as a soldier you get used like a mercenary it is time to get a discharge.

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Anyone who has even a small understanding of history would recognize the following statement as one that is virtually a carbon copy of propaganda spewed by those WW2 fifth columists:

" Marines, why do you do this to your families ?"

If you read the article posted and then viewed the videos provided...no thinking man could deny the obvious word choices and propagandizing techniques practiced by Tokyo Rose, Axis Sally and this mouthpiece for the "hate America" crowd..

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 15, 2012, 03:33:38 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on July 14, 2012, 03:29:21 PM

When he asks, "Marines, why do you do this to your families?"..this author sounds like Tokyo Rose.
... Three of them, traitors all !!

Traitors? The writer of the article I linked/quoted is a 'traitor'? How so? saying he sounds to you like Tokyo rose don't cut it... And I will be the one to inform... Failure to worship the military does not a traitor make.

briarpatch · « **Reply #25 on:** July 15, 2012, 04:14:39 PM »

Is a military job above any other job? I personaly dont think so. I appreciate, support and respect those that serve WITH HONOR. I also appreciate support and respect other professions, mechanics, electricians, garbage men, ETC. that makes life easeir for us.
I have found when a dumb man joins the military he is dumb when he gets out, a lazy man stays lazy and a mean man stays mean.
To me a hero in the military is a man or woman that reguardless of where he is, in or out, will change the world for the better.
As to the article, I can agree with it.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 15, 2012, 05:54:49 PM »

In my opinion, yes they are heroes. They willingfully, and dutifully, don the uniform with the emblem of the American flag, and fight for our nation's honor, and in her defense. The same affection extends to the other military service branches, especially since my sister is a Lt. Colonel in the US Army Reserve.

Also, anyone who knowingly works to undermine the military, its esprit de corps, and the nation it represents, is a seditious traitor, in my opinion. The US Marine Corps, and its sister service branches, defend this nation, and the rights of seditious traitors, liberals, and fifth column parasites, to be total and utter jack@#$es.

The next time you see a person wearing a United States military uniform, walk up to them, shake their hand, and say, "Thank you."

ST762

Pot-Bellied Stallion · « **Reply #27 on:** July 16, 2012, 02:31:53 AM »

As an Army vet, a lot of the men and women I knew in the military enlisted to GET AWAY FROM FAMILY or WITH THE BLESSINGS OF THEIR FAMILIES. My oldest son enlisted right out of high school because he wanted to serve his country. He had wanted to be in the military since jr. high school. He went in a boy and came home a man, ready to become a contributing member of society. That alone makes him a hero in my book.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #28 on:** July 16, 2012, 02:32:34 AM »

I was Air Force before a lot of you were born, and I think any boy/girl who volunteers for possible combat should be considered heros.
I don't have the money to buy them all a meal, but sometimes I'll lay a few bucks on their table as I leave the restaurant and tell'em, at least let me get the tip.
I saw troops mis-treated in the 60s by civilians, and I consider those types as traitors.

powderman · « **Reply #29 on:** July 16, 2012, 02:46:30 AM »

Quote from: BUGEYE on July 16, 2012, 02:32:34 AM

I was Air Force before a lot of you were born, and I think any boy/girl who volunteers for possible combat should be considered heros.
I don't have the money to buy them all a meal, but sometimes I'll lay a few bucks on their table as I leave the restaurant and tell'em, at least let me get the tip.
I saw troops mis-treated in the 60s by civilians, and I consider those types as traitors.

BUGEYE. Good post Sir, and traitors they were. POWDERMAN.