Author Topic: Horrible performance from the 180 ssp in max(UPDATE) (Read 2428 times)

bucco921 · « **on:** July 09, 2012, 12:14:05 PM »

Has anyone else had issues with the 180 ssp in their maxi? I cant get them to shoot good enough to even feel comfortable hunting with. I took the forearm off, dried latch etc, still no luck. One shot goes 3 inches high, next in the bullseye and then one 3 inches low. I'm stumped. Lock up is tight, no lateral movement. Ive got bad luck with 35 cal handis..... 28 grains of aa1680 seated to the cannelure.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:29:19 PM »

Scope or sites?

bucco921 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:31:16 PM »

scope, everything s tight

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:32:58 PM »

Could be the load just does not work in your rifle, have you tried seating the bullet out further? In our beloved Handi's the bullets do not have to be seated in the cannalure.Try seating them out further first
Another problem I have run into is the chamber was reamed out of alignment with the bore of the rifle. This can be checked with a chamber cast.If the spirals of the rifeling are not in alignment with each other the chamber was cut crooked
If this is the case the barrel is a good candidate for re-chambering to a 356/358 or a stub job. Ask petemi how his shoots

Good Luck

Jason F · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:39:48 PM »

In that barrel i was loading them almost touching rifling,tap one in rifling and measure with cleaning rod them mark cleaning rod touching breech face, i load mine almost touching

Jason F · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:47:54 PM »

That was on sb2 frame, so i didnt worry about a little extra pressure being so close to rifling with bullet

Jason F · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:26:48 PM »

Crimp just enough to get rid of flare from expander die

JimP. · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:53:19 PM »

Try max load using W296/H110, rifle primer and a good crimp in the crimp groove...1 high, 1 right on, 1 low...to me that means not complete burn of powder...JimP.

demented · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2012, 05:58:15 PM »

I'd try a scope I 100% know was good. I've had more than my share of grief from scopes that have let go.

revbc · « **Reply #9 on:** July 10, 2012, 02:37:47 AM »

Try backing off the powder charge, see what happens. I do not use a crimp.

Rodland · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2012, 02:42:30 AM »

Just my 2 cents worth, but 28 grains is above max. Try 26. Group should improve.

edit: Well you have it from the revbc as I was replying so give it a try.

petemi · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2012, 02:51:01 AM »

A while back, I loaded a few SSPs over 22.5 gr. W296 for a chronyed 1975 fps. The rifle is sighted in for the 158 gr. XTP. at about 2100. Just now, after reading this thread, I shot both loads alternating every other shot. They both grouped in one ragged hole at 75 yards The SSPs and XTPs are crimped just below the cannelure with the entire band showing. As previously stated, I'd slow her down a bit. I don't know where your problem lies, but one thing I'm sure of, it's not the bullet. I hope this helps.

Pete

bucco921 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2012, 10:10:30 AM »

I will try whats been suggested. Im not gonna open the can of worms over what max charge is... its been discussed plenty before. I will back her down a bit and play with o.a.l.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2012, 01:07:40 PM »

Lil'Gun works well for me with that same bullet.

watkibe · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2012, 03:46:48 PM »

The 180 SSP seemed to promise great things, but unfortunately the accuracy is mediocre and it shoots to a whole different place as all my other loads do. The 180 XTP rocks in the accuracy department, and the 200 gr FTX is much better thab the SSP also.
NOTE: I have NOT done any work yet to try to improve the 180 SSP performance; I haven't given up on it, I just have a lot of irons in the fire and haven't got back to that bullet in that cartridge yet.

bucco921 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2012, 02:59:24 PM »

I backed the load down to 26 grains and increased o.al. and loosened up on the crimp. Final 3 shot group at 100 had 2 touching and the third about 3\8" above the other 2.

Bullet is seated just below the cannelure leaving it exposed right as it begins.

petemi · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2012, 09:11:51 PM »

Pete

Rodland · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2012, 12:11:05 AM »

I would call that good enough for huntin.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2012, 04:50:55 AM »

Quote from: bucco921 on July 09, 2012, 12:14:05 PM

Has anyone else had issues with the 180 ssp in their maxi? I cant get them to shoot good enough to even feel comfortable hunting with. I took the forearm off, dried latch etc, still no luck. One shot goes 3 inches high, next in the bullseye and then one 3 inches low. I'm stumped. Lock up is tight, no lateral movement. Ive got bad luck with 35 cal handis..... 28 grains of aa1680 seated to the cannelure.

Looks like you discovered a acceptably accurate loading, Good.

It was simply a matter of trying more than one loading... and a rather hot loading at that...

None of my own maxis shoot that loading well either...its too hot for my guns. I have been shooting the maxi nearly since it was introduced. I remember a conversation with our own Bill about my posting the vel I was reaching. His argument was I had no pressure equiptment to test the safety of my loadings. He is and was correct. My loadings where a full two grains under your posted loading...

Like all experienced reloaders, I am confident in my loadings and knowing whats safe reguardless of manuals listings. MOST of the time I find the printed data is very close to max in my guns. SOMETIMES my loading exceed posted manuals max loadings. I know that they are safe for my gun and I shoot them. I don't post them and I don't allow them to be fired in other firearms.

Crimping, or not as well as different powders and primers are all part of the alure of handloading. Building a loading thats better then what you can buy. With the Maxi its simply becoming the only way to "feed" a maxi chambered gun. Sometimes you can throw together a recipe and get a winner accuracy and velocity wise. But everytime I have had this happen I found that I was rewarded with a firearm that shot most loadings very well. I more enjoy the ones that I have to work with and spend time discovering the rite group of components to make it shoot.

The vast majority of maxi loaders have found that AA1680 powder and the 180g Hornady SSP bullet and a Rem SR primer are a great recipe in a maxi case. Some find a crimp improves things, others that it ruins accuracy. Still others like it just "off the rifling" while others still simply seat to the cannalure. SURE some will find other powders work better for there gun, Some will like CCI primers, but the bullet... It's bearing surface makes it do its "thing". With pistol bullets, there all plain base, so weight will change bearing surface and be determinant on rifling twist. We know the 1:14 is a good twist for nearly all 357/358dia and weight offerings, reguardless of velocity. SO, having a SSP that will not shoot (BUT other loadings shoot well) I say the reason is most likely the amount or brand of powder and/or primer combo...
Hence my comment of your trying one loading and procaliming that the SSP will not shoot in your gun... I suggest you try different O.A.L. (Seating depths) then different powder weights and crimping and not. Crimping is used for two purposes, bullet retension IE durability and consistant powder burn. Some powders really respond well to a firm crimp. AA1680 has proven NOT to "need" a crimp. BUT also it has NOT proven to be a problem if you do. Again every gun is different.

Good luck with the Maxi its proven a quite capable caliber and I like it.

CW

bucco921 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2012, 10:26:14 AM »

I appreciate all the info and yes I normally try as many powders and seating depths etc as I can. I had just never had a gun shoot that bad from a 2 grain difference in powder. Ive experienced it using 2 totally different powders. Generally in my load developing experience(which isnt as extensive as many of you guys) I generally get a powder bullet combo that will shoot better than others and I tweak from there. I went off accurates latest data which calls for a max charge og 30 grains. I found in my gun(sb2) i could get to 29.5 with no visible signs of excessive pressure. At 30 grains I got mildly flattened primers. So that being said I dont think I was "proclaiming" anything, I was simply asking for suggestions. As far as me posting my "hot" loads its still a full 2 grains below powder mfgs published max. I did my part and worked up from minimum checking for pressure signs.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 16, 2012, 10:37:31 AM »

Congrats, sounds reasonable to me.

Tim

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

Quote

357 Maximum-T/C
Barrel:10" ■ Twist: 1-18.75" ■ Primer: Win WSP ■ Bullet Diameter .357"
These loads and round configurations cannot be used in standard handguns revolvers etc. It is intended
only for barrels that has been adapted to accept the much longer COL = Cartridge Overall Length
For longer barrel lengths add to the velocity(ca): 14":+9%/+150Fps 20": +18%.+300Fps
5744 180 HDY HP-XTP 20.0 1,517 22.2 1,704 39,775 2.025
5744 180 HDY SSPB 22.2 1,638 24.7 1,824 39,825 2.350
5744 200 HDY FTX 21.1 1,532 23.5 1,707 39,565 2.500
1680 180 HDY HP-XTP 25.5 1,724 28.3 1,884 39,500 2.025
1680 180 HDY SSPB 27.0 1,692 30.0 1,850 27,470 2.350
1680 200 HDY FTX 27.0 1,670 30.0 1,837 35,810 2.500
Italics = Compressed loads

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2012, 10:58:10 AM »

Bucco921,
As I said, I am glad you have found a loading thats working for you!

Also I mentioned data is there as a guide, experience and knowledge will tell you whats safe in your own gun.

My "proclaiming" comment is in responce to your first posting. If you re read the post, (Remembering we only know whats written) its sounds alot like you loaded a 180G Hornady SSP on top of 28 gr of powder, seated it to the cannalure but did not get good accuracy... It really is a excellent proforming bullet, both on game and with accuracy. I have been shooting it in my Herrett and Maxi since Hornady offered it!

Good luck,
CW

bucco921 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:36:50 AM »

No hard feelings cw, I just got a a lil ruffled thats all.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2012, 12:13:55 PM »

Quote from: bucco921 on July 16, 2012, 11:36:50 AM

No hard feelings cw, I just got a a lil ruffled thats all.

The "written" word can be tougher to get the authors true meaning across...

Peace, CW

bucco921 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2012, 12:21:03 PM »

Very true. In hindsight my first clue shouldve been the crimp. When I first fit the barrel all my "pressure test loads" were fired uncrimped with mushroomed ssp's( i hadnt modified seating stem yet) and my groups were still around 2" Other tests loads were with berrys 158 gn plated bullets no crimp which shot very well i must say

togojeff · « **Reply #25 on:** September 06, 2012, 07:11:00 AM »

Quote

The "written" word can be tougher to get the authors true meaning across...

You ain't kidding....seen more misunderstandings because of this on internet forums
than I can count.

Congrats on finding your "sweet spot" bucco, wish I could say the same with my maxi,
but I am having a heck of a hard time finding 180SSP's or AA1680 up here!

petemi · « **Reply #26 on:** September 08, 2012, 12:55:46 AM »

Quote from: Jason F on July 09, 2012, 01:47:54 PM

That was on sb2 frame, so i didn't worry about a little extra pressure being so close to rifling with bullet

I too like to load them long. That is one of the main reasons all my pistol caliber Handis are on SB-2 frames.

Quote from: Doublebass73 on July 10, 2012, 01:07:40 PM

Lil'Gun works well for me with that same bullet.

Being unable to find 1680 locally and too cheap to pay a hazmat on a small order, I tried Lil' Gun. Superb. Accuracy remained the same at a chronyed velocity of 2150 fps.......hand in glove with .35 Remington.

Pete

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 08, 2012, 04:26:55 PM »

Quote

Being unable to find 1680 locally and too cheap to pay a hazmat on a small order, I tried Lil' Gun. Superb. Accuracy remained the same at a chronyed velocity of 2150 fps.......hand in glove with .35 Remington.

Pete

My local dealer stopped carrying Accurate Arms powders but after trying Lil'Gun in the Max I don't think I need to worry about it

watkibe · « **Reply #28 on:** September 18, 2012, 06:39:06 PM »

Did a little load development work with the 180 SSP, not in the Maxi, but in the 35 Rem. Adjusted powder charge by 1/2 grain and carefully set COAL according to my bullet jump gauge measurements, and 3 shot groups went from 4-5 inches strung vertically to 3 touching in a horizontal line 13/16ths long. So I know the bullet will do it.
In the Maxi I get 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups, sometimes bigger but never smaller. Maybe I oughta measure that barrel and the 180 SSP bullet and set COAL too; play with powders and charge weights a little too.

hitman54 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 19, 2012, 03:46:37 AM »

Here is something to think about. Neck tension. If you do not have proper neck tension, no amount of crimp will overcome the problems that will occur. You will have erratic ignition which will cause groups to be all over the target. I've put expanding plugs in the drill press and sanded them down a little to get better neck tension. Just a thought.