Should we ask God to BLESS our troops, or just keep them alive?

[yellowtail3]

http://libertarianchristians.com/2012/07/05/on-blessing-the-troops/


Something I had not thought out, though it was stirring. I just might agree with this guy -


Snippet:
.If you go to church at all you’ve probably heard the prayer requests: "Protect our troops in harm’s way," "Shield our men and women overseas from the enemy," "Keep our brave soldiers safe," "Defend our soldiers as they defend our freedoms." And even if you don’t attend church, you’ve seen the signs outside of business and on bumper stickers: "God bless our troops."But does anyone ever stop and consider whether we should ask God to bless the troops?
The war Afghanistan, like the war in Iraq, is a monstrous evil. U.S. troops are not defending our freedoms, protecting America, upholding the Constitution, keeping us safe from terrorists, preserving our way of life, fighting them "over there" so we don’t have to fight them "over here," or any of the other blather that passes for reality now a days. To those on the receiving end of American bombs, missiles, and bullets in Afghanistan (and Pakistan, Yemen, etc.), U.S. troops are attackers, invaders, trespassers, occupiers, aggressors, and killers. I conclude with Jacob Hornberger of the Future of Freedom Foundation that[/size]after 10 years of invasion, occupation, torture, killings, incarcerations, renditions, assassinations, death, destruction, anger, hatred, and the constant threat of terrorist retaliation, it’s time to admit that the military invasion of Afghanistan, like that of Iraq, was horribly wrong.And as much as Americans also don’t want to admit it, because these wars and military operations are unnecessary, immoral, and unjust, and U.S. troops have innocent blood on their hands.
Yet, I am sometimes told, even by opponents of current U.S. military actions, that it is the president, the politicians, the ruling class, the neoconservatives, the Joint Chiefs, the military brass, the defense contractors, and/or the Congress that should be blamed for these wars.
My detractors have forgotten one important group: the soldiers that do the actual fighting. They are the ones invading, occupying, torturing, killing, maiming, incarcerating, indefinite detaining, extraordinary renditioning, assassinating, destroying property, stirring up anger and hatred against the United States, and increasing the threat of terrorist retaliation – not the president, not the politicians, not the ruling class, not the neoconservatives, not the Joint Chiefs, not the military brass, not the defense contractors, and not the Congress.[/font]
   

[Gary G]

For the most part, these are young impressionable people. I blame the ones that hoodooed them with propaganda and their parents for not protecting them. In church, I don't pray for the military or the troops. I pray for peace in the world. Saying something like this, "Lord we pray for peace in the world for in peace there is prosperity and happiness, but in war there is nothing but destruction and sorrow".


It is always the young and innocent that catch the bullets while those who start the wars live in safety.



Now the warmongers, ignorant of history, will bellicose loudly I presume.


________________________________________________
Have you ever thought about this: If we did not have governments, we would not have wars.

[Doublebass73]

These lyrics are 40 years old but still just as relevant:

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death's construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh Lord yeah!
 
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait 'til their judgement day comes
Yeah!
 
Now in darkness world stops turning
Ashes where the bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees the war pig's crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing spreads his wings
Oh Lord yeah!

[bigMikeA]

http://libertarianchristians.com/2012/07/05/on-blessing-the-troops/


Something I had not thought out, though it was stirring. I just might agree with this guy -


Snippet:
.If you go to church at all you’ve probably heard the prayer requests: "Protect our troops in harm’s way," "Shield our men and women overseas from the enemy," "Keep our brave soldiers safe," "Defend our soldiers as they defend our freedoms." And even if you don’t attend church, you’ve seen the signs outside of business and on bumper stickers: "God bless our troops."But does anyone ever stop and consider whether we should ask God to bless the troops?
The war Afghanistan, like the war in Iraq, is a monstrous evil. U.S. troops are not defending our freedoms, protecting America, upholding the Constitution, keeping us safe from terrorists, preserving our way of life, fighting them "over there" so we don’t have to fight them "over here," or any of the other blather that passes for reality now a days. To those on the receiving end of American bombs, missiles, and bullets in Afghanistan (and Pakistan, Yemen, etc.), U.S. troops are attackers, invaders, trespassers, occupiers, aggressors, and killers. I conclude with Jacob Hornberger of the Future of Freedom Foundation thatafter 10 years of invasion, occupation, torture, killings, incarcerations, renditions, assassinations, death, destruction, anger, hatred, and the constant threat of terrorist retaliation, it’s time to admit that the military invasion of Afghanistan, like that of Iraq, was horribly wrong.And as much as Americans also don’t want to admit it, because these wars and military operations are unnecessary, immoral, and unjust, and U.S. troops have innocent blood on their hands.
Yet, I am sometimes told, even by opponents of current U.S. military actions, that it is the president, the politicians, the ruling class, the neoconservatives, the Joint Chiefs, the military brass, the defense contractors, and/or the Congress that should be blamed for these wars.
My detractors have forgotten one important group: the soldiers that do the actual fighting. They are the ones invading, occupying, torturing, killing, maiming, incarcerating, indefinite detaining, extraordinary renditioning, assassinating, destroying property, stirring up anger and hatred against the United States, and increasing the threat of terrorist retaliation – not the president, not the politicians, not the ruling class, not the neoconservatives, not the Joint Chiefs, not the military brass, not the defense contractors, and not the Congress.
 

NO!

[bigMikeA]

For the most part, these are young impressionable people. I blame the ones that hoodooed them with propaganda and their parents for not protecting them. In church, I don't pray for the military or the troops. I pray for peace in the world. Saying something like this, "Lord we pray for peace in the world for in peace there is prosperity and happiness, but in war there is nothing but destruction and sorrow".


It is always the young and innocent that catch the bullets while those who start the wars live in safety.



Now the warmongers, ignorant of history, will bellicose loudly I presume.


________________________________________________
Have you ever thought about this: If we did not have governments, we would not have wars.

I am not a warmonger nor ignorant of history;  you are wrong!  bellicosing softly....

[yellowtail3]

NO!

What are you saying 'no' to, Big Mike?

[Nuke41]

My detractors have forgotten one important group: the soldiers that do the actual fighting. They are the ones invading, occupying, torturing, killing, maiming, incarcerating, indefinite detaining, extraordinary renditioning, assassinating, destroying property, stirring up anger and hatred against the United States, and increasing the threat of terrorist retaliation – not the president, not the politicians, not the ruling class, not the neoconservatives, not the Joint Chiefs, not the military brass, not the defense contractors, and not the Congress,

My last go round before I retired was 2006 in Afghanistan.  When I was there I didn’t need or want anyone’s prayers.  All I needed was quality equipment for the tasks at hand, timely fire support on call if needed, basic creature comforts when they could be had, on time pay for my family back home and the hope that I’d get quality medical care if I was injured or a respectful funeral if I was killed.
 

[bigMikeA]

NO!

What are you saying 'no' to, Big Mike?

My detractors have forgotten one important group: the soldiers that do the actual fighting. They are the ones invading, occupying, torturing, killing, maiming, incarcerating, indefinite detaining, extraordinary renditioning, assassinating, destroying property, stirring up anger and hatred against the United States, and increasing the threat of terrorist retaliation – not the president, not the politicians, not the ruling class, not the neoconservatives, not the Joint Chiefs, not the military brass, not the defense contractors, and not the Congress.

   

I blame the ones that hoodooed them with propaganda and their parents for not protecting them. In church, I don't pray for the military or the troops. I pray for peace in the world

   

[yellowtail3]

I surmise by frowns faces you did not like those sentiments.

Do you believe that soldiers bear no moral responsibility for immoral acts they commit... Or that there are any immoral acts in wartime, even?

Spell it out, BigMike....

[hardertr]

My last go round before I retired was 2006 in Afghanistan.  When I was there I didn’t need or want anyone’s prayers.  All I needed was quality equipment for the tasks at hand, timely fire support on call if needed, basic creature comforts when they could be had, on time pay for my family back home and the hope that I’d get quality medical care if I was injured or a respectful funeral if I was killed.

Pretty much what Nuke said.


I couldn't have cared less about folks "praying for me" back home.  I wasn't fighting a religious war (even though it felt like it at times).  What REALLY used to piss me off is care packages with Bibles in them and notes asking me to hand them out to the "poor, misguided Muslims".  I felt like sending every one of those damned Bibles back to the sender letting them know God has no place in war.  War is man-made, just like most (I won't say ALL, because I have no proof either way) of the religious views of today.

[briarpatch]

Iregaurdless of how we think, those same soldiers, without constraint would perform the same upon this soil to this people. (flame)
We should pray for peace and that the will of the Lord be done. As Christians we should actively seek peace not conflict.

[Junior1942]

.......What REALLY used to piss me off is care packages with Bibles in them and notes asking me to hand them out to the "poor, misguided Muslims".  I felt like sending every one of those damned Bibles back to the sender letting them know God has no place in war. 

I would have refunded every ˘ of your postage.

[BBF]

You know I am one of the first to "bitch" if I see personal attacks.
With Big Mike, I have the same problem as YT3. I don't know what he is trying to say.
 
To the topic It meminds me of the Belt buckles and other phrases ie
 
For God and Country
 
Gott Mit Uns
 
Praise God and pass the Ammo  etc.
 
Your and mine Armed Forces are not used for Defense these days.

[saddlebum]

There is something wrong with a movement that has to have a website solely dedicated to reconciling their philosophy with Christianity.........Just sayin

[yellowtail3]

There is something wrong with a movement that has to have a website solely dedicated to reconciling their philosophy with Christianity.........Just sayin

let me offer a reason for it: much of what passes for public, political Christian 'values' aren't the same as The Gospel, and are not non-negotiable fundamentals of the faith. The author of the website is making the case that Mere Christianity is not incompatible with libertarian political Philosophy.

I have not read the whole site - heck, I only saw it a couple days ago - but I think he makes a compelling argument

FWIW, Randroids irritate me sometimes.... But that is no reason not to make common cause were I can.

[powderman]

We pray for our military every day. POWDERMAN. 

[BBF]

If I were a praying guy I would ask for Justice( Golden Rule as as base) by who or whatever can dish it out.

[Doublebass73]

There is something wrong with a movement that has to have a website solely dedicated to reconciling their philosophy with Christianity.........Just sayin

You mean like these ones?
http://christianconservative.org/

http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Christianity

Conservative Christians A forum for conservative Christians of all denominations - http://www.christianforums.com/f791/

[saddlebum]

There is something wrong with a movement that has to have a website solely dedicated to reconciling their philosophy with Christianity.........Just sayin

You mean like these ones?
http://christianconservative.org/

http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Christianity

Conservative Christians A forum for conservative Christians of all denominations - http://www.christianforums.com/f791/

Yep!
 
And I still say that the linked Libertarian web page is wandering into Westboro Baptist territory.

[nomosendero]

Seems to be a lack of knowledge here:
 
Since a Christian should pray for their enemies it would seem a little inconsistant to not pray for our Military.
 
Of course when it comes to their actions, we should also pray that we fight for the right reason, mainly self-preservation & do what you can to stop fruitless, political wars & it doesn't huirt to pray for peace.

[Doublebass73]

There is something wrong with a movement that has to have a website solely dedicated to reconciling their philosophy with Christianity.........Just sayin

You mean like these ones?
http://christianconservative.org/

http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Christianity

Conservative Christians A forum for conservative Christians of all denominations - http://www.christianforums.com/f791/

Yep!
 
And I still say that the linked Libertarian web page is wandering into Westboro Baptist territory.

I know, it's tough to deal with facts so it's always best to ignore them and change the subject.

[yellowtail3]

And I still say that the linked Libertarian web page is wandering into Westboro Baptist territory.

well, the same could be said of a great many fundamentalist.... They all seem to hate gays, too. Anyhow... I would be interested to know how you view the libertarian Christians and Westbrook baptists as being alike. We already know they're a long ways apart on gays.

[saddlebum]

That some joined the military out of a sense of patriotism after 9/11 or that some joined the military because they were deceived by a recruiter or that some joined the military out of ignorance of U.S. foreign policy or that some joined the military because they couldn’t find gainful employment still doesn’t change the fact that it is the soldiers who do the actual fighting.Yes, they are pawns in the deadly game of U.S. foreign policy, but as free moral agents they are still responsible for their actions. So, if it is true that current U.S. military actions are morally wrong, then it stands to reason that asking God to bless the troops would not only be an exercise in futility, but downright blasphemous.  -Libertarian Laurence Vance
http://libertarianchristians.com/2012/07/05/on-blessing-the-troops/
 
 
“You know while this young man is being buried tomorrow, you’re going to have people across this nation gearing up for their gay pride parades this weekend.  That’s what he fought for; those are the rights that he fought for, for people to brazenly and openly sin before God’s face.  So juxtapose those things together.  You have a guy being laid in the ground at his untimely death at the hand of an angry God, and you have the perverted people, this wicked generation, that he died for.  I mean if you have a cause, it ought to be a righteous cause, a cause for God, not a cause for a filthy nation.”  -Ben Phelps, grandson of Westboro Baptist founder Fred Phelps
http://banning-beaumont.patch.com/articles/westboro-baptist-church-yucaipa-soldier-s-death-was-direct-judgment-from-god
 
Wandering into Westboro Baptist territory.................
 
 

[saddlebum]

Don't pray for God to Bless them?

[Duke0313]

Amen, Saddlebum!!!! How 'bout asking God to bless us ALL EVERYDAY! Regardless of who we/they are. I know I'll take all I can get!
And anyone who truly believes those fine young men and women are NOT over there protecting our freedoms are sorely mistaken and in need of a history lesson!

[saddlebum]

A person can view their faith through the lense of their politics, or,
 
A person can view their politics through the lense of their faith.
 
I choose the latter..............

[BBF]

You have this wonderful Statue in the New York Harbour. IMO if she could cry there be streams of tears rolling down.

[nomosendero]

You have this wonderful Statue in the New York Harbour. IMO if she could cry there be streams of tears rolling down.

For reasons far beyond this thread

[billy_56081]

Killing ones enemies is not wrong immoral or anything to be ashamed of. Too bad the world has been ridden with liberal guilt.

[ironglow]

  No genuine Christian warrior would want the "prayers" of these so-called "libeertarian/Christians..  With the attitudes displayed by their advocates here and on their website...personally, I rather doubt their prayers would be worth a plugged nickel anyway !
  Libertarian/Christian..seems to be a contradiction in terms, with no honest way of reconciling the two !  Libertarians have no problem with many moral issues..prostitution, illicit drugs (sorcery), abortion, various perversions etc.  ...But God does have a problem with those libertarian tenets and many more of them.  In fact, Libertarians in general, seem to have no time for Godly things.
  Elijah put it quite succinctly about 3500 years ago:
********************************* 
    " And Elijah came to all the people, and said, How long halt you between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."  ( I Kings 18:21)
***********************************************
   
     Libertarians and Biblical Christians are actually worlds apart.there is no way to reconcile the two in an honest manner.
 
 
 
Matthew had it right 2,000 years ago:
 
 *******************************
   " No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.  ( Matthew 6:24)
*************************************************************
 
  Tell that bunch to quit punching themselves in the face..